Ole Miss 25 - LSU 23: Quick Thoughts

by Richard Pittman on Nov 23, 2009 6:35 AM CST in Football Comment 23 comments

I apologize for disappearing. I have been busy painting and otherwise preparing a new house to move into. I've been away from the computer all weekend, for the most part. Anyway, some quick bullets:

We were thoroughly outplayed, especially in the second half, and we were darn lucky to be in that game. If not for some very questionable officiating in the first half, Ole Miss would have scored a touchdown on the interception that led to the blocked field goal returned for a touchdown for LSU. A 14-point swing would have made that game not very close.
Jordan Jefferson reverted to his old ways of completely disappearing for a quarter plus. The third quarter and early part of the 4th quarter for Jefferson were horrid, and our offense ground to a half. Fortunately, the defense stepped up and managed to keep Ole Miss from scoring for much of that time.
We've now lost our 3 best running backs to season-ending injury.
With a 2-point conversion try from the 1 1/2 yard line, I really don't think a fade to Toliver was the best play there. I'm not saying we necessarily should have run the ball, but the fade did nothing to exploit the advantage we were given by virtue of the penalty taking us 1 1/2 yards closer to the end zone.
It was the right move to not shut down the offense when we got to the 31 yard line. College kickers aren't that good, and with an offense that was (at that time) moving the ball and about a minute left to play with 2 timeouts, it was the right move to keep trying to go forward.
The big sack was mostly on Jefferson, but partly on the coaches. He does not have a good feel for the rush, and did exactly what he should not have done. Instead of stepping up, he stepped right, and Ciron Black had successfully maneuvered his man around where Jefferson should have been, but Jefferson moved right into the path of danger.
The horrible decision to wait 15 seconds to call our last timeout was indefensible. The decision to try to spike the ball instead of rushing the field goal unit out was less so. The field goal unit probably would not have been able to get the snap off. Unfortunately, the proper thing to do in that situation was probably to try to run a play to the end zone. There just wasn't time to do anything else, and that's because of that last timeout. Heck, had we called it immediately, we probably could have run a spike, then a play to the end zone, and THEN kicked the field goal after the big catch by Toliver.

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Good Points

I think you are correct about not shutting down the offense, I don’t like the bubble screen on 3rd and a mile but the sack is what really took us out of the game.

The timeout, according to Miles, was called for earlier but not awarded and I don’t doubt that.

You can blame it all on Miles and say well he should have made sure and I’ll accept that but there is a lot going on down there and coaches should be able rely on officials to do their job – not that they have been able to but they SHOULD be able to.

Also, LSU got robbed by the officials too, that play that was over turned when we stripped the ball was ruled a turnover and there was NOT anywhere near enough to turn it over – going by the Alabama game standards it should have been upheld as called on the field.

That led to a score for Ole Miss otherwise that game was about to get out of hand for them.

Bottom line; Les deserves a lot of criticism for the way this game ended but it is being blown way out of proportion.

Those who have been looking for reasons against Miles think they have it and don’t want to hear anything else.

Those who were on the fence and didn’t really know have fallen to the other side as this was ‘just what everyone has been talking about’

Well count me as STILL firmly in the man’s camp. You can all continue to curse at me and call me an idiot as well, if that makes you feel better but I think this man has EARNED a little loyalty from us and I for one am going to give it to him.

Thanks again Richard, this type of reflection will be missed when you are not around as much.

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Nov 23, 2009 7:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Oh and

he was not calling for the spike – he was indicating to the officials that had just robbed him of about 12 seconds that Tolliver was down when the ball was stripped.

You can clearly see him making a kicking motion expecting his kicking team to be ready to go – that would not have worked either as there just wasn’t time on the clock but this crap about him being a Liar is wrong and it needs to be said.

I hope he comes out today and clarifies how that communication broke down and continues to take responsibility for the whole thing as HE DID after the game.

People have tried to spin it with that highly EDITED video and try to make it out that he was going back n forth with Jefferson passing the buck.

That’s garbage and it’s completely false!

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Nov 23, 2009 7:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

You're Delusional

It’s very said to try and explain this away. Sure, there’s plenty of mistakes by players and refs to point out, as with any game, but to “take responsibility” and pass the buck in the same sentence is just as horrible as his coaching. If we had gotten the win, the debate about Miles being a lucking idiot or genius coach would still be going. Fortunately, he definitively answered that for us Saturday.

There is no reasonable way to explain what happened. Even in his on field “unedited” interview, he looked like a kindergarten kid that was just caught in the cookie jar. He had no idea what to say, because he had no idea what just happened. He did motion the kicking team, but notice in that video the players are already lined up. He should have singled that before the first play was called dead. And, the spike single (yes the spike single) was well before the kick single.

by stpaul on Nov 23, 2009 7:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, a few comments

The timeout, according to Miles, was called for earlier but not awarded and I don’t doubt that.

This is Miles’ responsibility. He’s got to make sure that timeout get’s called. This was the single worst move in the Les Miles regime.

Also, LSU got robbed by the officials too

Please dude. Don’t go there man, just don’t.

Bottom line; Les deserves a lot of criticism for the way this game ended but it is being blown way out of proportion.

It is not being blown out of proportion. This game calls into question every close play dealing with clock management over Les’ career. He no longer earns the benefit of the doubt. 2007 UK, 2008 AU, 2009 UGA, and now Ole Miss are all glaring examples of horrible clock management. The outcome of the games is not what is up for debate, it is how we got there. We really are winning despite Miles.

he was not calling for the spike – he was indicating to the officials that had just robbed him of about 12 seconds that Tolliver was down when the ball was stripped.

We agree about one thing. Miles may be a moron, but he’s a high character moron.

by LSU Jonno on Nov 23, 2009 7:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Time Out...

What is it I’m missing? You RUN up the side judge, you get right into his face and scream TIME tf OUT!!! You don’t expect someone else to do it, you don’t WALK over and say pardon me sir, if you have a moment we’d liked to call a time out… please. It doesn’t matter one iota what took place in the previous 59 minutes, pardon me but that’s crap. In the end when it did matter we were in position to win the game and play calling and coaching indecision prevented us from doing that.

by Tiger6367 on Nov 23, 2009 7:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Question

Why couldn’t the players have signalled for a timeout? Not saying it wasn’t Miles’ responsibility, but wouldn’t a quicker move from the QB have helped? Has the ability of coaches to call timeout from the sideline led to the players being afraid to take that responsibility? Any thoughts?

"So I want everybody to think here for a second, how much does this game mean to you? 'Cause if it means something to you, you can't stand still. You understand? You play fast! You play strong! You go out there and dominate the man you're playing against, and you make his ass quit! That's our trademark! That's our M.O.... as a team! That's what people know us as!" - Coach Nick Saban before the 2008 LSU game.

by 12NationalChampionships on Nov 23, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Couldn't bare to re-watch those last few plays

so my take is entirely from a first viewing.

SouthernMan, I’m skeptical about your time out point. How is the staff unable to get that call in for over 10-15 seconds? I’m still firmly in the camp that they made a major mistake there.

The most indefensible plays to me:
- I didn’t like the fade on the first 2nd point attempt but I really hated it on the retry from just 1.5 yards out.
- All three play calls when they had it close to the 30 with 40 or so seconds and 2 time outs. I agree that you don’t completely shut down the offense but you also don’t call 3 consecutive plays that have a good chance to taking the team backwards. I wanted to see Ridley run it on first down and I was certain I’d see him run it on 2nd down. That screen on third was always in danger of being a negative play.
- Not calling that timeout.

I think too much is being said about the spike with 1 second left debacle. The game was lost prior to that.

I want to see Miles learn from this and get serious about improving his game management skills. I want Crowton out now.

by no brainer on Nov 23, 2009 7:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

This

I think too much is being said about the spike with 1 second left debacle. The game was lost prior to that.

I want to see Miles learn from this and get serious about improving his game management skills. I want Crowton out now.

Add Studrawa to that list as well. What’s happened to our running game this year is criminal. Les has always had issues with clock management. That’s just one of the things we’ve accepted as a tradeoff for his skills as a recruiter and motivator, but it’s past time that got fixed. He’s either got to figure out how to manage a clock himself or he needs an offensive coordinator who knows how to do it.

I was convinced he would motivate the team to come out strong for the last three games of the year. Now I’m truly worried about Arkansas and the bowl game. It’s not that we lost the game, it’s that the team has come out flat for two games since the Alabama loss. If he can’t motivate the team AND he can’t manage game situations, recruiting talent just isn’t enough.

And let me clarify that I’m not calling for Miles to be fired, but if things aren’t corrected next year, I will be.

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Nov 23, 2009 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm tired of arguing about it all.

If LSU makes the irrational and asinine decision to Fire Les Miles, which I don’t think they will, then I hope you all enjoy SUCKING because that’s what will happen.

People keep saying Saban, Meyer and Spurrier (which is laughable at this point – what’s his record since leaving Florida?) would have done this or that, well those guys aren’t coming here.

Saban is gone and is NEVER coming back – get over it!!! Meyer is more than likely going to turn down ND, do you really think he’d leave Florida to come to LSU and dear lord we don’t need cry baby, triple QB bench ‘em every time there is an incompletion Steve the visor.

Somebody mentioned Jimbo Fisher, really? There was a reason he wasn’t promoted when Saban left, he’s not HC material and frankly FSU’s offense has been crap since he got there – maybe he could only win with NS calling the shots!

Bottom line people – as I’ve said a hundred times and wrote in my column, Les deserves all the criticism for this one incident but that IS what it IS, one incident.

The Auburn call was the exact opposite, if anyone cares to go and review it, despite what Gary Danielson spun it into.

He should not LOSE his job for one really bad loss!

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Nov 23, 2009 9:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Couple of things

It’s not one incident. Miles has a history of poor clock management decisions. It’s a consitent weakness in his game. I’m not including the Auburn 2007 game, because that was the right decision. Even there though, Flynn came out of the huddle very late and realistically, once the clock was below 10 seconds, the play shouldn’t have been run.

But Jonno listed a number of games above where Miles has made bad clock decisions and he didn’t even include the timeout after change of possession in the Tennessee 2005 game. Miles absolutely has to correct this. This year all it cost us was the Capital One bowl and about 8 spots in the polls so far. If this happens in a year where we’re challenging for a title, it’s disastrous.

I agree Saban, Meyer, Stoops, Carroll are not leaving their current gigs to come to LSU. Anyone who seriously thinks they would is delusional. But Florida State does have a good offense this year (or did until Ponder went down). None of us have any knowledge if Fisher will be a good head coach, but Florida State is certainly convinced he will be. And Fisher’s not coming here either, with a $5M payment due if he’s not FSU’s coach by 2011.

And it was not Danielson that criticized the Auburn 2007 call. I’ve seen you make that statement multiple times now. It was Todd Blackledge. The game was on ESPN, and Mike Patrick and Todd Blackledge were the crew on that game.

Again, I’m not calling for Les to be fired (he won’t be anyway this year). But he has to fix the problems with his team or I will be next year.

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Nov 23, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I listed Auburn 2008, not Auburn 2007

The Auburn 2007 call was absolutely the right call.

Auburn 2008 was absolutely ridiculous.

I forgot about the 2005 UT game.

The point is Les doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt. He is a liability in every close game.

If LSU makes the irrational and asinine decision to Fire Les Miles, which I don’t think they will, then I hope you all enjoy SUCKING because that’s what will happen.

Dude, we SUCK NOW!!!! We’ve been OUT GAINED ON THE YEAR. We are below 500 in the SEC the past two years. WE SUCK NOW!

by LSU Jonno on Nov 23, 2009 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't remember what you are referencing

as far as 05 UT, but there was one year when the clock didn’t stop for change of possession, and that may have been it.

by Ianoka on Nov 24, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Out played

Yes Miles, or assistants in his charge, made another series of questionable play calls and time management blunders in the last minute, but as Richard said, we were pushed all over the field for 59 minutes.

As much as you want and hope for Jefferson to be “the man”, he has not played up to a SEC level QB. As bad as McElroy of Alabama, Adams of Vandy, Joe what’s his name from Georgia, Garcia from SC have been, Jefferson has been at times even worse.

Having said that, it’s not all on Jefferson. The D line has been marginable in most games, and here for the most part, they didn’t show up. Ole Miss had twice the yardage and controlled the game for the most part. The O line has been adqauate at best and never dominate. Jefferson had a man in his face immediately on the second 2 point try (may be the inexperienced running back’s fault, can’t tell from TV).

I remember an old man crying at the end of the 03 chanpionship game. It meant that much to him. We pull so hard and wish so much for LSU to win and look good doing it, this year has been hard to watch.

by bcooper on Nov 23, 2009 9:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Good post

Thank you for pointing out what I’ve been thinking; w/ one second, we were pretty much screwed. I doubt most NFL teams could have gotten something off that quick.

The real problems are 1) the play-calls that lead to a sack and a screen and a need for two timeouts used (why not quick throws to the sidelines or runs? why did we put a sack prone-QB at risk to take us out of field goal range?) and 2) why wasn’t the timeout called sooner? Les said he thought TO had been called, and I want to know more about whether or not he called it and the ref didn’t see or what. Still his fault, but I’d like to know.

I'm proud of my damn strong football team. Have a great day!

by Mikethetiger on Nov 23, 2009 9:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

From the reports I saw

It seems he heard someone say timeout on the sideline, but no one signaled the ref. Definitely his responsibility.

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Nov 23, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember an old man crying at the end of the 03 chanpionship game. It meant that much to him.

That Old Man was crying becasue it had been 45 years since LSU’s national championship and he had likely been eye witness to our ignorant fan base causing the firing of several good coaches leading to the further decline of the program.

LSU had a very young and inexperienced QB and Lines going into the year and was picked to finish behind Florida, Alabama, Ole Miss and Georgia if not worse.

Here we are right were we were supposed to be, or a little bit better and we lost a tough game that we had an opportunity to steal away from the opponent.

I personally want to hear what Miles has to say about the calling at the end of the game today but he has and did REPEATEDLY except responsibility for the game management and the loss.

I don’t buy that he has consistently had a management problem – He has given many last minute cool as a cucumber just win moments.

Back when they changed the possesion clock rules Les Miles was one of the few coaches that didn’t have issues.

He had mature team leadership at the time and competent QBs that didn’t have to be handheld.

Honestly, I am personally embarrased to be a Tiger Fan these days. We boo 19 year olds playing their hearts out for our beloved LSU and when a guy that spurnned his own alma-matter to divert a distraction for our team to win an SEC Championship (NC wasn’t on the table at that point) which led to a national championship can’t be given a little lee way and or loyalty I just think WE SUCK!

And by WE I mean Tiger Fans, not the Team!

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Nov 23, 2009 10:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

We are a rabid, unforgiving fan base...

OK, I’ll grant you that Miles blew the time management in this game, but we knew he wasn’t good at that after his first season. Gotta take the good with the bad there. Yep, he screwed up. Bitch about it, move on…

Crowton needs to be gone at the end of this season. No question. He may have the brilliance of John Nash in his play development, but it looks like the dementia is setting in as well. I do wonder if he sometimes stays up late at night scribbling plans for bizarre, outlandish plays across his office walls. Some fresh blood in the OC job will cure a lot of the ills we have now.

Now, why is it that being an LSU fan seems to entail a lot of doom and gloom with very little upside. I can understand being down about not winning the game. I can certainly understand being frustrated about our coach blowing clock management, despite the possible reasons it happened. But why, oh why, does each loss, setback, or even a bad win entail that we call for the head of our coach, any staff, and any players we deem sizeable for the headman’s axe. We have lost a large portion of our a-list players to injury. We have a 19-year-old QB who has not had much time to learn the game (especially with our bizarre play-calling). And to top it all off, we expect nothing less than miracles from these guys. I find it really sad (actually, pathetic) that we can’t support our team and give them something to feel good about, rather than being a bunch of spoiled brats along the lines of USC fans. (OK, yeah, I threw that one in to get your attention.) Now, I’m sure there is some of this “good vibes” stuff going on and I just don’t see it from my vantage point. Perhaps there is a lot of it going on. If so, that’s phenomenal and I will tip my hat (if I wore one) to those fans! But it sure seems like I see a lot more doom, gloom, and naysaying going on around here than not. And I know that if I played for a school that had fans like that, it sure wouldn’t help much with my morale and team spirit. OK, we aren’t playing for a BCS bowl. Damn, that would have been nice. We’ll do it next year. Oh well, lets try to get the best bowl we can and kick the crap outta the team we play. Isn’t that what college football is all about?

by MuddyBayou on Nov 23, 2009 11:04 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I can agree with a lot of that.

I would like our next victory to come before a bowl game, if that’s not too much to ask (even if it has to come wearing shitty looking uniforms).

by artiger on Nov 23, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Concur.

Blockquoted paragraph The horrible decision to wait 15 seconds to call our last timeout was indefensible. The decision to try to spike the ball instead of rushing the field goal unit out was less so. The field goal unit probably would not have been able to get the snap off. Unfortunately, the proper thing to do in that situation was probably to try to run a play to the end zone. There just wasn’t time to do anything else, and that’s because of that last timeout. Heck, had we called it immediately, we probably could have run a spike, then a play to the end zone, and THEN kicked the field goal after the big catch by Toliver.

This

by 12NationalChampionships on Nov 23, 2009 11:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Richard,

this is a very good analysis of the game and the situations. I am glad to see someone admitting that Ole Miss pushed LSU around for 59 minutes and that there was questionable officiating.

LSU fans: Les Miles has won a crap ton of games. 99% of the schools in the country would kill for what y’all have done with him there. Don’t ruin it for yourselves.

by BrianWalker'sElbow on Nov 23, 2009 11:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe you're right. But would you trade Nutt for Miles?

A lot of the scorn is on Crowton. Miles’ seat will cool a bit if he wins this week and does OK in a bowl.

Consider this though—Had we managed to steal that game (emphasize the word steal), what would the reaction have been toward Nutt? I realize that Nutt’s and Miles’ situation is apples and oranges, but Nutt has taken Ole Miss to impressive levels in two seasons. How much of that would be forgotten if our game had slipped away?

by artiger on Nov 23, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting question...

I don’t think I would trade right now, but it’s hard to say how they’d do if their situations were reversed. Both walked into decent situations, but I think LSU had a lot more talent than Nutt inherited at Ole Miss. LSU probably still has better overall depth this year.

by OxfordAndrew on Nov 23, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"Heck, had we called it immediately, we probably could have run a spike, then a play to the end zone, and THEN kicked the field goal after the big catch by Toliver."

I sure hope not. If the scenario you outlined happened, and he threw to the end zone when all we needed was a field goal from the 6 yard line, could you imagine what the fans would be saying? There’s no way in heck you do that. You kick the field goal. You don’t run a worthless play to the endzone.

by Ianoka on Nov 24, 2009 10:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs