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Roundtable #3

BlogPoll Roundtable time.

1. Mack Brown has won three out of the last four games in Dallas against OU. Meanwhile, Bob Stoops continues to pile up Big 12 trophies like NCAA inquiries. With the presumption that Mack will hang up his concho belt in the next two years in deference to the undeniable coaching force that is Will Muschamp, how does this year's Texas/OU game define Mack Brown's legacy? Texas wins and it's likely Pasadena bound. A loss would likely cement this depressing statistic: a 7th conference championships for OU vs one in 12 years under Mack Brown, which was delivered by some guy named Vince Young.

Short answer: It doesn't. 

Longer answer: Mack Brown's legacy is pretty secure.  He won a national title on the back of one of the greatest college football players ever.  He has guided Texas to soon-to-be nine straight 10 win seasons (Royal, by the way, only had 7 in his career at Texas).  He has rebuilt Texas into a national power, as I believe people have forgotten how much the Horns had slipped in the post-Royal years.  Yes, he's only won one conference title in his entire career, but if you can't appreciate what Mack Brown has done over his entire career, then that's your problem and not Mack's.  If you think Mack's legacy is on shaky ground, beating OU this week certainly won't change your mind.   

2. Flipping the lens, does another OU loss - 4/5 to Texas, 0/5 in the last five BCS bowls - permanently establish Big Game Bob as an overrated, overpaid coach disguised as an asshole? At least sweater vest is an all around nice guy. I just feel sorry for Tressel when he comes up short in big games. When Stoops does it I cackle in a spasmatic fit of primeval laughter. So the natives are getting restless in Norman, and by natives I mean the people that stole the land from the natives that actually lived there. Who needs to win a big game more: Bob Stoops, Jim Tressel, or Mark Richt?

Well, if we want to get technical, we all stole the land from the natives, so let's get off that high horse.  Texas has a pretty dirty past as well.  I know you're obligated to rip on the Sooners, but come on. 

The obvious answer is Richt.  Stoops and Tressel's problem is that they win their conference and then lose in a BCS Bowl.  As far as problems go, that's a good one to have.  Richt's problem is that his team lost by about a million points to Tennessee.  He also doesn't win as many conference titles as the other two, which speaks highly of his conference (SEC! SEC! SEC!).  If Tressel and Stoops don't win a big game, their fans will continue to murmur and count the conference titles.  If Richt doesn't win one, he'll be out of a job. 

3. Pick the game that glistens like no other on your remaining schedule. Why does it shine for thee? What portent does it hold at the seat of your BCS or Brut Sun Bowl altar?

Bama.  Bama.  Bama.

The natives are restless, but if LSU beats Bama, all is forgotten.  LSU (provided it beats Auburn beforehand, no gimme), if it beats Bama, will control its own destiny in the SEC race.  Beating Bama is the difference between thinking about the BCS and thinking about going to the Cotton Bowl (hey, I live in Dallas, I wouldn't mind that).  LSU fans now demand titles and you cannot win it without beating the Tide.

There's also some coach over there that some of our fans don't like very much.  I should look into that. Miles is unfortunate in that he will always be compared not to Nick Saban the Coach, but Nick Saban the Legend.  He's being compared to a mythic figure who never lost a game and who sent every player to the NFL.  Miles absolutely needs to shut these people up.  Also, the loss to Bama last year started an ugly tailspin to the season, something this program cannot afford for two straight seasons. 

4. NC State lost to Duke. Okie State lost to Houston who lost to UTEP who scored more points against the Cougars (55) than it gained in yards against Texas (51). Virginia lost to William & Mary. Not the school but to two motivated kids named William and Mary. USC lost to Washington. I only bring this up as a reminder because USC losses tend to fade from the voting conscious faster than a fresh set of downs for an LSU quarterback. (Which leads to another riddle: Does one become concussed in the mere presence of Tebow?) Vandy just lost to Army. The point is: Big upsets are hard to predict. Riddle us yours for the month of October.

One for each weekend, all picks correct or your money back!

Oct 17: Kansas at Colorado.  Kansas has been really unimpressive in building an undefeated record.  Colorado has looked even less impressive.  In fact, the Buffs have looked downright terrible, even getting blown out by Toledo.  Kansas can't afford to overlook anyone, but they are likely overlooking Colorado.

Oct 24: Oregon at Washington.  One week before the USC game?  It screams "trap game".

Oct 31: Georgia Tech at Vanderbilt.  Why not? 

5. In a top-heavy year where many of the favorites immolated themselves from national title contention early on, two teams now loom larger than the rest: Florida and Alabama. Assuming they face off in the SEC Championship game and the supremacy of their defenses continues to shroud their offenses in a cloak of 13-10 wizardry, and no other team seems quite as worthy by comparison (this is the SEC after all), should they get a chance to play again in January for a national championship? If not, what undefeated or 1-loss team would have the best positioning?

Absolutely not.  The idea of a rematch right after the SEC title game just seems absurd.  It's one of those things that could actually bring down the BCS.  So let's cheer for it. 

VT would be my answer, but their loss to Bama complicates things.  I doubt the pollsters would place VT ahead of Bama, meaning they are blocked from a VT-Florida title game.  On the other hand, the pollsters will likely vote to prevent a VT-Bama rematch.  It's a difficult position to be in.

How about this for a fun scenario?  LSU beats Bama and then loses to Florida again in Atlanta.  Then we get the Bama-Florida tilt in the national title game instead of the SEC title game.  Just throwing it out there. 

However, the best positioned team is USC.  The Pac-10 has had a solid season, unlike the Big 12, so a one loss champ from the west coast would probably fare the best in the polls and the computers.  Oregon's one loss is better, but USC will have the Ohio St win to hang their hat on.  But a one loss Oregon team certainly opens up the Boise Question, which may prevent their title chance. 

Or Texas can just win out and save us all the trouble. 

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What's going on today?

How am I supposed to pass the time at work if y’all don’t post anything all day?

by shelby924 on Oct 14, 2009 9:45 PM CDT reply actions  

I kidnapped Richard

He is decomposing in my locker.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Oct 15, 2009 7:18 AM CDT reply actions  

He has guided Texas to soon-to-be nine straight 10 win seasons (Royal, by the way, only had 7 in his career at Texas).

You can’t compare coaches of the present to past coaches by # of wins anymore. We play more games now, and the extra game is a cupcake. Compare losses.

by LSU Jonno on Oct 15, 2009 8:09 AM CDT reply actions  

OK - let's compare losses

Mack Brown has had 9 straight years of 3 losses or less, soon to be 10. He has lost 3 or less games ELEVEN of his 12 seasons at Texas. When he took over the job, Texas was three years removed from its last season of 3 or less losses, and had only had one such season in the past seven years. Brown built Texas back into a dominant power overnight.

Royal’s longest stretch of seasons with 3 losses or less is 7 years. Royal pulled the trick 14 times in his 20 years as coach. Also great.

The point is not that Mack is better than Royal, but that his record compares favorably to one of the absolute legends of the game. Acting like Mack Brown still has anythign to prove to anybody is absurd. His record speaks for itself.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Oct 15, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Mack Brown has one conference championship in his career. Seems a great coach would win more. While he has been successful at Texas, it is hard not to with the talent and facilities at his disposal.

by bcooper on Oct 15, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nick Saban only has 3

And that’s counting the 1991 MAC title he won at Toledo. If you want to talk resumes there aren’t very many that back up the coach’s reputation. At least Mack Brown has the wins.

by Billy Gomila on Oct 15, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Winning the Big 12 is harder than winning the SWAC

To win the SWAC, you only had to be the best of 8 teams. To win the Big 12, you have to be best of 12. Plus to win the SWAC you didn’t have to win a conference championship game — or beat Oklahoma. That all adds up in the long run.

If all Mack Brown had to do to win a conference championship was beat the Aggies, the Piggies, and the Baylor Bears, he’d have more than one.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 15, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Stoops has to beat the same teams and has several Big 12 titles. He already has more league titles in his 10 years of coaching than Mack will win in a career that most likely will span more seasons, some of which (early in his career) were against much easier competition.

by bcooper on Oct 15, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just so I'm clear

Your argument is that Mack Brown is not a great coach because Bob Stoops is a great coach? This is not a zero sum game. Can’t they BOTH be great coaches? Just throwing that out there.

Stoops has conference titles in his ledger, Brown has an absurd level of consistent 10-win seasons. Aren’t those both great accomplishments in their own right? And why are we arguing so hard about UT-OU on an LSU blog? I like Brown, but it’s not like he’s my coach or anything. I’m not emotionally invested in his success.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Oct 15, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

The point is Brown has not done what Stoops has done given the same or better opportunity. Yet he was called a “grat” coach. So there must be degrees of “great”.

The same can be said aout Miles and Meyer and it looks to only be getting worse.

by bcooper on Oct 16, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

The inverse is also true

Stoops has not accomplished what Brown has. There is more than one datapoint. We don’t rate coaches simply by looking at conference championships. We look at the whole record. Brown has a better win percentage, playing in the same conference. He has done better in bowl games (OU has one bowl win since 2002). And Stoops’ once huge head-to-head lead is down to 6-4.

I’m agnostic on who is a better coach. If pressed, I’d probably say Stoops, but this idea you have that they are on massively different levels is not one I can agree with.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Oct 16, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Stoops has 7 top 10’s and Brown 5 top 10’s over the same time period to cite another datapoint.

One last thing on Brown/Stoops. You are correct that Brown’s .821 winning percentage is better than Stoops’ .812, but my point would be Brown has the better opportunity because of the built in recruiting base. OU has to go head to head with Texas in its own state.

But let’s bring this back to LSU and a discussion about Miles and his counterparts in the SEC. Miles and Meyer are heads above the others even given LSU’s recored of last year. Then comes Reich in terms of accomplishment. But where does this go the balance of this year and say the next 3 years? At this point it sure looks dim for LSU.

by bcooper on Oct 16, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

*smacks forehead*

My mistake. I was like six when the Southwestern Conference imploded

by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 15, 2009 3:58 PM CDT reply actions  

Personally I could care less about the Big 12 or Oklahoma.

Bet you money noone in the Big 12 could match up to LSU, even on an off day.

by dsrimages on Oct 16, 2009 4:47 PM CDT reply actions  

Texas

I’m pretty sure Texas could hold their own in the SEC. And keep in mind, Okie State dominated Georgia. We had to come back in the last two minutes to beat Georgia. So yeah, I’m pretty sure there’s some teams in the Big 12 that could take LSU on an off day.

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Oct 16, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL! Everyone is beating Georgia this year. so what's your point?

LSU on a good day could beat anyone in the Big 12. The two stronger teams Alabama and Florida would smash Texas and any of the rest of them. Big 12 is not the strong conference this year.

by dsrimages on Oct 17, 2009 5:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

But that's not what you said in your first post above.

You said no one in the Big 12 could match up to LSU, even on an off day.

I pointed out two teams that could. I didn’t even mention Oklahoma or Nebraska. I’m not arguing that the Big 12 is stronger than the SEC, I’m challenging your statement that they’re so weak, they couldn’t beat an LSU team ranked 40th in total defense and 109th in total offense on an off day.

Now in your second post you said LSU on a good day could beat anyone in the Big 12. I’m not arguing with that proposition at all. If LSU puts everything together, they could be scary good.

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Oct 17, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL! Trying to get some fire under this group.

This is football season. Everyone backs their team. Actually in all honesty, there are some very good teams in the Big 12. Texas could give any team in the country a good run for their money. All kidding aside, the Big 12 is not to be overlooked. Right now though in all honesty, probably two of the best teams in the country are Florida and Alabama as are their rankings. Both teams are very solid in both sides of the ball. I am an avid LSU fan, but I’m not sure if it’s our year. It’d be nice, but they have been very sluggish up to this point and some major kinks to work out. I’m not ruling them out, but they do have a very tough schedule ahead and will need to be on their toes playing their best ball to get through without losing anymore games.

by dsrimages on Oct 17, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

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