Les Miles Denies Calling for a Spike; Video Evidence Proves Otherwise
by PodKATT on Nov 22, 2009 12:54 AM CST
45 comments
Im not sure what to make of this. Either Les is confused about the question or lying or there is some sort of severe communication issues going on in the coaching staff. Or all 3.
It doesn't matter what the truth behind this inconsistency is. It is Inexcusable.
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I say this as a completely unbiased observer...honestly
This isn’t a dig at you guys, b/c I was rooting for LSU in this game, but in addition to all the other madness from the end of this one, it was kind of a low move on Miles’ part to essentially blame the debacle on his 19-year old quarterback (which is the way it sounded from watching that video). I know it’s not easy for someone in that situation to face up to the media, but that was pretty weak.
by John Expat on Nov 22, 2009 1:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No offense taken.
Coaching (or lack thereof) is what lost this game.
by artiger on Nov 22, 2009 1:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but really, enough on the coaching
The same points have been made, over and over. The coaching affected the last 25 seconds (and horribly so), and maybe the call on the 2nd attempt for 2 was a bad call, but there were still 59 other minutes played. For example, Lafell catching the ball once in a while might’ve helped. He did make some huge plays at the end, but this was a team loss. We had a lot of opportunities to win, and a wide variety of people missed them.
by Ianoka on Nov 22, 2009 1:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah you're absolutely right..
if the players played near perfect it would have covered up Les’ deficiencies when it comes to game management.
At the end of the day
by Mikeno on Nov 22, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm trying to agree
with Ianoka’s (not Mikeno’s) comments but I guess since I’m not ready to fire the most succesful coach we’ve ever had I’m too stupid!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
by SouthernMan on Nov 22, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Come off of it..
I’m not calling for Les’ head yet either, but to try and pawn off the blame on the players is ludicrous.
At the end of the day
by Mikeno on Nov 22, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Look, it was an UNBELIEVABLY stupid coaching job at the end
But it affected 1 or 2 plays. I for one would sure love to have Lafell’s drop on 3rd and long back. Or Peterson not peeking into the backfield. Or Holliday catching the ball instead of letting it roll to the 1 yard line. Yes the coaching in the last minute was terrible, but had we executed earlier, we wouldn’t have been in that position. The 8 minute drive for Ole Miss’ last field goal? That’s on the players.
by Ianoka on Nov 22, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
But as a Bama fan who had to live through the Shula years, bad coaching sure doesn’t help.
"So I want everybody to think here for a second, how much does this game mean to you? 'Cause if it means something to you, you can't stand still. You understand? You play fast! You play strong! You go out there and dominate the man you're playing against, and you make his ass quit! That's our trademark! That's our M.O.... as a team! That's what people know us as!" - Coach Nick Saban before the 2008 LSU game.
by 12NationalChampionships on Nov 23, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again.........
We Punted the whole third quarter…. Crowton is to blame here. Get off Mile he made a bad call. What about the season being lost on offense this season. This is bigger then a blown spike or FG situation this has been going on all season and it caught up with us and had it happened in the Miss ST game we would already be calling for Crowtons head like I am now or for some Les being fired. Its hard for me to say fire Les because his faults are not as great as his accomplishment here at LSU.
A Head coach is only good as the assistants and the players that he surround himself with and the players are here, but the OC has run his course and Miles I have faith in will make the right choice here. Fire Les Name anyone that you know 100% will bring in a whole new staff and duplicate the same 5 years as Mile and company recruiting and wins let me know. All new coaches are a crap shot at least you cant deny he can flat out recruit and his winning % is damn good heck 9-3 I can live with not happy but I can live with it I know FSU would love to be 9-3. Winning is skill and luck our luck has run out and out OC doesn’t have the skills to coach this much offensive talent without his head exploding with what plays and formations he can use. 1st bad season same on me second bad season shame on Mile 3rd bad season its a pattern and then Miles has to go. Change is needed but not calling for the Head coach to be fired is not the answer, but Corwton ARSE being fired is. Next season I will say let him ride but even then I might not small changes and we will be back in the winners circle again.
Think about it we recruit with the best of them but we get out coached on the field and thats what needs to be fixed and the right OC will make Mile look like a whole different person. heck I can even say Florida head coach is not looking the same without Mullens calling the shots as the OC. So, don’t discount the OC making a Day and night difference because it can without firing the Head Coach.
For me when we lost the chance to win the West and play for the SEC Ship the season was over for me. I’m sick of window dressing bowl games to say what a great season it was. Championships or bust and I don’t say it for all LSU football teams, but this team had the chance to do it, is what I’m saying. But, King gadget and trickery Crowton jack of all plays and formations an master of none doesn’t seem to understand or watches football that you run what works and stop trying to fool the other team you only are fooling yourself.
Small note the Defense is fine give any team in the country our offense I bet a dime on a dollar the out come will be the same or worst. They held the lead 15-13 until we from from playing American football to world Cup soccer and punted all 3 qtr.
We deserve to lose for the simple fact that we can’t keep fooling ourselves that we have a complete team when we don’t. Bama has Ingram and D, Florida has Tebow and D etc., etc. Team hang their hat on what work and not ashamed to say look stop it. Heck didn’t ole Piss tell us to stop McCluster which we couldn’t heck they won the game because of it. Sure Les deserves the blame he’s the head coach but firing him is not the cure all to what needs to change in Tiger Town. We have no identity when it comes to offense because the Coaching has it in their mind that all players can run the plays they pick vs. tailoring the plays around the players you have that’s just a plain Ole Ego trip that what I do works for everyone, WRONG!
Chime in guys this itch wont be scratched until spring ball rolls around for me.
"It is What It Is"
by GeauxDee on Nov 22, 2009 6:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Offense Lost It
Agree with you GeauxDee. Despite the miraculous chance to win, the lack of making proper adjustments on offense cost us the game.
by Darko67 on Nov 22, 2009 7:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Crowton
Crowton makes plays that look good on paper. NOT the personnel on the field. That’s as clear as ever. I’ve been a Miles supporter from the get go, but there is no excuse for tryin to spike the ball with one second left. It was pure chaos. GET A PLAY IN KID. WAKE UP.
by LSUDeathValley on Nov 22, 2009 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but ...
Obviously the mess of the final minute isn’t the sole (or even primary) cause of the loss. There are a lot of things to point to in the other 59 minutes.
However, I think it’s quite valid to look at the actions of Miles and the coaching staff in that last minute as a demonstration of their competence and character. And I think this much is clear:
1. Once we got to the Ole Miss 32, there were coaching decisions to be made. We were in range of our kicker, we were facing the team that’s No. 3 in the SEC in sacks and we were 11th in the SEC in sacks allowed. We chose to run two pass plays, which resulted in a near sack and a sack. Problem: Situational awareness and strategy
2. Miles seems to be saying he wanted to run the ball, Crowton called passes and he deferred to Crowton believing Jefferson could handle it. Problem: Miles’ leadership
3. After the third-down loss, 16 or 17 seconds ran off the clock before a timeout was called. Miles says he believes he was trying to call timeout, but apparently not. We were coming out of a timeout and calling a play that stood a real chance of ending inbounds. Not a single player called timeout after the play was dead in a really obvious situation where you need to use your timeout (4th and long, under 30 seconds left, need a first down and then something to happen after that). Why weren’t the players instructed to immediately call timeout if the play ended inbounds? How is it possible that Miles was trying to call timeout and wasn’t able to? I’ve seen his manic timeout calls plenty in the past – if he wants a timeout, he gets it. Problem: Situational awareness, basic coaching strategy, WTF incompetence
4. The team was clearly not prepared for the possibility that the Hail Mary could result in something other than a touchdown or an incompletion/interception. Of course, letting the clock run down to nine seconds before calling timeout pretty much assured that, but again we were coming out of a timeout and you would think the “what ifs” would have been discussed and some contingency put in place. Problem: Situational awareness, basic coaching strategy, execution
5. Les Miles says he did not signal for a spike. But clearly he did. His version of events simply does not reflect reality. Problem: Is he flat-out lying?
I would really love to see video of the LSU sidelines between the time the third-down play was called dead and the timeout was called. I have a really hard time believing Miles was asking for a timeout (or whatever his convoluted explanation means), and given the detachment from reality of his statements about the spike, I don’t think we can believe what he tells us about the timeout.
And that, really, is the big question – Miles and his coaches demonstrated incompetence in that last minute, which is bad (but not unexpected if you’ve actually paid attention to Miles’ tenure at LSU). But if he’s flat-out lying about what he did or didn’t do, that would seem to be a really big concern.
by Cap'n Ken on Nov 22, 2009 8:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Superb Analysis...
I’m old so I don’t have time to be pissed off all day the day after a loss. However, in this case I’ll make an exception. I don’t cling to the theory that we should have played better earlier in the game. What’s that all about? We got every conceivable break in the end and should have won that game. In the end, coaching prevented us from having the opportunity to go for the win, plain and simple.
by Tiger6367 on Nov 22, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
#3
3. After the third-down loss, 16 or 17 seconds ran off the clock before a timeout was called. Miles says he believes he was trying to call timeout, but apparently not. We were coming out of a timeout and calling a play that stood a real chance of ending inbounds. Not a single player called timeout after the play was dead in a really obvious situation where you need to use your timeout (4th and long, under 30 seconds left, need a first down and then something to happen after that). Why weren’t the players instructed to immediately call timeout if the play ended inbounds? How is it possible that Miles was trying to call timeout and wasn’t able to? I’ve seen his manic timeout calls plenty in the past – if he wants a timeout, he gets it. Problem: Situational awareness, basic coaching strategy, WTF incompetence
Ding.
- is why we lost (other than a miserable third quarter). #3 is inexcusable, but not a fireable offense. #5, OTOH, IS a fireable offense. One of the things I have always liked about Miles is his character. If he loses that, he loses everything. Do not lie. Do not blame the players. Be a man.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com
by Poseur on Nov 22, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
These athletes need a coach
They’re all fireable offenses. The guy is an idiot. I don’t know whether he’s lying or he actually doesn’t know what was going on, what he was doing, what anyone on his staff was doing, etc. But it doesn’t matter. It is time to end this sideshow. The only reason LSU has won games during Miles’ tenure is because the great athleticism of our players have been able to overcome the coaches’ inadequacies. And it’s his staff, so those that believe Crowton is the problem: Who’s in charge? Miles can say, No we’re running the ball if he really wanted to run the ball.
Options abounded: We could have tried the FG before the sack and failed screen pass and still had time on the clock and possession if it missed. We could have immediately called a TO on third down. We could have given the ball to Shepard or Ridley on the conversion. We could have immediately snapped the ball to Ridley with one second left. I can’t NOT think of viable options other than the CF that happened.
The guy is an idiot. He has no game management sense, apparently insufficient authoritative presence to overrule the OC when he wants or to get his staff to perform at a high level, I don’t know what kind of recruiter he is, but that’s going to start declining as well when saavy parents see enough idiocy like this. I have zero confidence in anyone on this staff, from the top down, since Pelini left. Look at the year-over-year numbers. The numbers don’t lie.
There is no possibility that a situation like the end of that game would have happened with Saban or Meyers or any top-level coach. Miles is not a top-level coach. He’s a buffoon who oftentimes is standing there when good things happen. It’s an old Internet trope, but he’s Forrest Gump, only without the common sense. I’m praying that Joe Alleva is smart enough and has enough steel to fire him.
But Miles likely will fire Crowton, stay around for another year, win one or two improbable games because of the athletic talent, and further drive the program straight into middle of the SEC mediocrity with respect to record and laughingstock status otherwise.
by TCL on Nov 22, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Football FAIL
“Options abounded: We could have tried the FG before the sack and failed screen pass and still had time on the clock and possession if it missed.”
I vote you for next LSU coach.
by rtr on Nov 22, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hahahaha I love how you call Miles an idiot multiple times in this post
And you don’t realize that after you miss a field goal, you don’t keep possession? Are you serious?
by Ianoka on Nov 22, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I heart irony.
That is all
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
St. Louis vegetarian blog
by Gregatron on Nov 22, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One of the theories out there...
Is that Miles was signaling that Tolliver was “down” after the catch but before an Ole Miss player stripped him of the ball. I think this is pretty legit, Miles is a high character guy, and has no reason to lie in that situation.
I don’t think Miles was signaling for a spike.
by LSU Jonno on Nov 22, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Inconclusive
I’m just a neutral fan with nothing invested in the outcome of your games, but I think this explanation is plausible. I didn’t find the motion on the video too damning. It looks like a spontaneous reaction rather than a planned play call, so he may well have been indicating that Tolliver was down.
Regardless, the rest of the ending was such a mess that I’m pretty surprised that your fan base is this divided. It seems pretty clear that your staff isn’t well-enough organized to give your team the best possible chance to win games. That’s inexcusable.
by PhilipVU94 on Nov 22, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
concur
It is emotional.
You’ve got fans who have been poo pooing Miles from day one who are now smiling saying “I told you so” and you have fans who’ve been defending Miles from day one who are now having to admit they were wrong. It is a pretty awkward situation that is causing a lot of arguments.
by LSU Jonno on Nov 22, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't see this before I posted below
Saw that post on Tiger Droppings. I think this is a plausible explanation.
by Zandor435 on Nov 22, 2009 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
number 5
5. Les Miles says he did not signal for a spike. But clearly he did. His version of events simply does not reflect reality. Problem: Is he flat-out lying?
I have heard the theory that Miles wasn’t calling for a spike but was rather stressing to the ref that Tolliver was down before the ball came out. The Ole Miss player had pulled the ball out of TT’s hands after he was down. The theory was that Miles was signaling in this video that TT was down before the ball came out.
You can see in the video that he was making the kicking motion at the beginning. You can also see that Miles is making this motion immediately following the catch.
Not sure what to think, but it is a plausible explanation for the video I think.
by Zandor435 on Nov 22, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Delay of game
I have a question. Could we have let the play clock run out on the last play and taken a delay of game penalty to get the field goal unit on the field? If the Nutcracker chooses to not accept the penalty is the game over? Can the game end on a penalty?
I am still not thinking rationally at this point, but if Miles does not step up and take some responsibility for the many mistakes in this game I will be very dissappointed. The Crow must Go! The Special Teams coach has some answering to do as well.
by nickover on Nov 22, 2009 7:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No...
Once the ball was spotted the clock started. I may be one of the only ones that think that there was no way to run the field goal unit on, set up and get the snap off in one second. That’s having 22 players running in both directions all at once and still get the play off. Not likely. The real issue was the clock management and not calling the time out with 24 seconds left instead of 9.
by Tiger6367 on Nov 22, 2009 7:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct, no way to get off a field goal with one tick.
AND they did call time out the refs didn’t stop the clock for some reason and Les has accepted responsibility but if every coach is calling for time out, which they were, then why no stop?
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
by SouthernMan on Nov 22, 2009 8:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why..
no play called to the end-zone then? Which in my belief would have been the next competent coaching decision after letting so much time run off of the clock.
At the end of the day
by Mikeno on Nov 22, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We didn't get the play off anyway
Watch the officials on the final play. they were calling it dead before the snap anyway. The spike play is 100% irrelevent. The game was over already.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com
by Poseur on Nov 22, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One possibility
is maybe Miles didn’t want to call timeout after 3rd down. It was 4th and 26, he was planning on throwing to the end zone, so if it DOES work, then there’s no time left for Ole Miss. If it’s incomplete, which was the most likely possibility, then it doesn’t matter anyways. The idea that we would catch it, but be short of the end zone was an extremely unlikely possibility.
That being said, the play calling after the screen to Lafell was AWFUL. Run the freaking ball! The ONLY thing we can’t afford there is to go backwards, and somehow we managed it.
by Ianoka on Nov 22, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the way les miles describes the ending of the game was so diplomatic.
i think les miles has lost his fire. he might be happy with the one ncg he won. he just seems like this was the outcome he expected. just an observer of the game.
yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 22, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Miles has to go
I’ve been saying this since last season, but it takes a while for these things to gain steam. I’m glad LSU won the national title for the 2007 season, but I’m also of the opinion that 2007 LSU should have been undefeated. The road to the 2007 national title was paved by chaos in the BCS that season, so it should have been no endorsement of Miles. Unfortunately, it earned him job security and we’re paying for it. Anyone could look good coaching the players Saban recruited. It’s not to say that Miles can’t recruit, but look at what Alabama will have the longer Saban is there.
I’m not saying he has to go for this one game. I’ve had problems with him for a long time, but I was giving him the benefit of the doubt until last season. Gary Crowton has to go too. I say this because I look at the future of the program and it’s not good. Recruiting is going to start taking a nose dive because of debacles like this. We should have been on the verge of a dynasty and I’m of the opinion that we would be a dynasty had Saban stayed. He did leave the program in good shape, which is what earned Miles job security. If he wins a national title with Bama this season, then I guess he’ll have the last laugh.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Nov 22, 2009 8:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
You are wise..... you are correct
The 2007 team should have been undefeated … But stupid coaching decisions … blew the undefeated season and the #1 ranking with it. I could hardly believe Miles blew the Kentucky game, and then makes the SAME STUPID MISTAKE over again in the Arkansas game. I new then Miles coaching ability was suspect.
Everyone makes mistake, does things that they wish they could do over and not repeat the same mistakes. The problem with Les Miles … is he keeps repeating the same stupid mistakes over and over and over. His decision making is suspect. The duel defensive coordinators experiment was a disaster. His game management abilities are juvenile unprofessional.
His inability to utilize our 5 star freshman talent is pitiful , just plain pitiful.
I’m sure Les Miles is a nice person, father , husband ect, ect, ect.
But at 3.5 million dollars a year LSU football program deserves much better.
Coaches come and coaches geaux. Its time for Les Miles and company to GEAUX.
by C.D. on Nov 23, 2009 2:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Um Are you serious?
If anything the 2007 team should have had 3 loses and never made it to the MNC game. Alabama had you guys beat and against the ropes and gave you guys a freebie ala JPW fumble on the one. If you guys are going to be realistic about hypotheticals being undefeated in 2007 is BS.
Great Game Hokies! What a battle!
by The Voice of Reason on Nov 23, 2009 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And if the refs had correctly called an interception a few weeks ago
we may have had only 2 losses today. Let’s not get into that crap, OK?
by artiger on Nov 23, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We're stuck with Miles...
He’s not going anywhere for the time being. We all know that. We’re just going to have to sit back and take it for the time being. Crowton on the other hand, that’s a possibility. Truthfully I knew we were in trouble with this guy the first time he stepped onto the field with that tiny Ipod headset on in the first game. His sideline demeanor sucks moose balls.
by Tiger6367 on Nov 22, 2009 9:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Are you talking about MIles' sideline demeanor?
by Ianoka on Nov 22, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
YES!!!
He seems emotionally detached from what’s going on. Between he and Richt I don’t know which is worse. Player’s feed off emotion, each others and their coaches. The only emotion Les projects is confusion.
by Tiger6367 on Nov 22, 2009 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy criticizing a coaches demeanor
Great coaches and great players have different ways of leading. There are successful examples of both. You don’t often see Bill Belichik jumping up and down and screaming. Whatever works for them is what they should do. They shouldn’t try and be someone they’re not. And did you not see Miles sprinting down the field when Peterson was returning the field goal for a TD? Having an emotional coach can have a HUGE negative side. Sure, they can get the players up, but when they get down, the players get down. An even keeled coach keeps the players going through good AND bad.
by Ianoka on Nov 22, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct sir...
There are good coaches that are emotionless on the sidelines. I guess I was just trying to find one more thing that I didn’t like about coach Miles. I have nothing against him as a person, nothing. Every year we finish in the top 5 in recruiting and every year we get beat by teams that we should clearly dominate. We seem to play down to our oppositions level rather than crushing them like FL or AL. I attribute that to coaching.
by Tiger6367 on Nov 23, 2009 7:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
WWSD?
probably call a time out quicker
Great Game Hokies! What a battle!
by The Voice of Reason on Nov 23, 2009 8:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
AND There it is
WWSD – This is why LSU Fans will always be viewed as dillusional wackos.
Our fan base is asking WWSD 5 years after the guy left and he’s on to his second job since LSU.
ARE we forever going to be the desperate stalker ex-girlfriend type?
The guy is gone, he’s married with children and he’s never comming back!
MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
by SouthernMan on Nov 23, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK - This guys a Bama fan
Let me change my answer…
Geaux piss off, we don’t care WWSD.
For any Tiger fans still holding on to Saban my statement above stands
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
by SouthernMan on Nov 23, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth, I buy that he was signaling that the ball was down, not to spike it.
You can see his hand is parallel to the ground, whereas when calling for a spike you generally have the hand perpendicular. I’m not a Les fan, but I don’t think he’s lying.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Nov 23, 2009 1:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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