via i297.photobucket.com. If a great player makes a great play but the referees and replay officials aren't good enough to recognize it, is he really that great of a player?
over 2 years ago
Richard Pittman
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not to get another dead horse for beating
But he hadn’t tucked the ball away at that point, aka full control.
Fumbles. It was always Fumbles
I don't think that's the rule.
Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.
by Richard Pittman on Nov 9, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
Because it's not the rule
Honestly Bammers need to give this one up. It was an interception. Everybody recognizes it, it’s not like its just us at this blog. Just drop it. It doesn’t mean LSU would have won the game. It just means Patrick Peterson should have one more interception in his ledger and that the SEC officials screwed up. That’s it.
by Billy Gomila on Nov 9, 2009 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
"Just drop it"
Were you talking to DocFumbles? ‘Cause he isn’t the one still posting more “evidence” on a Monday. I mean, I realize you just have La Tech coming up, but if you want everyone to move on, you need to do the same.
by HarveyBirdmanAAL on Nov 9, 2009 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
Why..
are you being coy? Billy obviously means drop trying to make excuses for an obviously terrible call; not drop the issue entirely, because there is an issue here. Also why is “evidence” in quotations? Wasn’t the question whether or not his feet were in bounds? Don’t tell me now it has shifted to whether Peterson tucking the ball can be misconstrued as not maintaining possession. What next?
At the end of the day
Too many questions...
are you being coy?
Mostly.
Also why is "evidence" in quotations? Wasn’t the question whether or not his feet were in bounds?
No, the applicable question is: what did the referee and replay official determine happened on the play. Their perception is reality.
Don’t tell me now it has shifted to whether Peterson tucking the ball can be misconstrued as not maintaining possession. What next?
I haven’t put that particular argument forth into this conversation.
Now, I have a question for you: Why not just “drop it”?
by HarveyBirdmanAAL on Nov 10, 2009 12:17 AM CST up reply actions
Wasn’t the question whether or not his feet were in bounds?
it seems that’s what most people are focusing on, but I’ve always maintained that possession was part of it. The first thing the replay official will do is decide when possession is firmly established, and that’s a judgment call. A lot of the pundits seem to assume that it was immediately after the ball hit Peterson’s hands. I think it was close to then, but the replay guy has to judge it by a pretty high standard (i.e. indisputable video evidence).
If you watch the slow motion replay very closely, Peterson catches the ball between his hands, brings it down and in, then tucks it between his side and his right hand. Did he trap it to assist in getting it under control? I don’t think so, but is it 100% certain? Maybe not. If the replay official was 95% certain, what does he do?
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
"Just drop it"
Sez the Bama fan still trolling on the LSU blog.
“Hey, pot. It’s me, kettle. You’re black.”
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com
It's not...you don't have to tuck the ball against your chest
to establish a catch. Pure robbery.
Moving on. With Loston in the backfield next year with Peterson we could have one of the best secondaries in the country.
right, you don’t have to tuck it. But the act of tucking it can make it unclear whether there’s full possession. Sometimes a player will bring the ball into their chest without having it under full control. I know this is very iffy, I’m just trying to think of a rationale that the replay official might have been using.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
Ironically, I think if he just held it with his hands it might have been overturned by the replay official. By tucking it (using one hand if I recall) you introduce a sliver of doubt to whether he had full control. I think he had it, but the official must have not been 100% convinced to the standard required to overrule the call on the field.
I just wish that the SEC would release their findings so all the speculation can end. /shrug.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
It gave it a chance to move
With his foot right next to the white by the time it got more secure
Fumbles. It was always Fumbles
I think this level of parsing brings diminishing returns
While I guess it’s possible that the head official on Saturday is a modern day Marcus Aurelius, I think the mostly likely scenario is that he just wasn’t going to overturn a call on the field that would go against an undefeated Alabama team at home in the most important football game of the weekend. Not even if Julio Jones and Nick Saban themselves were signaling “catch.”
If this exact play, with all the available camera angles, occurs in Lexington during a Vanderbilt/UK game at 1:30 on some Saturday in early October, maybe the official has the balls to overturn it. But not in this game. There’s every conceivable reason not to do that.
What’s more, I don’t blame that official one bit. I don’t think any of us would have the balls to overturn it either. The official can cite — plausibly — every piece of reasoning that the bammers have supplied on this site over the last few days in order to suggest that the evidence to overturn was not “irrefutable.” And he should, because that’s his prerogative when considering a replay challenge. LSU did plenty of other dumb shit to earn that loss and I’m reasonably sure that the better team won.
But as for continuing to nitpick at this one play, who cares, it’s fun. It certainly doesn’t affect LSU’s preparation for Tech at all. We’re not the players and coaches. This blog can spend the next 10 years obsessing solely over the 2006 Auburn game for all it will matter on the field in Baton Rouge on Saturday.
Besides, I’m sure Richard prefers this little avenue of bammer schadenfreude to going out to watch the hayseeds from Sylacauga and Coaling dry-humping Paul Bryant’s statue outside of Bryant Denny and softly pleading “Jis giv us one mur champ’nchip, Bar!”
People, please. We're all frightened and horny, but we can't let some killer dolphins keep us from living and scoring
by Man Mountain on Nov 10, 2009 2:14 AM CST up reply actions
Last paragraph
Humbly excellent
Lee Corso: How would you describe tailgating at Alabama?
Kirk Herbstreit: Barbecue and Ralph Lauren
by animalcracker on Nov 10, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
I wish I had an emoticon
for this particular post. I’d use the banghead one.
When I thought I was out…they pull me back in!
this bama fan
is pretty damn sure it was an interception and has felt that way from the first time i saw it live. now what do we do??
Then talk to the rest of your brethren about something called denial.
by Billy Gomila on Nov 10, 2009 8:19 AM CST up reply actions
ok fine
let’s go to pretend land and say every bama fan has acquiesced and accepted this play as a missed call and an interception. i’ll ask again…now what do we do??
by gerry dorsey on Nov 10, 2009 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
yeah you're right
b/c a bama fan posted this picture last night.
by gerry dorsey on Nov 10, 2009 8:56 AM CST up reply actions
Excuse me
Which fans are on an LSU blog trying to argue the point?
Just give it up.
by Billy Gomila on Nov 10, 2009 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
hey billy
go back all of five posts…i’m supporting the point. remember??
and don’t even try to give me the johnny come lately routine. even richard will tell you i’ve been commenting on his work since there were only a few people who even knew he was writing. so don’t act like i just floated over here after a controversial play to start a flame war or something.
by gerry dorsey on Nov 10, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions
There are only like 10 regular commenters on this website
The only point I was trying to make was that they would’ve been tired of talking amongst themselves about it by now if there weren’t other people furthering the conversation.
You're also acting like the only ones perpetuating this argument are LSU fans
Which is a mis-characterization. This picture was posted in response to Bama fans refusing to recognize the obvious.
As we said in the roundtable — you want to say the interception is meaningless because Bama would have won anyway — that’s fine. But do nottell me that wasn’t an interception.
by Billy Gomila on Nov 10, 2009 9:40 AM CST up reply actions
Hahaha
I feel like I’m saying the same thing y’all are, but you’re already all keyed up at bama nation and therefore me by default, so I’ll shut up now.
Hopefully officiating will get better. Lord knows I don’t want to see bama deal with something like that in one of their big games coming up.
by gerry dorsey on Nov 10, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions
If you hear "Huey Lewis and the News"
In the background at work today, please ignore the well-dressed guy in a suit putting a raincoat behind you and holding an axe lol.
by Billy Gomila on Nov 10, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
Do you guys remember Prothro's amazing catch?
All the Bama fans that say that the LSU player had to tuck in the ball to get “full control,” I would ask you if you really believe that’s the rule, because then Prothro’s catch (whichh is definitely a catch) should have never even been questioned, because he never tucked the ball…
by “all the bama fans”, you mean 1 comment by 1 guy. As I said earlier,
right, you don’t have to tuck it.
However, I do believe that whether he tucked the ball with full control or used his chest to trap the ball was an issue for the replay official working under the “indisputable” standard.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
In that picture?
And that picture is at the point at which Peterson’s already caught the ball with both hands and is bringing the ball in. You can tell because Julio is already well out of bounds and his hands are no longer extended.
At this point, you’ve lost all semblance of objectivity.
CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!
It's also pass interference...
… on Patrick Johnson (his mama named him Patrick Johnson, I’mma call him Patrick Johnson); he shoved Julio out of bounds. (Ironically, Julio isn’t his real name either, but I don’t want to look it up right now.)
That picture
makes me feel exactly like this:
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com/images/admin/Doucet_PI_Auburn_06.jpg
Your thought
about “is a great player really a great player…” is pure poetry and exactly what I was saying in far less eloquent terms…
Wow.
Great picture.
Lee Corso: How would you describe tailgating at Alabama?
Kirk Herbstreit: Barbecue and Ralph Lauren
Maybe im crazy..
But i don’t think the refs had this angle to look at….also..few people (at least rational ones) are saying it was a catch but that the video evidence didn’t prove or show that his foot was in bounds…
But again..call me crazy.
Scoring against Alabama will be like birthing a child: rare, painful, and messy. - The Ghost of Jay Cutler
Look at the Ref
Obligatory disclaimers: Bama fan. Think it looked more like a pick than not.
But the referee is 15 yards away from the play and his view of the play is blocked by your #3. The other ref (down the field) isn’t even in the picture, and there’s no way he would have been able to see the ball through Patterson’s body. Calling it a horrible blown call isn’t fair to the refs. I’m pretty sure they missed it, but look at what they had available for visuals in real time. I’ve read (though I’m no expert on the subject) that the correct default call is incomplete if you aren’t sure the guy had possession in bounds.
That puts the onus on the replay official. But I’m pretty sure the replay booth didn’t have this picture/angle to review. The main shot they played over and over didn’t clearly show both Patterson’s hands and feet together—you could focus in on one or the other, but not both. And the right foot was cut off at the bottom of the shot. Should it have been called a pick? Probably so. But should it have been overturned? Not under the current rule of “indisputable” evidence.
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