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A Receiver! A Receiver! My Kingdom for a Receiver!

Now is the time to panic.


Hey, I preached calm when LSU didn't steal Smith from the Vols, but LSU lost a recruit to the Vols the very next day.  Justin Hunter, a four star wide receiver recruit from Virginia Beach, decommitted from the Tigers and gave his verbal to the Vols.  How quickly things change.  Not only are we not poaching Vol recruits, they are successfully raiding our class.  By the way, this leaves LSU with precisely zero receiver recruits in this class, one year after signing just one (albeit a big one in Reuben Randle).

The rumor on the message boards is that Hunter was going to be Kiffin's Signing Day Surprise, Part II and Dooley simply put the kibosh on that and just had Hunter openly announce his intentions.  We may never know if that story is true, as it's nearly impossible to confirm, but it does pass the sniff test.  Kiffin did it to us last year, Hunter is far more local to Tennessee, and Dooley only needed one visit to turn the kid.  If nothing else, it's a narrative that fits what we already believe about Kiffin and Dooley (one is a scumbag, one isn't).  On the other hand, that would require Frank Wilson to be in the dark on Hunter.  Or maybe he did know, which is why we've been pursuing every receiver prospect in the country it seems.  Who knows?

Losing Davis was no great surprise, but losing Hunter as well is a huge blow.  There's no good way to spin this.  Never get hung up on one recruit, but when you had two four-star receivers as verbals and now you have no verbals at the position at all, that's bad. 

So where do the Tigers go from here?  Well, no doubt one of those running back recruits is going to be a receiver.  I think this also solidifies the logical move of Russell Shepard to full-time receiver, where he probably belongs.  But I still think LSU needs a receiver in this class.  You can't go two years with only one receiver recruit. 

So who's on the big board?   Markeith Ambles decommitted from the Vols to make room for Hunter, which reopens his recruitment (obviously), and LSU is one of the leaders for him.  Of course, the other finalists are Alabama and USC, so the staff's work is truly cut out for them there.  Getting Ambles would be a major coup.  Hunter for Ambles is a fair trade. 


James Wright is a four-star recruit from Belle Chase and LSU is his final visit.  He's got a long list of suitors, but LSU absolutely has to close on this kid now.  He's not a can't-miss prospect, even if can't miss prospects even existed, but he's a big-time in-state recruit at a position we have a great need.  Losing him when we had Hunter and Davis was no big deal, now it's a critical loss. 


Or we can steal someone ourselves.  Jarrett Fobbs is a Texas A&M commit, but he's getting the full-court press.    Kadron Boone is a Florida kid, but he's committed to Texas Tech.  He's still on the board as well.  Or, LSU can throw the hail mary and steal Trovon Reed from Auburn.  That's the dream scenario, getting the #1 recruit in the state, especially since he fills a need and he's from Thibodaux.  But that is a long, long shot and we shouldn't hold our breath.

If we get Wright, the damage isn't too bad.  We just lost one receiver and got one of similar quality.  But if LSU can get Wright and either Ambles or Reed... well, that would be a home run.  Miles hasn't been having his best month, but he's always been able to hang his hat on recruiting.  Well, he absolutely must finish strong to demonstrate the program isn't slipping.  It's not one guy, it's the big picture.  And the picture is starting to get fuzzy. 

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Miles hasn’t been having his best month, but he’s always been able to hang his hat on recruiting.

A month ago that sentance would have read, “Miles hasn’t been having his best month, but he’s always been able to hang his hat on recruiting, and blowing up teams in major bowl games.”

by LSU Jonno on Jan 20, 2010 10:52 AM CST reply actions  

And not to throw gasoline on the fire

but it now sounds like Cassius Marsh is now wavering to UCLA. DT was probably the next position of need with both starters (Woods and Alexander) graduating.

by The Bengal on Jan 20, 2010 10:58 AM CST reply actions  

Absolutely

Its hard to get good info on recruiting since so much of it is rumor and innuendo, so I’m not hitting the panic button on Marsh just yet. It’s always hard to beat the hometown school for an out of state recruit. It’s not surprising he’s beginning to waiver as it becomes more real that he is about to commit to a school over 1000 miles from his family.

The staff just has to stay on this one. Marsh is another huge part of this class. Also, we need to avoid the perception of a team moving backwards.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 20, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

This is what I'm sick of

All the drama. And the thing is, yeah, LSU’s recent games are playing a role in this, but every school is sweating out recruits at this point and its really annoying.

by Billy Gomila on Jan 20, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Calm down

Panic time has not arrived, and it never will arrive. Only losers panic over recruitment. We’re stronger than that.

Jrlz rhymes with Charles.

by Jrlz on Jan 20, 2010 11:37 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

I hope you realize I was joking

I know sometimes people miss my acerbic wit. You’re right, it’s never panic time. Hell, at worst, this will be a top 20 class in a down year for LA high school talent. Which would still be a good, solid class.

Besides, we have our sights set on 2011’s class.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 20, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Good write up Poseur

Apologize if I was over critical of the last one but just felt that tone being set was apathetic.

by The Voice of Reason on Jan 21, 2010 9:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Completely disagree.

Poseur is mostly right. It may not be time to panic quite yet because it isn’t signing day yet, but if we sign only one WR this year, yes it is time to panic.

You can’t wait until you start to see problems on the field to worry about recuiting. At that point, you are 1-3 years away from fixing the problem. Only signing 1 or 2 WRs in the past two years is a very very big problem. In the last 2 years we’ve graduated, Byrd, Lafell, Jared Mitchell, Chris Mitchell, RJ Jackson, and have lost Ricky Dixon and Tim Moulton to atrition. There may be more that I’m missing but let’s just leave it at those 7 guys. To this point we’ve replaced those 7 guys, with one guy, Randle.
Yes, we probably had a log jam of WRs the last 4 years that needed to be spread out, but now we have very little depth. Once again, horrible roster management by this staff.

by LSU Jonno on Jan 20, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Shocking you feel that way

Negativity coming from Jonno? I’m stunned. And the solution is to panic? Awesome.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 20, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Poseur

You just wrote an entire piece about how this was a major blow, after you made several comments about it being a major blow on a previous post. And you actually used the term panic.

Maybe you were attempting to be sarcastic, and failed horribly, or maybe you just weren’t satisfied with how the public would recieve your piece after you read Dandy Don today.

Not one ounce of your above article implies “sarcasm”. And I find it hard to believe that someone with as much writing experience as you would fail to find a way to make yourself clear.

I may be more negative about the state of our program than most readers of this site, but at least I don’t claim sarcasm every time someone disagrees with my points.

by LSU Jonno on Jan 20, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Read the whole piece

I truly believe that if a reader misses the point, the fault usually lies with the author for not being clear enough, so I do apologize if that.

But the opening of “now is the time to panic” was hopefully tempered by the fact I outlined a plan on what to do. I don’t back down from the central thesis that Hunter’s decommitment is bad, but I don’t actually reccommend we just panic. I focused on the players LSU now has to get, and even how they can turn this into a positive (while also admitting it’s a long shot – I’d place our odds at getting Reed somewhere around 1-5%)

So… I’m not saying my entire post was sarcasm. It wasn’t. Losing Hunter is bad. But the part about panicking, I thought, clearly was a joke given that the rest of the article was a plan on how to move forward. If that wasn’t clear, that is my fault and I apologize to the audience.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 20, 2010 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, that is a good explanation...

Now, about your comment to my post…Tthere wasn’t really anything that I said in my comment that was any different than yours.

I said it wasn’t time to panic until signing day. A lot can still happen. I’m going to infer by your explanation above that if the plan that you outlined didn’t come to fruition that even you would think it was time to panic. Which was basically what I just said.

It may not be time to panic quite yet because it isn’t signing day yet, but if we sign only one WR this year, yes it is time to panic.

What about that leads you to believe that I am being any more negative than you?

by LSU Jonno on Jan 20, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

It's the discussion

The use of bold text is a start. And that you closed it with "Once again, horrible roster management by this staff." How is this horrible roster management, much less again?

Even with graduation and attrition, LSU only has two upper classmen wideouts (Toliver and Williams). On the depth chart, we’ll have loads of sophomores due to redshirts and changes of position (Randle, Shepard, Taylor, and Tolliver). We’ll convert a running back and Vinson (ATH) to WR. Which adds two more plus whoever we still can pull in. Even if we don’t get another WR recruit, which would be bad, LSU will likely go into next season with 4 sophomores and 2 freshmen on the WR depth chart.

I think the difference in negativity is that we try and foster a "well, what do we do?" sort of atmosphere and not simply throw up our hands and say we’re doomed. I think we’re on the same page when it comes to identifying this problem, we just differ in our solutions.

And I hope this is no way read as an attempt to run you off or stifle debate. I think having Jonno’s gloom usually fosters good discussion, which is what we’re all about.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 20, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the difference in negativity is that we try and foster a “well, what do we do?” sort of atmosphere and not simply throw up our hands and say we’re doomed

I don’t think anyone has thrown their hands up saying we’re doomed. I certainly never have.
But the facts are this staff has already had to move to plan B when Davis decommitted and when Reed committed to AU. Now losing Hunter and discussing moving players to WR from other positions is likely a plan C. You’ve already outlined this as “The Plan”, but it’s really “our only option”. We’ll see how well it works out for us. But clearly we all agree that we need a big time WR to sign with us before Feb 3rd.

How is this horrible roster management, much less again?

I’m not going to try to explain why being in a position 2 weeks from signing day where we are void of any commits at a position of need is poor roster management. I think that should be pretty obvious. Instead I’ll answer the question of “again?” by just point out our lack of depth at D-line or lack of a starting quality fullback this past year. Another supporting topic would be why do we have more scholarship O-lineman than any team in the country (exaggeration) yet have one of the poorest O-lines in the country? It seems like we are over signing on the O-line at the expense of other positions, yet aren’t seeing any real benefit (yet) to our abundance of scholarship offensive linemen.

by LSU Jonno on Jan 20, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Perfectly fair

But, as pointed out millions of time, LSU suffered some horrible O-line attrition from a highly rated group, which has really hampered the team. BTW – among fullbacks, I love Stamp and want him to earn a starting job. The o-line deficeincy isn’t really roster managment, but just poor execution.

And I think we all agree with this:

we need a big time WR to sign with us before Feb 3rd.

Time to reach in the bag.

I’m not entirely sure converting Vinson and Shep to WR is Plan C, though. Where else is Vinson gonna play? Or Shep, for that matter? I think he could take some snaps as a running QB, but his future is probably as a receiver.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 20, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

There was talk about Vinson playing DB

And I agree Shep is never likely to become an SEC quarterback, but I was hoping to see him as more of the Hybrid RB/WR role like Harvin than as a pure slot receiver.

by The Bengal on Jan 20, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Harvin/Shep

Yeah, I see him in the same role. But I think of Harvin as a receiver.

I do think Wright is now an absolute must-have. Well, not exactly. We all agree a WR is a must get and I think Wright is the easiest to get. If we get Ambles and not Wright… I’m still happy.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 20, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I thought Vinson was signed as a projected Safety.

Shep seems to have all the tools to be an elite QB except hight and arm strength. But the dude is obviously a great leader, probably has a great work ethic, and seems to be pretty intelligent. I wish he had a stronger arm, because man that dude would be something special at QB.

Shep at WR full-time may make us all sound silly for even having this WR discussion.

by LSU Jonno on Jan 20, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think you need arm strength to be

a good college qb. I think Shep’s problem might be more accuracy.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
St. Louis vegetarian blog

by Gregatron on Jan 20, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

If you had bet me

at the beginning of the season that Russell Shepard would have had 50 touches in 11 games and not throw a single pass you would have owned my car, my house and my next 5 years’ salary. And in spite of that, he still averaged 6.2 yards/carry in an offense that averaged 3.7 ypr.

I don’t know why he hasn’t worked out as a passer (his high school film had some impressive passes), but I hope that’s one thing they work on in the spring. Having a passing threat in the wildcat or on a WR lateral would be nasty.

by The Bengal on Jan 20, 2010 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

i haven't at all been impressed w/ his passing ability

I think people assumes he can throw the ball b/c he was a qb. However, I think his passing is very poor compared to most qbs. It certainly explains why the wouldn’t let him throw it.

by Zandor435 on Jan 20, 2010 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

In fairness...

… we don’t know his passing ability. Not really. HE’S NEVER ATTEMPTED A PASS at this level. I agree with Bengal, we absolutely need the added dimension of the pass in the wildcat.

Shep could be a lethal weapon. He can primarily be a runner under a center, but if he just had the threat of throwing, it would help immensely. He doesn’t need to be JaMarcus Russell, just slightly better than Melvin Hill.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 20, 2010 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I didn't think he was THAT bad in the spring game

Raw, yeah, but not “never attempt a pass again” raw…

by Billy Gomila on Jan 20, 2010 4:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Think it was like 7/12 with a pick

Again, not great, but not terrible either.

The pick was a case of him staring down a wideout and Peterson jumping the route. Mistake, but not exactly an uncommon one for young QB’s.

by Billy Gomila on Jan 20, 2010 4:28 PM CST up reply actions  

what about the qb challenge

I remember him being part of a qb challenge w/ Matt Barkley and some others. He did not do well at all in the passing drills.

by Zandor435 on Jan 21, 2010 8:17 AM CST up reply actions  

it is i agree

however i am skeptical about his abilities as a passer from the little I have seen thus far.

by Zandor435 on Jan 21, 2010 9:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Again

Not saying he absolutely SHOULD have gotten to throw, just that we don’t really know and based on what I’ve seen, he could have been a lot worse.

by Billy Gomila on Jan 21, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Well if by arm strength you mean...

Hey look Ken Dorsey and Matt Mauk won championships and they didn’t have cannons, then yes I agree.

But I don’t think Shep possess even that kind of arm strength. I’ll admit the only passes I’ve seen him throw were in the Army AA game his senior year of highschool so maybe he’s improved.

by LSU Jonno on Jan 20, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I had to go back and look at his senior film

As Poseur said, he’s no Jamarcus Russell, but he can throw it at least 40 yards, relatively flatfooted. The passing highlights are between 2:20 and 5:00 in the video.

by The Bengal on Jan 20, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll just take you guys' word for it.

Maybe the problem isn’t his arm strength.

by LSU Jonno on Jan 21, 2010 8:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Jonno --

Actually, I agree with your skepticism. Until he throws a pass in anger against live competition, I reserve all judgment on his passing ability.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 21, 2010 8:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Houston Bates...

… we should also mention him as an ATH who might find the field at WR instead of Vinson. I’m just really intrigued by Vinson, who just seems like a playmaker.

Not trying to restart the argument, though I do like the discussion, I’m just saying… there are some options. But I really, really, REALLY want to get Wright.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 20, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

And Tharold Simon

is another WR possibility IF he makes grades.

Bates, really? I thought he was either a TE or a linebacker projection?

by The Bengal on Jan 20, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

You're right...

… I meant Simon. Bates is likely a LB. My bad. Getting my ATH recruits confused.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 20, 2010 4:50 PM CST up reply actions  

That's OK

I got Vinson and Simon confused earlier in this thread.

by The Bengal on Jan 20, 2010 4:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Sheps a Slot Receiver

He will be a slot receiver, but Billy G believes in his receivers being the complete package and we’ve seen how he uses them as running backs sometimes. I think RS and Jarvis Landry will play that Percy Harvin type of role. What concerns me is having a big physical receiver to follow Reuben Randle. We’ve always had big guys. Alonzo Lewis and James Wright seem to be the likely candidates on the outside in the future. Sylve is a burner. Maybe Nigel King if we sign 4 WR next year. I’m comfortable at this position., but it would’ve been nice to have JH.

Boone, Wright, Fobbs. Fobbs may switch to CB when we get the ‘11 class in. That’s just a prediction.

by Big McLargeHuge on Jan 20, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

i thought shep was going to be a rb

He may well yet develop into a solid WR, but he didn’t seem to have very good hands this year.

by Zandor435 on Jan 20, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

No

He caught the ball fine…He just couldn’t hang on to it.

by LSU Jonno on Jan 20, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Given the inaction on the offensive assistants

I’m more in the Jonno camp than the Poseur/Billy camp at the moment. I don’t think that losing a couple of out of state commits (even highly rated ones like Davis and Hunter) is a reason to panic. The distance issue is so hard to overcome as these kids get closer to signing day. That’s not a reason to drop them from your plans, as Patrick Peterson and Sam Montgomery worked out nicely for us (in terms of gets; I know Montgomery redshirted this past year). As long as you have a good plan B for those out of state guys, it’s worth a shot going after them.

The more worrisome problem we seem to have right now is that even the in-state WRs don’t seem that excited about playing for us. Reed and Fobbs are both committed elsewhere, firmly it seems right now. Wright seems more interested, but I just read he’s not going to decide until NSD. There’s Ambles and Boone, but at this point you’re back to rolling the dice with highly recruited out of state prospects. It’s possible we could be shut out of WRs if Wright decides to go out of state and we don’t turn Reed or Fobbs. I guess Plan C is hope Simon makes grades or make some internal roster moves (Shepard to full-time WR, Calhoun to WR, bring Peterson back to WR, etc.

I’m hopeful Gonzales and Wilson can work some magic, but I have to confess I am a little worried at this point.

by The Bengal on Jan 20, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Difference between worried and pannicked.

If Poseur and I have a “camp” (oooh! lets call it Camp AnaWanna), it’s definitely worried.

We just don’t choose to spend our time freaking out about this. There’s no point.

by Billy Gomila on Jan 20, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think anyone is freaking out.

When I say “panic” I’m not litterally running in circles screaming. We can parse words all we want, but if you aren’t “worried” then you probably don’t have a pulse. I really don’t think there are different camps on this one. I just won’t use the word “panic” on this site ever again, we all seem to be “worried”.

Also, whether or not DJ McCarthy was sleezy or cheating or a bad WR coach is probably all up for debate. But one thing he was, was a damn good recruiter. So, something that nobody is pointing out is that some of this WR defection could be because we lost our WR coach. If we suffer in the near term for getting rid of a possible walking sanction so be it, we’ll probably be better off for it. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t worry, it’s just rationale for the situation.

by LSU Jonno on Jan 20, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

And as I've said

I don’t think anybody here, isn’t worried.

We just understand the situation. Harping on things constantly, as some are want to do (to turn a phrase), ultimately doesn’t do any good.

by Billy Gomila on Jan 20, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think any of us are positive

We just accept the situation for what it is.

What good does running down LSU do right now? The current regime is at least coaching the team in 2010. Whether they continue after that will come down to wins and losses during the season.

by Billy Gomila on Jan 20, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

being negative doesn't necessarily mean "running down the program"

I agree that being negative in a “tiger droppings” way is, if anything, harmful. But I can’t remember anyone on this blog ever coming close to that level of negativity. If anything, most on this board have bent over backwards to defend the program and Miles.

I think we all generally like Miles, so I think it is totally understandable for the defense of him and the coaching staff.

by Zandor435 on Jan 20, 2010 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Defending Miles

I think you have it wrong. It’s not that most on this board bend over backwards to defend Miles, it’s that most LSU fans direct their criticism incorrectly. If anything, we’re better at criticising him because we’re not trying too hard to interpret every event as a reason Miles is a bad coach. Their are a huge number of criticisms about him that the vast majority of the fanbase seems to not completely understand. ATVS is one of the few places left that do. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go cry in my pillow because I just found out Archie McDaniel is decommiting and going to Texas A&M.

by Big McLargeHuge on Jan 20, 2010 2:31 PM CST up reply actions  

wait

I think I misread the purpose of your post . Doesn’t seem to be intended to criticise ATVS for being positive. My bad.

by Big McLargeHuge on Jan 20, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Worrying about perception

is stupid. Tigerdroppings is littered with people that need to validate themselves with the football program. Some people live a second life as an Orc on World of Warcraft because their actual life is pretty pathetic, and other people need the football program to be good – no- perfect so they can cover up their deep personal flaws. For them, a loss makes them feel weak and vulnerable. To lean on football success is to lean on the wind.

There will always be a will and a desire for athletic success, but perfection is unattainable. Your expectations for the football program should never be higher than your expectations for yourself. Before pointing out the splinter in LSU’s eye, address the two-by-four in your own.

With that being said, we better improve next year.

Jrlz rhymes with Charles.

by Jrlz on Jan 20, 2010 1:58 PM CST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

"but perfection is unattainable."

actually it is only unattainable to keep consistent perfection………..ROLLTIDE

by The Voice of Reason on Jan 21, 2010 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Before pointing out the splinter in LSU’s eye, address the two-by-four in your own.

Nice biblical backhand mr. Jrlz!

an ‘Amen’ from the congregation!

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 20, 2010 2:16 PM CST reply actions  

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