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We Don't Need a Big Name OC

We're all assuming right now that Gary Crowton is on his way out.  It's one of those situations that has a lot of smoke, with 1) a whole lot of suckitude coming out of our offense this year, and 2) rumors of a genuine rift between Crowton and Miles.

A lot of names have been bounced around as replacements, from Charlie Weis to Steve Kragthorpe to Norm Chow and others.  I don't see a whole lot of point in saying, "I want us to get [insert rising young superstar coach or former unsuccessful head coach who may be looking to get back to what made him so popular in the first place]."  It's just too uncertain at this point, and we don't actually know if there will be an opening.  Assuming there is one, I would have nothing against hiring a Steve Kragthorpe, but I just want to remind everyone that sometimes the big name isn't a very successful hire and sometimes it's better to go with someone who is lesser-known.

In thinking about the OC position, I keep going back to what Alabama did before the 2008 season.  Nick Saban had previously hired rising superstar coach Major Applewhite to be his offensive coordinator.  Applewhite had as much name recognition as any offensive coordinator in the country, but was mainly traveling on his success as a player rather than his accomplishments as a coach.  In 2007, under Major Applewhite, the Bama team had serious offensive deficiencies and limped to a 6-6 regular season.

With Applewhite out of the picture following that season, Saban hired a relatively young, but not super-young, offensive coordinator whose previous experience was at Fresno State.  Jim McIlwain wasn't on anyone's list of hot young coaches looking to move up in the world, but a funny thing happened.  Bama's offense improved.  Part of that was due to an influx of young talent: Mark Ingram, Julio Jones; but quite a lot of it was just due to him figuring out what his veterans like Glen Coffee and John Parker Wilson could do well and having them do it, while playing within their comfort zones, and emphasizing competence over flashiness.

It wasn't a splashy hire, but Bama's offense went from suspect to solid.  Saban went out and hired someone he could work well with and whose offense complemented his attacking style of defense.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least if we tried, consciously or not, to emulate that decision process.

I'm not advocating anyone in particular, and it wouldn't surprise or disappoint me if the person Miles ultimately hires is someone I have not yet heard of.  Personally, the idea I like the best of the ones I've heard is to go get Todd Monken if the Jacksonville Jaguars decide to clean house.  Monken is a former WR coach at LSU and is a very good coach who would probably return to college to take an offensive coordinator position.  I won't be disappointed if it doesn't happen, but I suppose it may.

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To put another way

Let’s not think about “winning the press conference”. Let’s just hire a guy who can do the job.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Dec 2, 2009 7:28 AM CST reply actions  

Sorry

I didn’t use proper reply protocol…

True that!

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Dec 2, 2009 8:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Can we talk about this statement?
rumors of a genuine rift between Crowton and Mile

What does this mean?

At the beginning of the year the sexy thing to post on message boards was “Miles is handcuffing Crowton”. When I’d ask those guys for details I’d get vague answeres like, “Well, I know what a Crowton offense looks like, and LSU isn’t running it”.

I interpreted those types of responses as, “I’m pissed off at the team, and I’m blaming Miles rather than Crowton”. And I’ll be honest I had a genuine man crush on Crowton after the 2007 season. I loved his multiple looks, and I thought his play calling was excellent. So I had a hard time siding with Miles on this at first…

But a funny thing happened in 2008 for me. As the season wore on, I was less and less upset with the Jarrett Lee Frick-up-a-thon, and more and more upset with Gary Crowton’s play calling. I didn’t think he was tailoring his play calling to his QB’s strengths and weaknesses.

Now in 2009, we hear Miles say things like “we had a want to get Shep more touches”. Or “We had a want to throw the ball down field more” etc. We know those things aren’t happening with much consistency. We also know that when we throw down the field and get Shep more touches our offense performs. So who is to blame?

My opinion is the exact opposite of the common message board banter that Miles is handcuffing Crowton. My opinion is that Crowton is screwing this thing up by himself, and that Miles’ suggestions are being ignored by Crowton. I don’t think Miles is involved enough in the offense.

by LSU Jonno on Dec 2, 2009 8:50 AM CST reply actions  

great point

excellent post Jonno and i feel the same way. a guy that i tailgated with kept saying it was crowton’s fault and i was like you thinking “someone doesn’t just forget how to coach”.

but these two past years have been abysmal and i went from “miles is handcuffing crowton” to “the crowton two year theory applies here too”.

as someone else used to say…“it’s time to move on…”

by Justin Goar on Dec 2, 2009 11:30 AM CST reply actions  

Right

I don’t think that Crowton forgot how to coach either. Which goes back to what I think the actual problem is. In 2007 we had a veteran QB.

If Crowton is dealt a hand with veteran players that can soley focus on his formations they will probably have great success. (Although from what I can remember we had a lot of offensive penalties in 2007, and for that matter Flynn threw a lot of pics too)

If Crowton has to worry about coaching up his QB, teaching his players how to read defenses, check-offs etc. there may not be enouch practice time at the college level to be able to run his schemes effectively. We’ve talked this a lot on this site. This year there are also rumors of opposing teams knowing our plays based on our personnel packages and if that is the case well that is just a massive failure of not “self-scouting” yourself.

Basically, it appears that Crowton needs a QB who is in his 3rd year of school (at least) to run his system effectively. I say at least because RP ran his system in 2007 much more effectively than Jarrett Lee has this year. That doesn’t mean that Crowton’s system can’t work, because obviously it did in 2007, but it means your margin for error in QB recruiting went from small to non-existant.

by LSU Jonno on Dec 2, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Crowton

Crowton’s offenses have regressed everywhere from year 1 to year 2 to year 3. Everywhere he’s been. That’ s a disturbing trend, regardless of he has experienced QBs or not. Because of this is now at least the 3rd time this has happened (BYU, Oregon, here), I think it’s foolish to think he has the ability to turn it around. We need a new OC, in the worst way.

by amiznit on Dec 2, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Scheme

Seems so fundamental to have the offense suit the strengths of players, especially the QB. How hard headed whould you have to be to do otherwise?

An ego can be a terrible thing.

by bcooper on Dec 2, 2009 11:46 AM CST reply actions  

The only problem with hiring a new, unheard of guy

is that if he is successful be will leave for a head coaching job. All in all though, I think it can be a great thing to get a unheard of guy if he can do the job.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
St. Louis vegetarian blog

by Gregatron on Dec 2, 2009 12:28 PM CST reply actions  

re: The only problem with hiring a new, unheard of guy

Yeah but LSU would stand to benefit off his success. That would be great. Having assistants that other schools want is a good thing.

by amiznit on Dec 2, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, he could end up as head coach at Florida St.

by uberschuck on Dec 2, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I have thoughts on this

But I’ll wait till a later date to say something…things are still too speculative right now.

by Billy Gomila on Dec 2, 2009 1:31 PM CST reply actions  

C'mon Billy

You can’t post something like that and not at least give us a hint or two!

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Dec 2, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Want vs. Need

I agree LSU doesn’t need to hire a big name. But I don’t see why we wouldn’t want one. All other things being equal, I would rather get someone who has shown that he can be successful on a big stage than hiring an unknown. All new hires are crapshoots to some degree, but someone with a resume gives you a bit more confidence that they know what they’re doing. It also helps recruiting to have a guy who can talk about the successes he has had. Supposedly Chavis was a big influence in getting Sam Montgomery last year and we heard about Janzen Jackson wanting to play for Monte at Tennessee.

LSU’s a big enough program that we shouldn’t need to promote some unknown to a high visibility program. In McElwain’s case, I don’t think that really qualifies as an unknown. He may not have been the biggest name out there, but previous experience as an OC at a consistently winning mid-major is good prep for a BCS OC role.
Promoting a position coach to OC, which all of a sudden requires a different set of preparation and game time skills is more of a stretch to me. In Monken’s case specifically though, I would much rather see him than Kragthorpe. Kragthorpe had a lot of success at Tulsa, but his offenses really stunk it up at Louisville.

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Dec 2, 2009 3:49 PM CST reply actions  

A few things to keep in mind

IF there’s a move:
—think about people with connections to either Miles, other members of the staff, LSU or the region/conference.

—think about people who typically run an offense similar to what LSU does now. Don’t expect this team to turn into a Rich Rodriguez spread-n-shred running game, or a Texas Tech air-raid attack either.

—think realistically —> most NFL coordinators or vested assistants are in the NFL for a reason. The money is comparable with different hours (you don’t have to spend several hours a day/week recruiting), AND, NFL coaches have a pension and benefits (though they are getting reduced). I know some people would love to see Curtis Johnson at LSU, and that’d be great, but you just don’t see coaches who have been in the NFL (and are doing the awesome job he’s doing with the Saints) making moves like that except for special circumstances.

—think about people with track records. People jump on the coordinator of the hot offense of the minute, and that’s great, but everybody has highs and lows and comes down to earth. Miles is a guy who values consistency, so he’s going to look for somebody who’s proven that when you give him the players, he’ll pile up the points.

by Billy Gomila on Dec 2, 2009 4:20 PM CST reply actions  

I agree with all of that!

Though having the Saints offense would pretty much lock up the next ten NCs give or take a few.

Holy smokes, who dat!!!!

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Dec 2, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

But that's my point

Some people are throwing names out there like Johnson and the chances of him coming back to the college game (where he’s never even served as an off. coordinator mind you) are not all that great.

by Billy Gomila on Dec 2, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not that excited about NFL OCs or head coaches

While the Saints offense is the greatest show on earth right now, try to imagine it without Drew Brees. We’re all complaining because Crowton’s offense only seems to work with fifth year seniors. I’m a Jefferson fan, but imagine him trying to make some of the reads and throws that are required of Brees in that offense.

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Dec 2, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

NFL offenses are a completely different ballgame. One thing we could definitely use is a QB coach though, that’s probably Crowton’s biggest weakness.

by Ianoka on Dec 2, 2009 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Crap.

It’s Al Borges, isn’t it?

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Dec 2, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

As far as running an offense similar to ours

What exactly is our offense? Balanced? We run both the spread and the I-formation. I would definitely rather see us lean towards the spread rather than the I-form like Bama. The spread is just much more adaptable to personnel, and it is much better for taking advantages of mismatches.

As far as specific names, even though Chow doesn’t run a spread offense, that would be a great hire. Our two coordinators would be in their 50’s or 60’s, not much desire for a head coaching job, and they would be content to stick around for a while.

by Ianoka on Dec 2, 2009 5:37 PM CST up reply actions  

In theory, that's what our offense is SUPPOSED to be

But like I said, its not going to be a 50-pass a game guy, but it’s not going to be Dave Rader either.

This isn’t to say I know who it’s going to be or that there’s definitely even going to BE a change, but what I’m saying is these are the guidelines to look along when you try to guess on candidates.

by Billy Gomila on Dec 2, 2009 6:18 PM CST up reply actions  

There are rumors

and I emphasize unsubstantiated rumors of Crowton and Miles having shouting matches with each other after the Florida and Ole Miss games.

What is substantiated is that Miles threw Crowton under the bus after Ole Miss when he stated that he wanted a running play on the play Jefferson got sacked but he let Crowton talk him into another pass play. I think he also mentioned that the spike signal came down from the booth and was relayed to Jefferson by one of the signallers.

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Dec 2, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions  

If what Miles said was true

It’s not throwing Crowton under the bus. It is accountability. Yeah, Miles is accountable too, but I’ve got no problem pointing the finger where it should be pointed.

The Florida game was an embarrassment. A highschooler could have had the same result coaching the offense in that game.

by LSU Jonno on Dec 3, 2009 7:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Let's not absolve the defense in that game..

sure, they didn’t give up a lot of points, but our offense only had 8 possessions the entire game, because Florida controlled the ball constantly.

Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.

And The Valley Shook

by Richard Pittman on Dec 3, 2009 8:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Understand and agree

But, I just can’t poo poo the DEF too much this year when the OFF has been unable to do anything.

by LSU Jonno on Dec 3, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Other than giving up a bunch of fouth quarter points,

That game was a microcosm of the season. The D gave up a ton of yards, then stiffened inside the thirty, giving up mostly field goal attempts.

The O couldn’t get a drive going, and without a short field, couldn’t score points.

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Dec 3, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

"Throwing under the bus"

is maybe a bit inflammatory, but it was so out of character for Miles to call out an assistant (or player), that’s exactly what I thought when I read the quote.

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Dec 3, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

I would add one more thing to remember

This may not apply to the RB coach position, which is already open, but IF there are any other changes, don’t expect any real movement till after the bowl game. Just how these things are done.

by Billy Gomila on Dec 2, 2009 10:35 PM CST reply actions  

One guy to keep an eye on

Steve Logan. OC at BC before leaving for the NFL (Tampa, so he might want to leave)

Was a head coach at East Carolina, and developed Matt Ryan.

Fumbles. It was always Fumbles

by DocFumbles on Dec 2, 2009 11:41 PM CST reply actions  

I have no idea what he was responsible for, whether it was the offense/defense or whatever

but Mark Mangino is now available. Then again, the offensive coordinator position at LSU is still not officially available, so who knows.

by Ianoka on Dec 3, 2009 6:46 PM CST reply actions  

Actually, maybe not

Just read these two articles:
http://deadspin.com/5408413/your-daily-mark-mangino-harassment-update
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2009/nov/19/not-so-gentle-reign/

I doubt we’ll consider him, especially in light of the situation with McCarthy. I don’t mind the verbal things, but forcing people to play through injuries, which later caused MORE injuries, is pretty bad.

by Ianoka on Dec 3, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Mangino's probably finding himself in a Franchione situation

He’s going to need a rehab job — probably at a smaller school. Really has to rebuild his image.

Chances are, there was more to his firing than just his issues with his players. He probably had issues with other people in the KU athletic department. Piss people off, and nobody has your back when the losses pile up. Weiss had a similar problem.

by Billy Gomila on Dec 3, 2009 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

With Mangino's bad press these days..

I’d rather steer clear of him.

Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.

And The Valley Shook

by Richard Pittman on Dec 4, 2009 6:17 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

I think we need a couple of hard asses on the staff to offset Miles’ tendency to be friends with the players (and I don’t think that’s a bad thing, just that you need both styles on a staff), but some of the things that have come out about Mangino are way over the line.

CHAD JONES! WOOOO!!!!

by The Bengal on Dec 4, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

You can't be saying we should

consider this guy for a coaching position can you?

The guy is barely above .500 for his career and frankly he’s a jerk.

I was joking about the Fat Charlie thing, but this one is not even funny!

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Dec 4, 2009 5:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Mangino

The dude coached at Kansas. The last time a coach left Kansas with a winning record was in the 1960’s. (Thank you Rivals radio)

Mangino is a pretty good coach, and I’m pretty sure he was either Texas Tech’s OC or Oklahoma’s OC at one time. Can’t remember which.

by LSU Jonno on Dec 4, 2009 8:32 AM CST up reply actions  

He was on Stoops' staff at Oklahoma.

Good coordinator, but I would rather steer clear of him altogether. Plus if you think we have trouble getting our FG unit on the field now; watch if we had planet Mangino on the sidelines. ZING!

What's up Ryan? ARGHHHHHH!!! oops. ~ Patrick Chewing

by Mikeno on Dec 4, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

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