Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Explaining Jeremy Lin's Early, Surprising Success

Wide Receiver at LSU Is Not the Question Mark Some Think It Is In 2009

Tt_medium
(Photo courtesy lsusports.net)

(Disclaimer: the statistics cited in this story were compiled by using box score play-by-play charts, which cite incompletions but not who interceptions are typically intended for. So the numbers may be off by a few passes, but the larger point remains.)

Wide receiver has typically been brought up by the national punditry as one of LSU's question marks for the 2009 season. It's been a steady theme for ESPN's Chris Low, who even seems to discount the position when Tim Molton was injured this summer.

While I wouldn't say it's not somewhat of a concern (the passing game in general has to prove some things), for me it's behind quarterback, line play, special teams and the transition to the new defensive coaching staff in the question mark pecking order.

Recruiting is probably the major reason for that, as the receiver position has been consistently stocked with highly-thought of prospects for the last several seasons. The former big-time recruit that many will be eying this fall is Terrance Toliver.

Star-divide

He was the No. 1 recruit in the class of 2007, a lofty title for a class that included Dez Bryant and Arrelious Benn - and some look at 32 career catches for 506 yards and 4 TDs as the stat line of a bust. I wouldn't particularly disagree if not for 4 things: Brandon Lafell, Early Doucet, Demetrius Byrd and Richard Dickson.

Whereas players like Benn and last year's SEC freshmen sensations, Julio Jones and A.J. Green, walked into situations that called for them to be the go-to guy right away, Toliver stepped into a situation as that featured an SEC-tested senior (Doucet) that had over 100 career catches, a third-year sophomore ready to hit the starting lineup (Lafell), a 5-star junior college transfer (Byrd) and a pass-catching tight end who had started 9 games as a true freshman and followed that up with a 32-catch sophomore effort (Dickson). Thus, in a very limited role, Toliver caught just 10 passes, though he scored three times and averaged 24 yards per catch.

The sophomore year is what some point to for criticism. With Lafell and Byrd entrenched as starters, the 6-5 Hempstead, Texas native managed to double his catch total from 2007 with 22 balls, but only scored one touchdown and averaged just 11.7 per grab.

But sometimes, a wide receiver's statistics go beyond just catches and yards.

Among the statistical revolution we're seeing in football analysis from outlets like Football Outsiders, they've developed another way to judge a receiver's production: catch rate. It's basically a batting average for receivers - the percentage of passes thrown to them that are actually caught. It can judge a receivers hands and how well they separate from coverage. The typical rate for a go-to receiver, such as Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson or Steve Smith is about 60 percent, give or take a few percentage points. Last season, LSU's top target, Lafell, had a 58 percent rate - 63 catches in 107 passes thrown. Julio Jones caught 56 percent of the passes thrown their way.

In 43 passes thrown his way in 2009, Toliver's 22 completions represent a catch rate of 51 percent. It's not the stuff that All-Americans are made of, but when you consider that LSU quarterbacks completed just 52 percent of their total passes, it's a definite show of potential. It's also significant to point out that as the rate that Toliver was targeted increased, so did his catch rate. In the first four games of the season, Toliver had one catch in four passes. In the last four (which also represented the worst stretch of QB play for LSU last season), he had 13 catches in 27 targets.

This year, he'll be stepping up to option No. 2 for Jordan Jefferson. Last year's No. 2, Byrd, had a catch rate of 56-percent. For Toliver to match that rate, he would have had to have added just two more catches to his total from 2007.

What all this goes to show, is that Toliver's production, while not what one would typically expect of a super-recruit, has hardly been disappointing when you factor it proportionally to his role in LSU's offense. When the ball has been thrown his way, he's generally caught it. With no more upperclassmen in between him and the starting lineup, and almost constant positive reports of strong offseason work, Toliver isn't nearly the question mark that has been made by the Lows and Guilbeaus of the world. Expect him to make a major impact this season.

Comment 20 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Receviers

I honestly believe this is a team strength. Toliver is following pretty closely to the Brandon LaFell progression (remember when LaFell was Butterfingers?). He’s got plenty of talent and I’m supremely confident in his ability to be the #2 guy. And hopefully Randle lives up the hype. Wideout has to be one of the easiest positions for a freshman to contribute right away.

Interesting catch rates. Did you do it by going through all game data or is there a place that had the numbers?

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Aug 24, 2009 9:55 AM CDT reply actions  

Yep

Read through each game’s play-by-play and counted the number of passes intended. The only thing is that interceptions don’t get marked for their intended WR’s, so there are a few misses in there — though CST helped by showing that Jarrett Lee’s interception vs. South Carolina last year came on a very bad overthrow to Toliver.

by Billy Gomila on Aug 24, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

You can take the point further...

by examining the numbers for Bowe, Davis, Doucet, Lafell and Byrd as they progressed from 5th or 6th options upwards to 1st or 2nd options in the depth charts. I have reviewed those numbers and can say unequivocally that Toliver’s numbers are as much a result of being buried on the depth chart behind talented upperclassmen as anything else.

The only Wr of the foregoing group that bucked the trend was Doucet – but he did so because JRussell did such a great job of spreading the football around. Unlike Russell, Mauck and Flynn relied more heavily on their top 2 wrs and te … Russell found ways to get his top 3 wrs constantly involved, as well as his te.

by Jadmercury on Aug 24, 2009 10:02 AM CDT reply actions  

Very good point

Although as far as this goes “Unlike Russell, Mauck and Flynn relied more heavily on their top 2 wrs and te … Russell found ways to get his top 3 wrs constantly involved, as well as his te.”
I wonder how much is because Russell (like Davey before him) operated a lot more of shotgun and 3 wide formations while Mauck and especially Flynn operated mostly out of the I. It’s harder to spread it to three wide receivers when only two are on the field.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Aug 24, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I always liked the lineup..

that has 3 primary wide receivers and everyone else is fighting for scraps. If you look at our lineups when we’ve had really good seasons (2001, 2003, 2006, 2007) we have seemed to always have 3 keys guys who get 90% of the passes to the wideouts thrown to them. Reed, Clayton, Myers. Clayton, Henderson, Green. Bowe, Davis, Doucet. Doucet, Lafell, Byrd. Years when we haven’t been able to settle on 3, or couldn’t get 3 fully involved in the game (2004, 2008) we’ve seemed to have more trouble.

Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.

And The Valley Shook

by Richard Pittman on Aug 24, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

If anything,

JR was under center more than Flynn. We used a ton of shotgun in ’07. Crowton is first and foremost a spread guy.

by amiznit on Aug 24, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here...

Toliver
2009 ??? (starter)
2008 22 257 11.7 1 (true third option)
2007 10 249 24.9 3 (fourth option)

Lafell
2008 63 929 14.7 8 (starter)
2007 50 656 13.1 4 (second/third option)
2006 5 140 28.0 2 (fourth option)

Byrd
2008 37 513 13.9 4 (starter)
2007 35 621 17.7 7 (second/third option)

Doucet
2007 57 525 9.2 5 (starter)
2006 49 686 14.0 6 (third option)
2005 24 363 15.1 4 (third or fourth option)
2004 18 257 14.3 2 (fourth option)

Davis
2006 46 672 14.6 2 (starter)
2005 32 514 16.1 1 (starter)
2004 43 660 15.3 1 (starter)
2003 6 56 9.3 0 (fifth option)

Bowe
2006 54 833 15.4 11 (starter)
2005 40 691 17.3 9 (starter)
2004 39 596 15.3 5 (starter)
2003 9 106 11.8 0 (fourth option)

by Jadmercury on Aug 24, 2009 10:04 AM CDT reply actions  

It all Fits

Because all of these cases the player rose to fit their roles in the offense. In 2004 Bowe and Davis were essentially LSU’s top 2 true receivers with Skyler Green hurt and more a slot/utility guy then WR.

Doucet had a similar freshman year to Toliver, then his stats improved but he was also the #3 guy as a sophomore, not the 4th or 5th option like Toliver.

by Billy Gomila on Aug 24, 2009 10:11 AM CDT reply actions  

Exactly right...

Toliver wasnt thrust into the same situations as Julio Jones, AJ Green, Dez Bryant and Crabtree. None of those guys had to battle talented upper classmen to get on the field that were anywhere near their talents even as frosh. When Toliver stepped on campus in ’07, there were 3 future NFL wrs already here.

by Jadmercury on Aug 24, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd also add

that butterfingers has not really been an issue with Toliver — at least not that I can remember. When the ball’s been on the money he’s generally caught it. Amazingly, Lee still managed to overthrow him a few times last year.

by Billy Gomila on Aug 24, 2009 10:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Amazing is right...

LSU has wrs at 6-3, 6-3 and 6-5 this year (not to mention Dickson at 6-3). You’d think Jefferson could succeed well enough on jump balls alone.

by Jadmercury on Aug 24, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dickson

Not to jinx us, but one of the reasons I wasn’t worried about the QB’s last season (wrongly, it turned out) was because of Dickson at TE. I figured even the most marginally competent quarterback would be able to hit Dickson on underneath routes to keep the ball moving. Honestly, I still don’t understand why he isn’t the "security blanket" for our QB’s. Our wideouts should be demanding the sort of attention that would leave a player like Dickson the freedom to run wild in the holes in coverage.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Aug 24, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd argue that we didnt get marginal qb play...

but that is a different conversation.

I do think it is beyond debate, however, that we didnt have anyone that could check down far enough to get to the TE. Rarely ever is the TE better than #2 or 3 in the progression reads. Even the success that Lee had was to his first or second reads.

by Jadmercury on Aug 24, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lee's reads

Jesus, he was awful at that. Almost all of his problems stem from his inability last season to check off the receiver. He just locks on to his primary guy which A) begs the safety to intercept the ball and B) ignores guys who might be open.

In some ways, Dickson is the key to this season. If he’s getting catches, it’s showing the QB is actually going through his reads. And I’m willing to bet he is open a lot. He’s not a big play threat really, but he is the guy who keeps the coverage honest.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Aug 24, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dickson can get downfield in a hurry actually...

one of the best passes I ever saw Russell throw was a bomb to Dickson that he caught over his shoulder against MSU. I think Dickson is one of the best TEs in the country, period. He just doesnt get the hype ’cause we dont get him the ball enough.

by Jadmercury on Aug 24, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can remember one game that we made a real effort to throw to Dickson

The MNC game against Ohio State. Crowton just did a tremendous job of getting Dickson wide open on two touchdown passes.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Aug 24, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

When you think about it

This team will be downright scary in the redzone. Mobile quarterback (and ultra-mobile change-up), power running back, two 6-3 and above receivers and a pass catching tight end. Matchup nightmare inside the 10.

by Billy Gomila on Aug 24, 2009 12:43 PM CDT reply actions  

Gorilla on LSU Receivers

Author was right on the tenet of LSU Wide Receiver corps, but in my opinion missed the most important reason, the Rueben Randle era.

by GISaTIGER on Aug 24, 2009 12:50 PM CDT reply actions  

What do people expect?

When they say we are thin at wide receiver, we have an All-SEC player coming back, a five star recruit from a couple of years ago, the best receiver from last year’s class, and an All-SEC tight end. Does our entire receiving corps have to be All-SEC to be deep? Why don’t we get the same credit as USC for reloading? We have recruited just as well as they have.

by Ianoka on Aug 24, 2009 5:43 PM CDT reply actions  

There..

are create-a-players throughout our depth chart, AND anyone who takes a contrary position to us having one of the best receiving corps and backfields in the NCAA let alone the SEC shows their knowledge for LSU football. We will just show them their ignorance this coming season.

by Mikeno on Aug 25, 2009 12:19 AM CDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about LSU Tigers. Best viewed in Wide mode

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Lsuavatar_small
ESPN: Jordan Jefferson questions game plan
Small
Show the top 2013 QB some Tiger Love, Follow him on Twitter
Lsuavatar_small
Rabalais: Liggins breaks QB mold
Small
AL fan Downing's lawyers: "ain't no crime, he was just joshin'"
Small
DeAngelo Peterson and the National Championship
Small
Miles and QBs
Small
Don: Boone is Staying
Small
1958 vs 2011
76224_20070106130217_small
I knew Les was stubborn, but wow...
Small
2012 cornerbacks

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

13 - 10

Conference

3 - 6

Lost 1


Managing Editor / Chief Lackey

Pb140006_small PodKATT

Editors

Gse_multipart30441_small Richard Pittman

Me_and_beer_small Poseur

Tower_small Billy Gomila

Paulcrewe_small Paul Crewe

Authors

Mike_snow_small actioncuse