Saban's Peculiar Reputation
There are no American soldiers in the Baghdad Airport. They have been overrun by Iraqi forces, who are beating them back to the Kuwait line.
I know a lot of LSU fans are really hung up on this Nick Saban thing, and I admit I found it very peculiar that he ended up in Alabama, and I promise this will not be a Nick Saban-bashing blog, though I will give you my honest take on him.
And why am I giving you any take on him? I am an LSU Tiger fan and a football geek living in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. I can't help but have my own perspective on the Nick Saban issue. I have a lot of thoughts on him, but going into all of them is beyond the scope of this particular blog entry. Today, I'm going to talk about his reputation as a disciplinarian.
When Saban first got here, a lot of Bama fans identified team discipline as an area of concern for the team, and were excited to have a guy like Saban come in and turn these things around. My immediate thought was, "Why do they think Saban will turn around a discipline problems?" What in his history suggests that Saban is a strict disciplinarian who can get everyone on a team acting right?
When Saban arrived at LSU, discipline was not really among LSU's biggest problems. We had a problem with fractured team social dynamics, but not really a problem with lawlessness, any more than any other school. Saban didn't really do all that much about the fractured social dynamics, but the problem went away as soon as Josh Booty left (not that it was necessarily his fault, but his leaving helped).
My understanding is that Saban's approach to discipline was two-fold:
- Let the position coaches handle it, and
- If they're staying academically eligible, staying out of jail, and getting to practice on time, I really don't care.
Under Saban, LSU was not exactly an undisciplined team, but we had our fair share of problems. One that comes to mind is when former LSU defensive end Melvin Oliver was arrested for domestic violence for allegedly beating up his girlfriend. He remained with the team and went on to have a productive career.
While Saban was at LSU, there were a lot of rumors that he tolerated a lot of casual drug use. Now, none of this is a deal-breaker for me. I personally think his approach to discipline worked really well at LSU, because there wasn't really a big discipline problem that had to be solved. After all, what business is it of a football coach isn't an angel off the field, so long as he stays academically eligible, stays out of jail, and gets to practice on time. Saban felt that outside of those things, a player's life was his own, and I can't criticize that.
Then of course Saban left LSU for the Miami Dolphins, where he embraced Ricky Williams. Then he came here to Alabama, and I heard all this stuff about how tough and strict Saban was. It confused me. I didn't know where it came from.
Finally, I figured it out. Saban is an unfriendly guy. He frowns a lot. He yells a lot. He's not very pleasant to be around (though I have heard that in his private life away from football, he is quite a nice guy and good to be around, but when it comes to football, he is all business). Fans saw the frowning and the yelling, and concluded from that that Saban is a strict disciplinarian. It just isn't true.
This is in no way to suggest that the problems that have plagued the Bama team in the last year and a half are his fault. They aren't, but I think fans have unreasonable expectations of him, because they have misjudged his character, and that is leading him to some problems and leading them to some disappointments.
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Thanks Saban!
I have heard and read since Saban left every opinion you can imagine. Most people hate him for leaving LSU. I am not one of them. I’m thankful for what he did while coaching the Tigers. He obviously wanted to leave to try something else. Good for him. At the time I hated to see him go but if that’s what he wanted to do and thought it best for him and his family then best of luck to you buddy. We are a better team and a strong national power because he was here. Like him or hate him, agree or disagree with him he did what he had to do for him. I wish Nick the best and would shake his hand and thank him for coming to LSU if I had the opportunity.
If Les would have left last year the haters would be out in force. I would have been disappointed but ready to move on and see what the next guy can do. In my 46 years of life one thing I’ve learned is nothing stays the same.
Not saying you’re a hater Richard. :-)
by Totally Spoil on
Jul 1, 2008 2:38 PM CDT
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Yes
The Saban/LSU pairing was a perfect marriage. Saban did a lot for LSU, but don’t mistake the other side of that. LSU did a lot for Nick Saban. It really was, for five years, a perfect pairing of coach and program. LSU’s deficiencies were tailor-made for a guy like Saban to correct. We had outdated facilities, outdated strength and conditioning programs, and outdated recruiting policies. Saban modernized the LSU football program in a multitude of ways that LSU really really needed in order to be competitive.
But LSU gave Saban the chance to recruit blue-chip athletes with no real competition. It gave him the opportunity to mine fertile ground in Texas and Florida that had been previously untapped by us (how’s that for a mixed metaphor). It gave him an opportunity to just coach. He didn’t have to be all things to all people at LSU. At Bama he has to be the face of the program. He has to be publicly accessible. He has to have explanations for everything. He never had to do that at LSU. He just was expected to coach football. Not a lot of programs are that easily pleased, and Saban isn’t particularly good at the stuff other programs ask him to do.
Richard Pittman
by Richard Pittman on
Jul 1, 2008 8:32 PM CDT
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Also....
I think if Saban could do it all over again he wouldn’t have left LSU. He will NOT be able to recruit like he did in Louisiana and the surrounding area. Some would argue that he just signed the top class in the nation. With my limited knowledge I think some of that class is questionable but time will tell. Saban was a good match for LSU but I can say I like Les Miles personality better. I like his fire and his unpolished remarks. In almost every case of a coach leaving for another job he will be ridiculed and criticized. No one thinks these coaches should leave their beloved programs and I understand feeling that way but it is a no win scenario for the coach.
by Totally Spoil on
Jul 2, 2008 8:00 AM CDT
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LSU did more for Saban than vice versa
LSU is the only place he has had a high level of success as a head coach. If you look at that guys record and numbers alone, its really underwhelming. Until he has the same level of success somewhere else, there is only one logical deduction that can be made. The credit will remain LSU’s until he can duplicate his success elsewhere.
by RF on
Jul 2, 2008 8:10 AM CDT
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Discpline is predetermined
My sentiments exactly! One week Alabama blows out Tennessee, the next week Alabama loses to Louisiana Monroe! Now, let us look at that and compare it to Saban’s first year at LSU as you did to his first year at Alabama.
Saban was 8-4 at his first year at LSU, but only 7-6 at his first year at Alabama. What does that really mean? Well, it means that Saban won one (1) more game his first year at LSU than he did at Alabama. (it also means that he played one (1) more at Alabama).
One can point out LSU’s schedule that year and come up with a defense similiar to what you pointed out! LSU had a tougher schedule and refrained from losing to the cupcakes; and didn’t struggle against any of them them either.
However, they did lose to UBA that year. Alabama’s shirt-tail relative, who had only recently became a member of the same division.
The next year Saban won the SEC and a Sugar Bowl. I must also, out of an abundance of caution, point out, that MSU was a much worse team in 2000 than they were in 2007, and they will be in 2008. Ole Miss is better as well.
After all of the above has been taken into account, I must point out that Alabama’a recruiting years leading up to this one, were under major NCAA sanctions. Look it up! We had/have less talent now than Saban inherited from Jerry DeNardo. Shula rolled the dice on some guys. We have some bad wood! It’s almost gone!
Now, the guy that held up people at gunpoint (Jeremy Elder), was in-fact, a Saban recruit. Therefore, one can’t blame the whole discipline problem (or lack thereof), on Shula. Now that we have that out of the way…..
No one has ever said that all of the rumors or talk you have ever heard about Saban and discipline, in regards to what he will do at Alabama, were off-the-field scenarios.
I’m a former Marine. In the Marine Corps, what one learns in-training prepares that man for life. If a Marine doesn’t make it “in the field”, his character is not such that he will make it in life.
In short, the Marine Corps will make one and break the other. That, my friend, is Saban’s philosophy. That is part of the reason why he wants to visit recruiting targets himself. Saban want’s to see what that person is full of!
Discipline? Well, whether one posses that trait or not is something that is told on the battle field. If one performs well there, one will perform well in that person’s personal life too. Thank you for listening
by BAMAHAMMA on
Jul 2, 2008 9:08 PM CDT
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That is just about the craziest rant I’ve read in a while. It seems to be in response to some other post.
Richard Pittman
by Richard Pittman on
Jul 2, 2008 11:06 PM CDT
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In the light of morning, I read this again
It still sounds like a strange rant, but some things need to be pointed out:
One can point out LSU’s schedule that year and come up with a defense similiar to what you pointed out! LSU had a tougher schedule and refrained from losing to the cupcakes; and didn’t struggle against any of them them either.
Uh, no one talked about Bama’s schedule or LSU’s schedule. No one. This was the paragraph that confused me the most in your post.
I must also, out of an abundance of caution, point out, that MSU was a much worse team in 2000 than they were in 2007, and they will be in 2008. Ole Miss is better as well.
Actually, in 2000, both MSU and Ole Miss went to a bowl game. MSU to the I-bowl and Ole Miss to Music City.
We had/have less talent now than Saban inherited from Jerry DeNardo.
This is not what I was hearing a year ago. I heard about how Saban was able to win at LSU with less talent than was available to the current team. However, it is true that Saban inherited good talent from Gerry Dinardo. The nucleus of that 2001 team that won the SEC came from Gerry Dinardo, who may not have been a great coach, but who made some strides with the program and left it a lot better than he found it. Dinardo left players like Dominick Davis, LeBrandon Toefield, Josh Reed, Trev Faulk, Brady James, Ryan Clark, Damien James, and Rohan Davey for Saban to build around. I once went back and listed all the future NFL players who Saban inherited from Dinardo and it was quite a surprising number. I’m not going to go back and find it, so you’ll just have to trust me.
Of course, this undercuts your implication above that Saban will really turn things around the 2nd year. Our program improved significantly in its first year under Nick Saban. We went from a losing team to a winning team. The 1999 team was 3-8. The 2000 team was 8-4. Nick Saban rightly gets a lot of credit for that, but part of the reason it occurred is because the talent was there.
Richard Pittman
by Richard Pittman on
Jul 3, 2008 6:10 AM CDT
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I think the biggest...
...reason Alabama fans think Saban will restore discipline in Tuscaloosa is the simple fact he’s a great recruiter and is going to get kids that are already of the mindset that they have to work hard, do the right things, and stay out of trouble to win. That sort of attitude was/is almost completely gone from Alabama, so expecting a fresh group of players that aren’t used to a lax culture and fully believe they can do whatever they want and get away with it to cut down on those problems is a fairly realistic proposition.
by Todd on
Jul 3, 2008 10:06 AM CDT
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