Settle Down Beavis
by Richard Pittman on Oct 12, 2009 6:34 AM CDT
in Football
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Yes, I had juvenile tastes in television when I was younger. Heck, I'd watch B&B today if it came on and my wife would let me.
Yesterday, I read one "fan" comment that, "Jordan Jefferson looks like a worse Marcus Randell [sic]. I hear Chris Garrett is the next Matt Flynn. Let's give him a shot." Another comment was that Jordan Jefferson looks like a special education student.
I don't think I need to say just how appalling those statements are. The first one, you almost have to wonder if the person is even aware of what that sounds like. (For the record, I think Chris Garrett could be better than Matt Flynn, but Flynn also did not really get his chance until his 5th year, while Garrett is a true freshman). The second one is simply overwhelming in its brazen lowness.
This has long been one of the difficulties in covering LSU athletics. It seems like every time something goes wrong, the LSU equivalent of a few thousand Trogdor the Burninators come out from under and rampage through the countryside. I always wonder if other schools have these types of fans too.
And it's not a new thing. It's not a product of being spoiled as a fan base. The exact same sorts of things would happen 15 years ago during the Hallman era. As I am not a fan of other schools, I can't really say if this is an LSU thing or a college athletics thing. I suspect it's a college athletics thing, but I do not know for sure.
Yes, it was a poorly played game for our offense. No, Jordan Jefferson did not play particularly well. And it is correct that it is difficult to mark any improvement in his play from the beginning of the season to now. Do I think another QB should be given a chance? I'm not sure on that yet, but I am definitely thinking about it. Jefferson's play wasn't all bad. He had a good completion percentage, which would have been reduced if he'd thrown the ball away when he needed to. He had some nice runs. Except for that miserable 3rd quarter, his play could be considered unspectacular but competent. The third quarter, not so much on that second adjective. (Grammar is for snobs).
My point is, fans should keep criticisms of players constructive. It's a little different when talking about coaches, who are grown men making tons of money to do what they do. Players are working hard, putting their bodies and their health on the line for comparatively little. Keep your comments above-board when talking about a player. When talking about a coach, just remember that they have families and loved-ones too, but I am also mindful that coaches know exactly what they're getting into when they sign on for the coaching life. It's hard to say the same of an 18-year-old kid who signs scholarship papers.
One of the things I like about the little website we've built up here is that our readers are above that sort of thing. Even CFB, whose relentless pessimism drives some people a little crazy in the game threads, at least keeps his comments on a plain significantly higher than what I see elsewhere, and isn't making his points through personal insults. While I don't advocate relentless pessimism as a way of life, if you're going to do it, you should at least do it right, which CFB does.
That's just to cite one example.
So yes, let's discuss the issue of Gary Crowton's job security. It's hard to say last year was a success for his offensive system, and this year the offense has looked downright pitiful at times. All the while, we are wondering why a dynamic player like Russell Shepard is getting so little playing time. On the other hand, he is just 2 years removed from a national championship season in which the offense was outstanding.
The difference, as far as I can tell, is that when Gary Crowton got here he had an experienced quarterback with NFL potential. The last two years he has had inexperienced quarterback with potential that is yet to be determined. I think in both 2008 and so far in 2009 he has been unable to effectively compensate for having inexperienced quarterbacks. Last year, he asked Jarrett Lee to do way too much and it got him into trouble. This year, for whatever reason, the offense has been unable to accentuate Jordan Jefferson's strengths, which are his athleticism and his arm strength.
I am open to the idea of making a change at the end of the year, but I am undecided on the matter. Except for the wide receivers, it is hard to point to any unit of the offense that hasn't struggled to maintain a high level of play so far this season. Then again, this is a team that is 5-1 and the only loss was a reasonably close loss to one of the 5 best teams in the country. The second half of the year could go either way at this point. We have winnable/losable games all through the back half of the schedule. If the offense improves, the sky is still the limit for this team. If it doesn't, this team could be looking to the Independence Bowl. Or anything in between.
We just don't know at this point.
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It just looks like to me............
that if you look at the last 6 games and just erase the defense from them it looks like the same offense being called in those bad situations week in and week out. I know teams run the same offense all season with a few wrinkles thrown in here and there, but I just see the same execution on the same plays. Please someone any one tell Crowton and Miles we are by no means a Power running team and we run better out of the spread, Period!
For the most part I really don’t blame the Players for the lack of success on offense I blame the coaches for their inability to understand and recognize what a team does well vs what the personal doesn’t. The Offensive coaches keep trying to put a round peg (spread Offensive Team) into a square hole (a power running game). On top of that just the play calling makes you scratch your head example, 4th down and 2 or 3 we run shotgun and the WR’s run 10yrd routes to get 2 or 3 yards.
At this point I just am watching the game to see the Defense play at a high level and hope that the Offense can muster up a drive or two to help the D out for us to win the game 25 points wins the game for us every week. Being ranked 109 out of 120 teams is inexcusable. As I said above its not the talent because they make plays when put in the position to do so but it also works in reverse when they are put in the positions that the players have this season to fail that’s exactly what has happened due to bad play calling.
I really feel for the SRs on the team because the coaches are throwing away a good opportunity the team has great leadership players that are willing to sacrifice for the team and freshman that are following the lead of the upperclassman all the ingredients for a run at the SEC championship. Oh well, I love my Tigers and I just hope the coaches wake up and lead these players to victory for the rest of the season.
"It is What It Is"
Its never too early to completely panic for LSU fans apparently
The second half of the year could go either way at this point.
We lost to the best team in college football for the last two seasons in a close game.
What’s left on the schedule. We will be favored to beat Auburn. Tulane is a certain win. Alabama looks like a certain loss right now. Tech is a certain win. Ole Miss is a mess right now, we will be favored to win that game. Arkansas is getting better but we will probably be slight favorites in that game. So it looks like a 10 win season and a trip to a New Years Day Bowl, maybe even a BCS bowl is obtainable.
If every coaching staff in America got fired after losing to Tebow and Florida, there would be job openings at every SEC school the past two years.
Everyone needs to take a week off and gain a bit of perspective here.
again.....
we are ranked 109 out of 120 teams that didn’t happen because we lost to the best team in the country. Its now a trend and needs to be addressed are the games and wins you stated above will all result into L’s except for the gimme games.
"It is What It Is"
We are not ranked 109th
We are ranked 10th, and that’s the only thing that matters. I don’t care what our offensive production is if we’re winning. What did the Baltimore Ravens rank in offensive production the year they won the Super Bowl? Yes, it would be great to see better offense, but we are 5-1, ranked 10th in the country, and control our own destiny. We lost to the #1 team in the country. Again, we need to stop projecting future losses based on this game. We will be a different team next week. We also have a bye week to work out the offense, and even if we don’t, our defense is pretty dang good.
Here is why
http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/ncaa-m-footbl-fbs-team-total-defense.html
Bowl Subdivision (FBS) National Team Report
Total Defense
Year: 2009 Thru: 10/10/09 Minimum Pct. of Games Played
Rank Name Games Plays Yds Avg TDs Ydspgm Wins Loss Ties
67 Auburn 6 438 2216 5.06 20 369.33 5 1 0
95 Arkansas 5 342 1993 5.83 17 398.60 3 2 0
89 Tulane 5 327 1957 5.98 20 391.40 2 3 0
103 La Tech 5 351 2035 5.80 14 407.00 2 3 0
http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/ncaa-m-footbl-fbs-team-total-offense.html
Bowl Subdivision (FBS) National Team Report
Total Offense
Year: 2009 Thru: 10/10/09 Minimum Pct. of Games Played
Rank Name Games Plays Yds Avg TDs Ydspgm Wins Losses Ties
85 Miss 5 323 1706 5.28 17 341.20 3 2 0
94 Tulane 5 305 1643 5.39 10 328.60 2 3 0
Players or Coaches...
It seems like we have two camps making similar points… the rah rah go tigers camp, and those who, like myself, are glad we have won five of 6 so far, but who are really concerned about the trends that are clearly manifest with this team.
Jefferson’s play has not progressed much to date, but, he is brand new and Lee did not fare so well last year with similar experience prior to being forced into action. I wonder if we have just not gotten to the point where the Proverbial light comes on for Lee or Jefferson. What really bothers me can be illustrated by Jefferson’s inability to run the option properly. He still does not understand the QB role when running the option and that, to me, is a coaching issue.
It concerns me also that Crowton has abandoned Lee for what everyone concedes was an impossible situation for any freshman to have to deal with. That, to me, is a coaching issue. Lee has a year of experience; give him a chance to play. Lets see if the light has come on for him.
Beyond that, clearly the offensive line play is not what it was last year, but is improving. Personally I am unimpressed with Crowton’s play selection, use of available talent, and what I perceive to be a lack of a coherent offensive philosophy.
Agree/Disagree
What really bothers me can be illustrated by Jefferson’s inability to run the option properly. He still does not understand the QB role when running the option and that, to me, is a coaching issue.
Completely agree. I almost want us to completely scrap the option. Jefferson cannot run it properly.
It concerns me also that Crowton has abandoned Lee for what everyone concedes was an impossible situation for any freshman to have to deal with. That, to me, is a coaching issue. Lee has a year of experience; give him a chance to play.
Completely disagree. I detest musical quarterbacks. I supported Lee when he was the starter and you can go through the archives to see that I defended him to the bitter end. But Jefferson is the starter now and really hasn’t done anything to merit a benching. He needs to improve, but his problems seem extremely correctable. Our coahces should focus on correctinh Jefferson’s problems instead of rotating QB’s to find the hot hand.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com
What's special about the quarterback?
If there was a corner who was getting burned three times a game I don’t think anyone would say “you have to leave him in, you can’t play musical defensive backs!” Quarterback is obviously a little different, but I don’t think it’s that different.
One of my favorite quotes from Spurrier (who is famous for pulling QBs) was when some reporter grilled him about affecting his quarterback’s confidence. He said “Why doesn’t anyone ever ask my about my left guard’s confidence when I pull him out?”
by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 12, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
But it’s not like Jefferson’s getting repeatedly burnt. Most of his problems stem from simply not taking any risks. He needs to make better decisions, which only comes with playing time. This isn’t about confidence, it’s about scrapping the offense halfway through the season to accommodate a pocket QB. It reeks of panic.
I’ll repeat: Jefferson hasn’t done anything to merit a benching
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com
and your CB or LG don't affect every single other player on offense
Everything starts w/ the QB. No other position directly affects every other player nearly as much.
Look at Oregon a couple of years ago
I think it was the year they got stomped by BYU in the Vegas Bowl. They were flat out terrible because they couldn’t pick a quarterback. Leaf would come in for a series, then Dixon would come in for 2, then Leaf would be back in for a few, and so on. They had ZERO continuity, and it killed them.
funny you should use that example
who was the OC for that oregon team?
That's what I was just thinking actually
And then as soon as he leaves, Dixon explodes. Still, he has done good for us so far, and I think it’s still a little early to start calling for his head. Living in Utah, I’m well aware of what he did at BYU as well.
yeah
this blog post was floating around on another MB. you may have seen it, but it is pretty uncanny how accurate it is of the LSU offense with crowton.
http://www.picklewagon.com/2007/01/18/lsu-fans-will-suffer-because-of-gary-crowton
Do not get me wrong, I want to see the offense improve also
I just wanted to point out we play some teams at home that are in the bottom of national total defense. I think that will go a long way in curing some of the bad offense numbers.
I do not share your pessimistic viewpoint friend
that is far from the truth my friend. I am and will be supportive of the team and its efforts but I am stating fact.
Total Offense
5 Auburn
15 Arkansas
17 Alaebama
85 Mississippi
94 Tulane
88 Louisiana Tech
109 LSU
so that’s our remaining games Florida is ranked 6th after Saturday offensively. So, the sky is not falling its fact my friend that the 6th ranked Offense scored 13 on us and we put up a whopping 3 vs the #1 defense.
So, with that being said do you truly think that our 40th ranked defense will stop the above teams from scoring no less then 13? no they won’t. The defense will show up game in and game out but the O needs to show up is my point. Classify me how you will but the fact remains we are 109 of 120 and avg. 23.0 points a game where as our last 6 is avg.’ing 29.9 ppg. with only La tech and Tulane scoring less then our avg. and ole miss scoring only 1.0 more then us. So my thoughts are real you can look at it how you like I deal with facts.
And the fact that Tulane and La Tech is ranked higher then us in total Offense and not total points say they can at least move the ball we cant as well as the others.
So , My point is that the 109 ranked offense needs to shape up and score because everyone else will. I love my Tigers but the proof is in the pudding “my friend”.
"It is What It Is"
For the record...
..our Scoring Defense is ranked 14th in the nation. So I don’t think it is coming out of left field to feel that the defense can slow these offense down somewhat given our track record (and how it has held some prolific offenses down) while our offense can bounce back a little against some defenses ranked in the bottom half of the country.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com
The Run Option Sux...
Either run it right or scrap it. JJ is not a pocket passer. He spends more time looking at the on rushing linemen than going through his progressions. I say there must be a roll out PASS/RUN in the playbook or there should be. Look what it did for Crompton. Are you telling me he’s a better QB than JJ? Right now it’s the old round peg in a square hole as far the QB goes. JJ is the round peg, the game plan is the square hole.
the 6th ranked Offense scored 13 on us
So, with that being said do you truly think that our 40th ranked defense will stop the above teams from scoring no less then 13?
If we held Florda to 13 points, I think we can hold teams with offenses ranked lower than Florida to 13 points. But I think those teams are so bad on defense, that the offense will play much better.
I truly hope your right
with this week off I just don’t see it being as easy as we talk about it. We will be in every game bt I just think we lay to many eggs to think different right now. I’ll Rent your thouughts Nope before I ‘ll say I’ll buy them for now.
"It is What It Is"
Well if we struggle on offense against Auburn
I will probably panic about the offense also. Auburn game is at 6:30 PM. We got two weeks to rest up and try to iron out offensive problems. If we do not show significant offense improvements in that game, its time to evaluate Crowton’s future.
Right now what I see
Is that there doesn’t seem to be any particular offensive philosophy. Everybody’s jumping on the overly conservative bandwagon and how is going 3-out on three straight passes conservative?
The problem isn’t any particular philosophy — it’s that right now there doesn’t appear to be ANY philosophy.
Grab bag offense...
with a hole in the bag.
If we continue to play O at this level and have a few hiccups on D against any of our remaining SEC opponents we probably will lose the game. Bama quite possibly shuts us out. That’s quite a drop down. This is not panic, this is reality. We have earned the #109 ranking fair and square with consistent poor performance. Right now Jefferson is not even an adequate SEC QB. Do we now rate QB efficiency by failure to be booed off the field. Unfortunately that is coming if he keeps taking sacks and the staff does not address the QB problem. That’s sorry to say but it’s true.
Hope it changes but I was hoping the D would change last year too. I detect similar noises from the HC, talk about execution. To paraphrase John McKay, that might become an option for the offensive staff if things don’t improve.
Sometimes the only thing to do is
live with the fact that we are not the best team on the field—which is why everyone would have called a win an upset. Florida has ALL the ingredients for a championship, we don’t. Win the games you should win, and hope for the occasional upset. We’ve still got Bama coming up for that—the rest of the games we can/should win.
The coaches knew that they had to be careful because Florida didn’t need any help with extra possesions. You could tell that the idea was keep it close and win a grinder. And I have to agree with that approach. (Even Florida was in that mode—don’t give LSU anything to get the crowd ramped up—which I thought was brilliant by Meyer.)
With that in mind though, I would have liked to see a little more Scott, a little more designed roll-out runs for JJ just to keep the chains moving, and a little Shepard. I think we all want an explosive offense and the truth is, we still don’t have the kind of QB to do that! When you’re best options are a 19 year-old sophomore and a true freshman who is really not a QB yet, then we’ve got to face reality that a 10 win season would be an amazing accomplishment, and a national championship is not going to happen.
I've got a friend who is a Nebraska fan
He said that he was “disgusted” by the Nebraska v. Missouri game…a 27 -12 victory at Missouri against a top 25 team. There are naysayers at every college’s fanbase. And yes, when they won their National Championships, he was happy but hoping for more from his team.
by Gas_House_Gorillas on Oct 12, 2009 11:29 AM CDT reply actions
Let's see more of JL!!
JL should never have been benched. That was lousy to him given he was encouraged to take risks.
On the theory that he does have good game experience and I think would be a better pocket passer than JJ, let’s rotate JL in the game more!
Also, I’d like to see Jordan scramble to the outside and pass more.
Let’s accept that the tigers are not #1 this year, and pass MORE, including risky passes (yeah, let’s let the young QB’s learn by fire, but then back them up when they fail). PASS, PASS, PASS like crazy!
We should only PASS, PASS, PASS like crazy
if we’ve written off the rest of the season. I still think at least half the issues on offense are the O-line (running and pass protection).
And I’ll take issue with you on Lee’s “good” game experience. Those experiences seemed to crush him and ruin his confidence rather than give him more. He started to make more mistakes, not fewer, after the Florida game last year.
CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!
JL absolutely should have been benched
Do NOT go into some revisionist history BS. Whether he should play or not NOW is one thing, but he HAD to get sat down last year.
And technically, he didn't get benched, he got injured
He didn’t win the starting job back last spring or this fall, but he didn’t get benched last fall.
CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!
To Richard's first point
this kind of behavior is typical for not only college football fans but for fans of any sport at any level. And, really, the kinds of arguments don’t change that much.
One major problem is that the nature of sports is such that so much of what happens is the result of dumb luck, rather than anything that anyone — player or coach — has full control over, particularly as the skill level of all participants increases. What this means is that problems that have no necessary connection to larger trends in a team’s play have a greater part in the outcomes of games than problems that are connected to larger trends.
For example, a physicist recently argued in a book on sports and probability that in order to declare a statistically definitive winner in the World Series, (i.e. a winner with a base sample win rate that the average researcher would feel confident depending on) it would need to be roughly a best of 120 game series. Compare that to the ink being spilled right now by fans and writers talking about how the outcomes of the the best of 5 divisional series were so predictable if only we’d focused on X or Y.
The unsettling part about this circumstance is it that it means that even the most reasonable and logical sports fans among us are not significantly better off than those who sift through the tea leaves of sports cliches to make their arguments. Probably, we are significantly better off only if we recognize our limitations in what we can know definitively.
People, please. We're all frightened and horny, but we can't let some killer dolphins keep us from living and scoring
by Man Mountain on Oct 12, 2009 2:25 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
and that is why we don't predict the outcomes of games
Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.
by Richard Pittman on Oct 12, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
That's a great line about the world series
Do you know the name of the book
by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 12, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Leonard Mlodinow's
The Drunkard’s Walk
People, please. We're all frightened and horny, but we can't let some killer dolphins keep us from living and scoring
by Man Mountain on Oct 13, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Baseball is a completely different from football, though
Baseball you can have a dominant pitcher take over for a bad team, or a bad hitting team get hot, or a good hitting team have a bad day, someone makes an error, etc.
Those Fans Are Everywhere
Greetings from California, where we are in Year Two of our own version of the post-Hallman era. As I sit in the Rose Bowl week after week and listen to the idgit three rows behind me scream obscenities at the coaches after every single incomplete pass, I am reminded regularly that there’s one – okay, several thousand – in every bunch.
Somewhere in Las Cruces, NM are several dozen fans who are absolutely furious that their school isn’t going to win the national championship this year and absolutely convinced it’s the coaching staff’s fault.
It was a tight loss – especially when you consider Florida’s TD should have been called back – to the team with the nation’s best defense. Crowton has one national championship and one and a half questionable seasons behind him. By December, his fate should be very clear.
Louisiana born, California grown - bleed Blue and Gold, with a healthy dose of Purple mixed in.
by ucla84 on Oct 12, 2009 10:15 PM CDT reply actions
Everywhere
I live in Oregon, went to the UCLA at Oregon game last year on a pair of free tickets. The Duck fans were insufferable, almost as if they had paid specifically to yell at Neuheisel (sp?) whenever the Bruin offense was on the field and Bellotti/Kelly as soon as the Ducks took the field. I remember several Duck incomplete passes in the first half, resulting in 34 passing yards for the first 30 minutes. As soon as that stat flashed on the scoreboard (Oregon had the lead at the half, btw) everyone started booing. Keep in mind, Oregon’s offense last year ran all over everybody but the fans weren’t happy. The game was too close so it HAD to be the coach’s fault.
Ugh, some fans, Tiger, Duck, and everyone else too, make me wonder if maybe we love football a little too much. I hope I never get that bad.
The problems on offense...
starts with the puzzling performance of our O-line. We’ve shown flashes of success in running the ball, but pass protection has been spotty. Jefferson compounds it by hanging on to the ball too long.
as for Jefferson, I believe he’s regressing. it might be a case of him thinking too much. it also concerns me that he is reluctant to run at times – he’s also a little too quick to hit the sideline imo. just speculation, but i wonder if he’s too worried about getting injured and losing his spot on the team. he played with reckless abandon at the end of last season, and had success.
what we see in personnel each week is telling me that the coaches have seen certain things in practice (since spring) and they are rolling with those assessments. I don’t believe there is any question that the offense is scaled down under Jordan Jefferson. I’m not sure I sense the playbook opening up as the season goes along. This would be a cause of concern for me if my name is Les Miles. Implied in this is that the coaches feel this is their best chance of winning. Not Jarrett Lee, not more Russell Sheppard, and not Chris Garrett. That to me is also a big concern. this is too much slippage at QB for a top-flight program to accept if it wishes to stay a top-flight program. Alabama is not missing a beat this season, and I suspect Florida won’t next year after Tebow leaves.
Makes a Tiger fan truly appreciate how well Matt Mauck and Matt Flynn handled the QB position.
And for Man Mountain, a pretty brainy analysis/commentary of those who analyze and comment. However, not many physicists have actually played or coached organized sports let alone excel at it. If it were all so random, I doubt we could distinguish between Curly Hallman and Nick Saban.
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