And, simply, sound judgment is this: If the requirement to win means running the ball 55 times, then that's what it means. No need force-feeding a passing game that appeared to be a turnover in the making if the rhythm and results didn't warrant it.
LSU coaches to blame for QB's performance: John DeShazier | LSU Tigers Central - - NOLA.com. It was a very difficult game to watch, and I think that for whatever reason, our offensive coaches tend to resist the idea of tailoring the offense to suit the personnel or to suit what is working. It seems that Gary Crowton designs a play based on what he likes on paper, rather than what he sees on grass. The result is that our offense is an incoherent mishmash in which we run a whole lot of things but don't run any of it particularly well. I'm no alarmist, but I am ready for a change of strategy on offense, and it appears that LSU Nation is generally in agreement.
about 2 years ago
Richard Pittman
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I feel like this was the 2009 equivalent of the Troy game
All the problems on offense kind of came to a head, and I just don’t see this being a situation where Crowton cane around here next year.
I agree
But do you think there’s any chance that we actually make a change there?
It'd be a lot easier getting rid of an assistant coach
We’ll see.
by Billy Gomila on Nov 15, 2009 9:35 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know if the price we'd have to pay...
which is probably two more losses, is worth it just to get rid of GC. On the other hand after his job performance this year and much of last year has earned a post post season “promotion” like the co-co’s got last year. If we win out and keep him I fear it will hurt us for seasons to come where we have the talent to win another crystal. It’s a hard call what you would rather see.
I think it depends on which school of speculation you subscribe to
There are some who think he didn’t really want to fire Malveto last season. He didn’t want to, they were a close group, but by the final few games everybody realized it wasn’t going to work out. Some say that call was dictated to Miles and that’s just not true. But in my opinion, this is officially a similar “it’s just not working out” situation.
We’ll see, its all you can really say right now. He can’t make the move now, that will accomplish even less. It may be another situation where the assistant (or assistants) find other jobs. Whatever happens won’t happen till after the bowl game. Just how these things get done.
by Billy Gomila on Nov 15, 2009 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
I agree...
with what you’re saying Billy and I don’t think somebody being paid 3+ million gets told what to do by folks making less than a fraction of that. That thinking allows people to not credit Miles for making the changes. Nobody, especially Alleva, can step on those toes yet.
My question is has Miles reached the tipping point with Crowton yet or will it take two more losses? That would be a big price to pay for the program. I do think he has to go eventually, since I agree that I just don’t see his system working here long term with all the QB and other position changes you have in college. It’s not the NFL with that kind of stability and practice time.
I honestly don't know the answer.
We’ll just have to see.
by Billy Gomila on Nov 16, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
i had these thoughts during the game...
but i also wondered if our coaches were trying to get Lee some experience throwing the ball b/c they worry that we will need him in relief the next two games. The strength of our O against la tech’s D seemed so obvious to me, that I had to wonder if our strategy was intentional.
This was especially uncharacteristic of our offense b/c we are usually complaining about running the ball too much…not passing too much.
There's just no reason
for us to have this many weapons and to be struggling so much. Crowton plays calls with one objective: avoid pick sixes (or any risk, for that matter). We need someone with confidence in there to take advantage of the talent.
I'm proud of my damn strong football team. Have a great day!
I agree that the offense needs adjusting
but I can’t stand the schadenfreude of my fellow LSU fans.
Jrlz rhymes with Charles.
Ditto!
‘We’ as a fan base are the most blinded bunch of ingrates on the planet.
I guess it’s a state thing; the Saints haven’t ever won a darn thing but the are now 9-0 and people have complained about their last couple of wins because they weren’t blow-outs.
Everyone talks about what a great job Crowton did in 2007 and now he can’t tie his shoes. In 2007 he had an experienced quarterback who was able to utilize all the ‘weapons’.
JJ is getting there and has enough to get us through this year which will end on New Years Day, THAT IS NOT A BAD YEAR!!!!
Next year will be the year of the Tiger but our fan base needs to ‘grow up’ and stop being so stinking short sighted and fatalistic, it is EXTREMELY counter productive.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
In 2007 he had an experienced quarterback who was able to utilize all the ‘weapons’.
That’s just it he doesn’t have that right now and is failing to make the adjustment. So let’s not blindly defend the man. When he is on our offense is near unstoppable; the thing is it hasn’t looked that way in a LONG time. I don’t know maybe Crowton is too stubborn and/or arrogant to make the proper adjustments (in practice and in game-time situations). I’m all for keeping Crowton if he can make the adjustments, but he hasn’t shown the capacity to do that at this point. RUN THE DAMN BALL! In the very least it will give our defense the time to rest and make their adjustments.
Total Offense = 107th
At the end of the day
I don't know if I like the idea of running Crowton off
At least not this year. I think he for sure should get one more year. You want Jefferson to be able to grow in the system, and I think he has finally started to do that, and to take all of that away and make him learn a new system his junior year could seriously hurt the team and Jefferson’s development.
I think that is reasonable, one more year for JJ and Crowton to mutually improve
although I’m not sure I can stomach losing to Ole Miss and Arkansas back to back again without seeing a head roll. I have to think last weekend was something of an anomoly, with the team not taking Tech seriously, and the coaches not having the team ready to play.
Anyone know the status of JJ’s ankle?
When did we lose
back to back games to Ole Miss?
Did I miss something?
Shouldn’t we play the stinking games before we put a mark in the loss column!?!
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
I'm talking about Ole Miss followed by Arkansas, like last year.
And yes, I realize that is a doom and gloom scenario, but you’ll note that I mentioned the Tech game as (hopefully) an anomaly. If it’s not, then I think we are in some trouble.
That would be..
my only apprehension to letting Crowton go. I’m not sure I want JJ to have to take on a new system, but then again is a system that is 107th ranked in the FBS really one that should be taught to the players?
At the end of the day
First
We were pissed because we tried to run too much – "Les Miles is too B10 – 3 yards and a cloud stubborn…
Then
JJ is the problem; Miles should bench him be will not because he’s too loyal
Now
Lee is in his first appearance and they tried to get him as many reps as we could incase we need him down the stretch. And let’s run everyone out of town because we didn’t run the ball enough!
Frankly I don’t care how we looked against La Tech, they were not going to beat us and style points are stupid. A freaking W is a W. I hope our coach (and I know he is) is making decisions based on the big picture and not what a bunch of ungrateful, delusional and completely misguided bloggers think!
Why does our fan base judge everything on whichever one game we played that week? Last week after a close controversial LOSS everyone was all happy, after a semi close WIN (WITHOUT 36% of our Starting offense) we are one meltdown mode!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
I'm sorry.
Obviously you are more in tune with the brain trust than I am. Good thing because 7 for 22 (completions/attempts) and 15 for 116 (rushing attempts/yards rushing) are things that escape my level of comprehension. I mean who knew being down to La Tech at home going into the half was part of the bigger picture?
At the end of the day
No, I'm just not chicken little everytime we don't win by enough!
We started and finished the game with our back ups.
I certianly hope JJ is back for the Ole Miss game, if he’s not we are in trouble.
I assure you we WILL not beat Ole Miss simply running the football, even if we could have done so on every down v LaTech.
Lee needed to get reps and confidence if he is needed to finish out the season. Unfortunately we have developed a JACK A$$ fan base that yet again Boo’d the poor kid and I assure you that did not boost his confidence!
I hope JJ is fine but if he is not we might lose the next two, which of course the MORON element of our fan base will use as a referendum on coach Miles.
I have loved the Tigers unconditionally my whole life and have always been PROUD to be considered a ‘typical’ Tiger fan but I have started to HATE Tiger fans for all this crap!
Sorry but we need to get a grip!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
About my earlier comment (i.e., head roll)
That is probably a little frustrated hyperbole on my part. I certainly did not mean Miles.
I share your love for the team, as well as your disdain for the boo birds. I would have hoped that the booing element of our fan base intended that for Crowton or the playcalling in general, but I know better, unfortunately. Whether Lee is prime time material or not, he may be all we have right now, and catcalls are no way to motivate a shaky young QB.
Look..
the booing is in poor taste agreed, but if you can’t see that there is an inherent problem here that just giving more time might not fix then you are equally as deluded as the guys who are calling for Les Miles’ job right now. You seem to not even want to discuss the shortcomings of our offense or just explain it as us playing with back-ups. That’s ridiculous. I have defended Crowton as well this year, but as the season goes on it is becoming more an more apparent that maybe Crowton can’t get it done at this level.
There is no excusing the 107th ranked offense in the FBS and the 11th in our conference. There are a number of reasons to look elsewhere for a new OC and only one reason to keep him (which requires a serious leap of faith considering) in that given more time he will right the ship (offensively).
He may be given more time (I wouldn’t be completely disappointed because I do have faith in Les Miles) and may correct his errors; that outcome I would welcome with open arms.
At the end of the day
And yet if we go out and put up 40
a game for the last three you’ll all say he’s a genius.
My problem is this; as a fan base we make EVERY stinking game a referendum on Miles or Crowton or Chavis (remember the ‘fallout’ for beating Washington – ‘OMG, the D looked JUST like last year, we’re doomed!’)
Nobody really thought LSU would be a contender this year because we were very young on the lines and under center. (Most were cautiously optimistic about JJ and I’ll be honest he came along a little slower than I expected but if many Tiger fans had their way JLee would have started the Auburn game, wouldn’t that have been grand!)
Yet despite those challenges we held Florida to their lowest point total of the season and endured some of the worst officiating I had ever seen, until Alabama. Again, we lost but very well could have won that game and again – officiating!?!
My favorite Fan IDIOCY was after that game – A ‘supposed’ life-long LSU fan and season ticket holder called Les’ weekly show and gave him a hard time about the call and said it was his fault for not sticking up for LSU with the officials!
Earlier in the year a guy called in all indignant and asked Miles if there was ‘any truth to the rumor that Les was dabbling in Gary Crowtons offense’ … no doubt that same moron now wants Crowton fired!
Les proves what a gracious individual he is by not calling these idiots out but good lord, he has to be saying ‘what do I need to do for these people?’ I mean he is only our all time winningest (by percentage) coach and has just won ALL of his bowl games (none even close) including two Sugar Bowls and a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!
Yet after every game we are discussing the coaching staff and making changes!
IF Les feels like we need a change, he’ll make it.
I personally don’t know if it is the maturation of a QB coupled with some other factors that has caused the offense to be ineffective at times or if there is some truth to the Crowton decline theory.
Until we have JJ playing like he did v Auburn and for most of the Bama game for a few games we will not know.
But the reality is I have never been paid (nor will I ever be so fortunate) $4M to coach a football team. I believe the guy who is getting that check is very qualified and has done soooooooooooooooooooo much to earn our respect, we should give it to him.
Be patient, believe in the Hat! Geaux Tigers!!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
That's all well and good...
and I agree about much of it but you still have not addressed whether you think that #107 ranking is OK for our offense? That’s worse than our defense was last year and we know what happened there. Are you are satisfied LSU with this offensive performance this year with the talent we have playing it? Answer that first before giving a general breakdown of the program. If you are then that’s fine, we just have a difference in opinion. You certainly can’t say that performance comes as a referendum from one game.
We have declined in offensive performance each year GC has been here. Bad luck? Maybe so. Bad players? Don’t think so. I hope that Crowton can figure it out because a lot of it is on him and Miles and I don’t think GC is going anywhere unless we lose two more. That would be a real downer for the program and a price I’d rather not pay for a new OC. I’d rather win them both 3-0 and take the chance with GC than go through that.
And no, I won’t think he’s great if we look better in the next two games. There’s been too much this season and last that indicate GC does not get it done unless he has a lot of talent and experience at QB. That’s been his pattern everywhere he’s been and it’s not a referendum from La Tech. We recruit well but LSU can’t guarantee an OC will always have an NFL ready talent at QB every year. That’s the long term chance we take with GC.
As Billy G said earlier, we’ll see.
The problem is, we're not the only team out there with an inexperienced QB
And of the teams who have inexperienced QBs, how many have the supporting cast around that inexperienced QB that we’ve got? And yet, our offense is not just mediocre. It’s bad. It was better against Auburn than it had been all year, but it was for the most part ineffectual against Bama, was ineffectual against Florida, went LONG stretches against Georgia in which it did absolutely nothing, and was ineffectual against Washington. These aren’t isolated incidents. This is happening again and again and again.
And I can’t help but keep repeating this mantra: we aren’t particularly good at anything. We don’t look like we’re comfortable running ANYTHING. This team has no calling card, no go-to play or go-to style of play. It does not look like there is anything we know how to execute well. When we run zone runs, there always seems to be a man unblocked who makes a play on us. When we run option, it’s a disaster. When we pass, we can’t protect our QB. It’s gotten to the point where we can’t do much of anything unless someone makes a great individual effort with the ball in his hands, whether that be Charles Scott (RIP), Russell Shepard, Jordan Jefferson, Brandon Lafell, Terrance Toliver, or Keiland Williams. If we don’t get that great individual effort, we don’t get very far. When was the last time we ran the ball and you can honestly say our runner had a big hole to go through?
It simply is not true that we can out-talent everyone. There isn’t a team in the country that can overwhelm Florida or Bama with their talent. You need to execute on both sides of the ball and in all phases in order to beat the best teams, even if you have comparable talent. We execute well on defense and on special teams, but our offense does not execute anything well.
And you shouldn’t need an experienced senior quarterback to have success. Having an experienced quarterback helps, but it’s not a requirement. Heck, look at USC. They’re not in the national championship hunt, but they have a pretty nice record with a true freshman quarterback. It’s a struggle with their QB, but at least they run the ball well. We don’t do shit well on offense.
Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.
by Richard Pittman on Nov 16, 2009 8:26 PM CST up reply actions
Really sums it up.
The Tech game, to me, said the same thing Troy did last year. That this is too far gone to get fixed.
by Billy Gomila on Nov 16, 2009 8:57 PM CST up reply actions
USC????
And did you say look at USC, they have an inexperienced QB but a pretty nice record?
Their record is WORSE than ours and if you look at their play EVEN in the games they won, mostly against cupcakes they are far worse than us!!!!!!!
Thank you for making my point!!!
Bottom line; no the offense isn’t great at the moment but LaTech shouldn’t even enter the discussion. JJ is our QB, without him or until we have another back up we can’t win versus real teams without our starter and this year has been his maturation.
If we have JJ back and the offense continues to stumble then maybe you have a point.
And frankly, if Miles decides to make a change at OC I’m fine with it but I really don’t care who else thinks he should do whatever, he gets paid $3.5M to make those decisions, let him!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
And did you notice that despite their 3 losses, their offense WORKS..
It’s not great, but it works. With a true freshman QB, they are 6th in their conference in scoring. 4th in the conference in rushing yards per game. 6th in the conference in pass efficiency. 4th in conference in sacks given up. With a true freshman, their offense is competent. Not great, but competent. They aren’t very good at passing, but they can run the ball and they protect their QB. That’s with a TRUE FRESHMAN. We have a sophomore, and we do NOTHING well. Not run. Not pass. Not protect the quarterback. We are 9th in scoring offense. 10th in rushing offense. 9th in passing offense. 11th in sacks against. The number differentials are not extreme, but they are significant. USC’s offense runs worse than it did with more experienced quarterbacks, but it runs OK. Ours doesn’t. It does not do anything right except avoid turnovers.
Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.
by Richard Pittman on Nov 18, 2009 5:30 AM CST up reply actions
"It doesn't do anything right except avoid turnovers"
That’s a pretty big except. I try not to get too worked up over statistics, because honestly I don’t care if we’re last in total offense and total defense, as long as we’re winning games, which we are. The offense improved greatly since the Florida game, and now everyone’s going all negative again after a game against a cupcake with at least 4 starters missing, including the quarterback.
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