The Saban Effect

by Richard Pittman on Nov 5, 2008 6:14 AM CST in Football Comment 22 comments

LSU's relationship with former coach Nick Saban is, shall we say, complicated. It is definitely true that he pushed LSU into the modern era of football by upgrading facilities, upgrading recruiting strategies, and modernizing our schemed. Then, of course, he left us and few scant years later ended up at a rival school we play every year, turning up at our high schools to talk about how he's going to do for his new school what he had done for his old school, and about how all those great players LSU had were recruited by him, don't you know.

There's been lots of discussion about why some LSU fans dislike Nick Saban. I don't hate the guy, because he brought us a lot of success, success which has turned out to be sustainable over time. But if you're looking for the reason why many LSU fans have taken a sour turn on Coach Saban, it comes down to the old standby question, "What have you done for me lately?"

Lately, Nick Saban has done everything he can to raid the building blocks of the LSU program to claim its raw materials for himself, so that he could use it as key pieces to build his new programs. Despite his recent talk about how this particular game is about the players and not the coach, when he first got to Alabama he did everything he could to make LSU's success all about him, and therefore tear down the program he helped build.

When he was hired, he publicly took credit for LSU's then-current success, and deliberately used it to go into Louisiana high schools to try to recruit the best Louisiana players to Alabama. He deliberately targeted players that were committed to LSU, and deliberately tried to sway them by explicitly taking credit for where the LSU program was. He didn't do this to Georgia recruits or to Florida State recruits. He did it to ours, as if he was deliberately targeting us to be his first meal. I can't say that my fellow LSU fans are unreasonable in taking offense.

Kyle King and schexyoung can express confusion about what the deal is, but that's it in a nutshell. Yes, he helped build us up, but now he's trying to tear us down, and he's using his former status as our program-builder to do it. I don't see why it's so hard to understand that.

So far, he hasn't really taken anything from us, but the intent has been there.

I could also go on about how he constantly flirted with jumping ship to the NFL, leading to problems at LSU, including a very subpar recruiting year in 2002. I could talk about his decision to voluntarily leave the NFL job he then got, after only two years, to take on a job at a rival school. I could also talk about how the announcement was timed to coincide with (and steal the thunder from) LSU's 2006 Sugar Bowl contest with Notre Dame (which I realize took place in the calendar year 2007, but that's beside the point).

Anyway, yes Nick Saban did a lot for LSU. He left the program much better than he found it (but let's also give credit to Gerry Dinardo, who also left the program much better than he found it). The program is definitely stronger now than it would be had he never been there.

But make no mistake about it. Nick Saban will do anything and everything he can to take that away from us, and as a former LSU coach, he was and is in a uniquely strong position from which to try it. Sure, every Alabama coach will and rightly should try to nip a little of the flesh off of LSU, and LSU should do the same, but Saban can more effectively than most try to unspool the thread here at LSU, because he is to some extent (though less so than he is often given credit for) the one who threaded it.

Comments

"steal the thunder from LSU's 2006 Sugar Bowl contest with Notre Dame"

are you freakin’ serious?? so it didn’t have anything to do with when the nfl season ended??

this post has a real junior high feeling to it. i would have thought winning a bcs championship with miles would have meant everyone could move on. guess not.

by gerry dorsey on Nov 5, 2008 7:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

How are we supposed to "move on" with the guy who is actively trying to wrap his jaws around out throat?

Richard Pittman

by Richard Pittman on Nov 5, 2008 7:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that's more than a little dramatic...don't you think??

all i know is i see other situations in sports all the time where a coach/player leaves a team for whatever reason (more money, to pursue a championship, a new challenge, etc) , and yet when he returns (generally with the intention of beating his old team) he is almost never vilified the way saban is in baton rouge. i could see it if he left lsu to go straight to alabama, but given the scenerio (improving lsu’s program by leaps and bounds, going to miami before alabama, etc), i think everybody needs to settle down.

by gerry dorsey on Nov 5, 2008 8:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Finally!

With all the talk that has been going on about Saban, it is good to finally see someone who can put it all in perspective. Richard, what an outstanding explanation of the issue.

I think we, as LSU fans, have every right to appreciate what Saban did for the program while at the same time having “hard feelings” about his attempts to use his previous status in an attempt to disrupt our recruiting efforts.

Again, Pittman, thanks for explaining the “Saban” issue in a logical and only slightly emotional, way.

Facts speak for themselves, they just sometimes need a little translation.

by lawildbull on Nov 5, 2008 8:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Can you say for sure

That if Tennessee hired Dennis Franchione tomorrow (assuming he hadn’t ran Texas A&M into the ground and UT would actually consider this) that there wouldn’t be a little bitterness on the part of Alabama fans? After all, he didn’t leave YOU for Tennessee did he? Surely the oh-so-rational Alabama fan base doesn’t hold a grudge, right? (or throw bricks through coach’s windows — but I digress)

You really expect anybody to believe you’d give him a standing O on his return?

by Geauxstwriter on Nov 5, 2008 8:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

You are right...to an extent

No Alabama fan would be praising Franchione ever, but I agree with what gerry wrote. The hatred for Saban is a special sort of hatred, and has a lot of irrationalness to it as well. For example:

I could also talk about how the announcement was timed to coincide with (and steal the thunder from) LSU’s 2006 Sugar Bowl contest with Notre Dame (which I realize took place in the calendar year 2007, but that’s beside the point).

That quote has the feeling of paranoia. Nick Saban coached his last game as the Dolphins head coach on December 31st, and was hired as the coach on January 3rd. He met with Mal Mooore (Alabama AD) on January 1st. My guess is that had a lot more to do with the timing of the decision than when LSU was playing in the Sugar Bowl. Does anyone really think that if Miami’s season had ended sooner, that Saban would not have left the job sooner?

As for Saban taking credit for the players that were on the team that won the BCS title. Would anyone really expect him not to use that as a selling point? Those are past performances that were very successful. If it is any consulation to LSU fans, some people think Mike Shula should get credit for “all these great recruits that he left Saban with,” so it goes both ways. I am sure Shula will talk about how he was mainly responsible for recruiting the 2008 Alabama team, if he were to ever get another interview (probably never going to happen).

I really enjoy this site, and think Richard is a great writer. I just think Richard is not able to put his emotions out of this subject, and understandably so to an extent.

Also, if possible let’s keep this from becoming a LSU/Alabama hate war.

by Kenny483 on Nov 5, 2008 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

first of all...

fran f’d bama 10 times harder than saban ever did lsu. and if you disagree you’re just ill informed.

as for how i’d feel about him returning as ut’s coach, i’m of the school of thought that if you don’t want to be a part of “our team” then don’t let the door hit you on the way out. and those feelings should only be strengthened if you have a coach that has maintained, if not increased your success. and lsu has both of those things in spades…miles wants to be there and all he’s done is kick ass since he’s been there. if fran went to ut and bama had saban, i would tell fran good luck with that, but i don’t like his chances.

in terms of my giving him a standing o…i’m not one to “boo” anything. i can’t think of a bigger waste of time than booing. so i’d probably just sit there wondering when the hell they’re going to kick off.

by gerry dorsey on Nov 5, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Can't we all just get along???

I’m thankful for all that Saban did for LSU. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. He did nothing illegal to hurt LSU when he left. It’s a free country….at least right now it is. He furthered his career when and where he wanted to do it. Good for him. If he were at LSU now trying to grab his share of recruits from Bama we would have no problem with it. Now we have Miles and I’m glad we do. Let it go, sit back, and enjoy the game. After all, it really is….just a game.

by Totally Spoil on Nov 5, 2008 9:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

So

LSU fans aren’t allowed to look at Saban and think “you’re not a Tiger, you’re Tiger bait?”

Just because they express that sentiment more vehemently than what you think is appropriate doesn’t change the fact that that’s the sentiment. You think they’d care as much if he weren’t at a school that LSU plays every year? Be realistic.

Who are you to say what’s the right way to express that feeling?

by Geauxstwriter on Nov 5, 2008 12:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

This post assumes that Saban still has some duty to LSU...

and frankly, he doesn’t. The players he came to LA to “steal” from you only wanted to play at LSU for Saban, not Miles. Don’t blame Saban for coming in and influencing a kid to play for Bama, blame your current coach for sucking at his job of recruiting.

Saban LEFT! Get over it! He doesn’t have some conspiracy to “tear you down”. I’ll give you a hint of what his “secret plan” is: IT’S CALLED WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES!

HE built up the program and won a championship, therefore, HE has a right to use HIS success to make money, recruit players, and further his career.

Please realize that the relationship is over and that Bama fans nor Saban are to blame for your situation.

by brandonh on Nov 5, 2008 1:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You are right

And the fans have the right to criticize/dislike him based on the decision he makes.

Dennis Franchione made the decision that was “right for him” too once upon a time. And there was NOOO animosity on the side of Alabama fans at all was there?

Don’t try to pretend that LSU fans are somehow odd to be angry at their former coach. Any other group of fans would act the EXACT SAME WAY.

by Geauxstwriter on Nov 5, 2008 1:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

there is a distinction...

Franchione left our program in shambles and Saban left your program on top. And even so, Bama fans could not care less about Fran then or now.

And that’s the thing here, any other group of fans would not act the same way. You all have anger towards someone who has almost no eternal effect on your situation. If your coach doesn’t win or if he doesn’t recruit the players, then it is totally on him.

In any case, I can’t wait for a great game on Saturday.

by brandonh on Nov 5, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if lsu fans are going to continually compare

saban leaving lsu to fran leaving bama, then you might want to learn the details of fran leaving bama. they couldn’t be more different.

by gerry dorsey on Nov 5, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why do you care what real or imagined slights fans obsess over?

Richard’s post is eminently reasonable, to the extent that he even intimates where others might not find it reasonable. He gives all proper respect to Saban and what he did for LSU, but tries to place into proper context why LSU fans like him have “soured” on Saban. Not hate, but soured.

Some of these reasons I share with him, some I don’t, but the general dislike of Saban emanates from the irascible and dismissive manner Saban publicly talked and continues to talk about the university, its football program, the fan base and the people of the state. It smacks of a tackiness and ungratefulness on his part.

I expect Saban to recruit in Louisiana and to use whatever selling points he can to get talent to Alabama and away from LSU, but to openly court media attention last season by belittling what Miles has achieved with the program makes him look small.

For fans of other teams to come up with comparisons in order to rationalize away an LSU fan’s dislike of Saban is a probably fruitless task. Part of it, perhaps most of it, is irrational. Of such stuff is fandom made. But that doesn’t make it entirely without merit.

The extent to which certain members of the fan base feel especially passionate about Saban varies. Almost all fans I know have exactly Richard’s attitude: we appreciate the work he did for our team, but he’s gone a little overboard in acting like a prick towards LSU ever since he’s come back to the SEC. That may be the way he competes, but we don’t have like it.

PS: Any one of us who follows the he said/she said of recruiting closely has no recourse to say something “has a junior high feel to it.” We all passed that threshold long ago.

What a picture of domestic tranquility... Hemlock on the hearth and my wife feeding the piranha.

by Man Mountain on Nov 5, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

a quote from saban regarding lsu just 48 hours ago...

“Those were very special times, special memories, and we have a lot of great friends there.”

what a prick!!

i’m not going to sit here and debate whether or not the reasons for the hate are right or wrong b/c i think the whole thing is ridiculous. in the end all that matters are wins and losses anyway. i have all the faith in the world that if saban wins a few in a row against the tigahs he may still be hated, but much of that hatred will have shifted to your current coach.

for what its worth, i follow recruiting for all of 72 hours in february and that’s about it b/c that’s really all that matters. so can i still maintain possession of my “junior high” comment?? thanks.

by gerry dorsey on Nov 5, 2008 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I repeat: Why do you care what real or imagined slights fans obsess over?

i’m not going to sit here and debate whether or not the reasons for the hate are right or wrong b/c i think the whole thing is ridiculous.

Agreed. Yet you have.

What a picture of domestic tranquility... Hemlock on the hearth and my wife feeding the piranha.

by Man Mountain on Nov 5, 2008 6:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i don't know that i care

so much as i don’t understand. i’m not lying awake at night or anything. and after all this i don’t understand it anymore than when i got here. oh well. as i said, in the end it will all be determined by wins and losses. if the tigahs lose on saturday, the anger will no longer be directed at the saban…at least not for another 12 months.

by gerry dorsey on Nov 5, 2008 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Man O man...

are you guys crazy or what? First of all, don’t flatter yourself in saying that Saban is out to destroy LSU. He does not have time for that shit, aight? So he has ties to a lot of the local HS coaches, and let’s face it, a lot of talent comes from your state and there really is only one major program fishing hard there. Saban is going to recruit the players he needs, he doesn’t recruit to “destroy” LSU, don’t kid yourself. I won’t even mention the claims that his intent was to steal thunder from LSU to announce taking the bama job. I mean seriously, wake up. Don’t mean to be a bama homer, but get real with some of this stuff. Good luck this weekend and Roll Tide!

by BigChief on Nov 5, 2008 2:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I love it when people write in redneck.

I have NO IDEA what NS’s intentions are and I dont know if he has treated lsu recruits any differently than others, but if I were head coach of alabama, the first thing I would do is shore up alabama preeminence as the preferred in-state college. Check. The next thing I would do is look to get kids out of a talent rich Louisiana. Why go east and go against Meyer, Spurrier, and Richt when you can go west against Croom, Nutt, and Miles. If you take Miles out of that last group, there is a good chance at getting whomever you want.

I think Nick has all the time in the world my friend. He might not be looking to take down LSU due to malice, but he sure as hell could be looking to take it down out of ambition. If the man is anything, he is strategic.

by nepomo on Nov 5, 2008 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Every LSU fan sees this situation differenetly...

So it is not fair to make comments about “How LSU fans are reacting to Saban”. Personally I think Richard hit the nail on the head, but 90% of the fan base probably has a different opinion.

Next of all, why does this matter? LSU fans can hate on Saban for coaching against us (and whatever other conspiracy theories we want to believe), just like we can hate Tubbs for smoking on our field, just like we can hate Meyer for his negative recruiting of Tolliver and Peterson. Why do Bama fans need to justify why LSU hating Saban doesn’t make sense? College football fans don’t make sense! Ever!

If your buddy’s wife divorced him to leave him for another guy, then left that guy for the best man in your buddy’s wedding, would you try to tell him that it doesn’t matter because his wife originally left him for a guy he didn’t even know so the fact that she’s with his best man now shouldn’t matter? No, that would be dumb. So thank you Bama fans, we are aware of the circumstances of Saban landing at Bama.

LSU fans hate Saban. We will always hate Saban. There are now 3 certainties in life, Death, Taxes, and Saban being the most hated man in LA. Maybe Saban will leave Bama for Tennessee this year, and we can all get along, laugh about this, and hate him together. Until then, I don’t need a Bammer telling me how to think, nor should they feel obligated to do so.

by LSU Jonno on Nov 6, 2008 9:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs