Really ESPN?

by HarveyBirdmanAAL on Jan 25, 2010 1:04 AM CST Comment 38 comments

I saw in an earlier fan post that ESPN had dissed the 07 and 03 LSU teams from whatever ridiculous "poll" or fictional "playoff" it was conducting at the time. Chris Low, however, has taken it to another level with this, in his list of things that will happen in the upcoming decade:

5. Coaching change at LSU: Either Les Miles is going to get out while he can, or he’s going to be forced out sometime in the next two or three years. Miles’ first three seasons on the Bayou set the bar so high that he won’t be able to get away with too many more four- and five-loss seasons. The 2010 season is critical for him if he’s going to get back into good graces with the LSU faithful. He lost a lot of support this season, especially with how poorly the offense performed.

Is this true? If so, I guess he and Larry Coker will have something to discuss at the unemployed coaches convention. It just seems unlikely to me that 2010 will be Miles' last.

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I can't answer this

without expressing anger toward my LSU ‘faithful’ brethren so I’ll just say that Chris Lowe is not the only idiot that thinks in such away.

Don’t worry though, Les and the Tigers are going to surprise a lot of people in 2010 and he will be fine.

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 25, 2010 7:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Why is Lowe so far off base?

After two or three more years Miles will have been the coach at LSU for 7 to 8 years. How many SEC coaches last that long these days?

by LSU Jonno on Jan 25, 2010 8:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I hear you Jonno

I still think we’ll be seeing Miles at LSU in 2011. I don’t see 2010 being his last year. I’ve been wrong before though.

by HarveyBirdmanAAL on Jan 25, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Chris Lowe..

Is like Lane Kiffin, in the sense that he has a great job but for the life of you you can’t figure out how he got/keeps said job. He regularly shows favoritism in his articles, and LSU is one of his favorite whipping boys.

Now as far as that ranking of the “Teams of the Decade” thing, they placed ‘04 USC in front of ’01 UM… Credibility eroded as far as I’m concerned.

What's up Ryan? ARGHHHHHH!!! oops. ~ Patrick Chewing

by Mikeno on Jan 25, 2010 12:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Lowe is right..

Our offense was atrocious this year, after our defense had been atrocious last year. There are signs that the program is declining and we would be foolish to ignore them. Les Miles deserves a chance to right the ship, but if next year is like this year, I would rather go ahead and make a change rather than wait for things to get worse.

Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.

And The Valley Shook

by Richard Pittman on Jan 25, 2010 12:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Negatiger.

Welcome back, RP! We’ve missed you around here.

Recruiting updates coming soon?

by The Bengal on Jan 25, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's also wrong...

… there is no chance in hell LSU fires Miles and then hires a co-ordinator not named Muschamp as the HC. Really, the item was just another way for Lowe to say how great Bama is. Which is a big ball of whatever.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 25, 2010 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Even as a Bama fan

I’ve noticed some real slant from him. I guess we’re the team of the minute.

by HarveyBirdmanAAL on Jan 25, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It rendered his predictions worhtless

It was like Lowe saying “Alabama will win every title from now until Saban suffers, dies, and is buried. On the third day, he will rise again in fulfillment of the Scriptures.” I mean, Bama is a worthy champ and they get all of the How Awesome They Are columns, but can we hold off on crowning them some unbeatable dynasty?

I didn’t read it as an anti-LSU item, but as a way to say that Bama is so awesome that if by some chance Bama doesn’t win a MNC, it will be one of their assistants who win. Who obviously will be coaching at LSU or Georgia.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 25, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

See this is the conversation that we need to have on this site.

I think it is obvious that today we aren’t where we were in 2006 as a program. We can debate the magnitude of that delta all day, but as long as we can all agree that there is a delta, we can move on.

What I want to know from this community is, given that we all support Miles and genuinely want him to succeed, how bad does it have to get before we should entertain the thought of a change.

by LSU Jonno on Jan 27, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We don't all agree that the PROGRAM has declined

I (and many others) believe whole heartedly that 2010/2011 will be very, very good so I for one am sick of the constant beat down of the program.

I’m glad you say that it is a ‘given’ that we all support Miles but I have not seen the evidence of that.

You may genuinely want him to succeed, as I would hope any true Tiger fan would but to many of the negative crowd it seems to me that they want to be right more than they want to succeed.

And I think the talk of ‘change’ is horrifing. We need to let the man close out this recruiting class and get ready for next year. BUILD up the program instead of tearing it down and if we are wrong and we decline then maybe there is something to talk about until then it is just not helpful!

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 27, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that

if we consistently start turning in only 8 or 9 win seasons, we should make a change. But when I say that, I mean consistently, meaning in 2010 AND 2011. That would definitely turn it into a trend, rather than “a couple of disappointing seasons easily explained by several reasons.”

As far as program capability, I don’t think we are really any different from 2006. That being said, I don’t think anybody’s scared of us like they used to be. I can’t remember who said it this past off season, I think it might’ve been Billy, but we used to absolutely STOMP teams-good, solid bowl teams-into the ground, and then we’d have our tough games against the Auburn’s and the Florida’s. Now we still play those teams tough, but it’s as if we’re playing down to the level of our competition. You can blame that on any number of things-coaching, not the same kind of leadership (Landry, Dorsey, Hester, Bowe, etc.), talent decline, a better conference, or any number of things. I’m not saying I know which one of these is the correct reason, but it’s definitely a problem.

by Ianoka on Jan 27, 2010 4:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ianoka

I agree with you >90% of the time and for the most I agree now. I also find you to be very reasonable so don’t think I picking a fight but I want to talk about this >>>if we consistently start turning in only 8 or 9 win seasons, we should make a change<<<

While I am in no way satisfied with third place or four and five loss seasons I wonder how many programs would fire a coach for 8.5 wins per year over a four or five year stretch? (I can think of about five and it only worked out well for one of them)

Moreover, we are at 10.2 wins over 5 years, it is just unfathomable to be that we’d be discussing this guy’s demise.

Again,not picking you out because I know you have not really been in that camp, I’m just trying to make a point in general…

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 27, 2010 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not unhappy with the program right now

Because as Poseur said below, we’re on the upswing (at least as far as the last 2 years). But if we flatline at 2nd or 3rd place in the West…well it just shouldn’t happen. I can excuse a couple of bad years, a couple of short rebuilding periods, but if we win only 8 or 9 the next two years, it will be four years in a row. This may make me sound more like the negative group, but there’s truth in this comment: we have too much talent to be a mediocre team. If you are mediocre for 4 years in a row, I would say it’s time to make a change. 4 years is plenty of time to rebuild, groom a quarterback, recruit new talent, get better coaches, and fix any problems that are creeping in. If these things don’t happen, the coach has got to go. All that being said, I believe that Miles WILL turn it around, but if he doesn’t…

by Ianoka on Jan 27, 2010 5:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you

It just seems to me that we (as a fan base – not we as in you and me) have been having this debate since the UT loss in 2005 and it is just awful now.

Also, you’ll have to forgive me, I’ve been over at tigerdroppings for the last couple of days. Some of those guys are just deranged and honestly we could go 14-0 next year, win the title and they’ll say it was because of billy gonzales only and Miles and Crowton should still be fired or killed.

Yesterday, Lache Seastruck was unwanted (btw, his Aunt was on the board-she’s been a poster for years-and she said she had to quit because of all the negativity about her nephew-I’msure that helped) and not needed and since Miles obviously doesn’t recruit in-state enough there was no need to offer him in the first place.

Now that he chose Oregon it is proof that Miles is stupid and players hate LSU.

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 27, 2010 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Also, several things you could take for granted at LSU that may no longer be true

-The aforementioned ability to kill any team that wasn’t great. And not just the ability, but we’d actually do it.

-That we run the WR screen better than anyone. Back in the days of Doucet, Bowe, and Davis, the WR screen was our bread and butter. The WR would run what looked like a little quick out, but when he turned for the ball he’d turn all the way around back towards the middle, and catch the ball behind a wall of blockers that had just been set up. We can’t do that anymore, for whatever reason.

-Dominant offensive line. Not much more of an explanation needed.

-Dominant defensive line. Hopefully with this and the O-line problem, they are only temporary setbacks, and not trends.

-LSU always wins in Death Valley. The mere fact that we were playing at home used to be enough to assure a win. That hasn’t happened as much as it should lately, and this is as much on the fans as anyone. What the heck is Tiger Stadium doing half empty in the 4th quarter of the Arkansas game?

-Late season contention for the SEC. The last couple of years we’ve been eliminated by the first week in November I believe. Playing 3 “meaningless” games can’t help the morale of anyone-coaches, players, and especially fans.

by Ianoka on Jan 27, 2010 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good analysis

I think this year was a “righting of the ship” after a disaster in 2008. We improved from 3-5 to 5-3. Now, I think Miles has to get us back to previous levels. 2010 is very likely a referendum on his job. I think he certainly has earned that chance and you can read 2009 either as improvement or continued decline.

But here’s an uncomfortable thought: try and think of a coach who won a title, slipped back to the middle of the pack like LSU has, and then gotten BACK to the title-winning level. Almost every title winning coach of the past 10 years is a guy in his first 5 years or so at that program. You have to go back to the ’90s to find a guy who had gone through a significant rough patch at his school (Osbourne at Nebraska, maybe Fulmer at Tennessee but not really).

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 27, 2010 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Urban Myer

Lost four games in between NC years (I know that’s not two in a row) and will likely lose three or four this year, maybe the following year, not sure what they’ll look like then but losing your entire two deep defense and babyJ at the same time can’t be good…

JoePa, won a couple back in the day, good not great for years, then sucked, now back to semi-elite status, probably the most loved coach (by his fans and others) in the country…..

Spurrier and Bowden lived off of their one NC for years, then sucked, not coming back……

Bob Stoops, Won it all, failed several times, sucked this year, not on the hot seat, rebound?

OSU will be preseason #2 behind Bama or #1 depending on who you ask….

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 27, 2010 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's definitely an uncomfortable thought

But we have 100% plausible reasons (Perrilloux, Malleveto, just the plain rebuilding after all the 07 seniors left) for the slip, and to think that it was only a down season and then, as you said, “righting the ship”. But if this continues to happen, even if you have “plausible” reasons every year, something is clearly wrong.

by Ianoka on Jan 27, 2010 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This has been a good string.

One more comment…I’ll give you the Perrilloux explanation for the decline for the last two years, but in 2010, we’d be sans RP anyway, so let’s leave that argument tucked away now. JJ will be a junior next year which is what RP was when he was expected to perform.

Also, Miles doesn’t get a pass on Malleveto. Miles promoted them. A coach can not succeed without competant assisstants, which means a coach cannot succeed if he doesn’t hire the right guys. Miles doesn’t get a pass if he makes bad hires, it’s part of his job. And Malleveto wasn’t that bad guys…They were sure as hell a lot better compared to our offense this year.

by LSU Jonno on Jan 28, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree and disagree

Completely agree on RP. No one is allowed to use him as an excuse from this point forward. Done. Let’s sign the blood oath on that.

I think Miles gets a “partial” pass on the Malleveto. He promoted from within and I give you a little bit wider of a lane on that kind of decision. Promoting from within is a good thing if it works. It didn’t, and Miles immediately fixed it. I think getting bit by the Peter Principle is a forgiveable sin, considering that he solved the problem.

But tying his fate to Crowton? He will absolutely be judged on that. No excuses. I gave him the Crowton Excuse this season, but not now. He kept his OC, so any offensive failures in 2010 are on Miles as well.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jan 28, 2010 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll sign the blood oath

RP would have graduated and hopefully JJ (and/or JL) would have gained enough experience to be ready to take the reigns next year.

Truthfully, I think this year (and last) was better experience for JJ and the next two years could be something very special.

It may just make the last two years worth it.

Crowton is put up or shut up for me this year but I have a feeling we’ll have the ‘most improved’ offense in the country.

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 28, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

HHHMMM..

I have a feeling we’ll have the ‘most improved’ offense in the country.

Going out on a limb there you maverick you. WATCH OUT!

If Crowton coaches the 80th ranked offense I would find it hard believe anyone else ‘IMPROVING’ by that type of margin. His performance last season has given him serious room for ‘IMPROVEMENT’.

40th – 50th ranked offense or bust. I think that’s more than fair, or am I asking/expecting too much of Crowton?

What's up Ryan? ARGHHHHHH!!! oops. ~ Patrick Chewing

by Mikeno on Jan 29, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My friend Mike

I’m talking top 20 or better.

Have a great day!

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 29, 2010 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I..

certainly hope so. That would be great.

20th ranked sounds like an SEC Championship lock.

What's up Ryan? ARGHHHHHH!!! oops. ~ Patrick Chewing

by Mikeno on Jan 29, 2010 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sound right to me

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 30, 2010 11:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sounds

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 30, 2010 11:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As far as the coaching situation

Crowton obviously gets this year. If he doesn’t perform, he has to be out. If he doesn’t perform, I think Miles still gets at least another year, but it definitely puts him on the hot seat. The legitimate hot seat, as in SI.com and ESPN are mentioning him. And then of course, the part that nobody’s thinking about: if we DO improve this year, if we DO get an offense comparable to 07, what then? Obviously Crowton bought himself another year, but are we going to have to keep dealing with 2 years of incompetence for 1 or 2 years of great offense? Or is this NOT a pattern, and we’ll be fine from here on out? Who knows.

by Ianoka on Jan 28, 2010 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We are in agreement

Crowton is on the hot seat in 2010.

Short of a catoshtropic implosion Miles gets at least 2011.

Your second question; if we have to take two 8.5 win seasons for every championship, who wouldn’t make that deal? I’m in!!

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 28, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Crowton improves the offense with JJ as an upperclassmen...

Then it basically means that Crowton is not a compatible solution to the offense with a young QB. So the coaching staff will have to do a MUCH better job with their QB recruiting to make damn sure that we always have a RS Soph or junior ready to take the reigns at a moments notice. We can rely on first and second year players to run Crowton’s offense.

I had a man crush on Crowton in 2007 and the first half of 2008. The man isn’t stupid, he just has a hard time tailoring his complicated machine to young players. The flip side to that is, if we have an experienced QB we are pretty much unstoppable. Like everything else in football, it is a trade off. Personally, if our offense goes from say 112th to say 30th this year, I’m fine with Crowton staying.

by LSU Jonno on Jan 29, 2010 7:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We can rely on first and second year players to run Crowton’s offense.

This should say “can’t”

by LSU Jonno on Jan 29, 2010 7:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good Point

And IF we do improve this year, and IF Crowton stays, I don’t think we’ll be put into that situation again where we have to play a first or second year player.

by Ianoka on Jan 30, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope he does and I hope we don't

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 30, 2010 11:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Miles doesn't win the west in the next two years

And keeps making the same kind of game management errors we’ve seen I think it’s safe to say we will be looking for a new coach.

"Tiger Stadium is by far the worst place to play for a visiting team. It's like being inside a drum." - Paul "Bear" Bryant

by Chinese Bandit on Jan 25, 2010 1:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

the difference is les miles would get another job. larry coker has not.

i'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. i was building a house, i don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. bang. "unforgiven"

by wolfmanshowlforever on Jan 27, 2010 8:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

^^^He would be an upgrade for 95% of the country^^^

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jan 27, 2010 9:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not saying I want him gone

He’s a good coach, he’s loyal, the players love him, and for the most part he’s been very successful. However, the expectations at LSU have become so high that repeated 8-9 win seasons and 2-3 place in the west are simply unacceptable. That being said, I firmly believe next year could either be his saving grace or the beginning of his downfall. Win the west and all is forgiven, for now. Don’t, and he’s sitting squarely on the hotseat. Such is the fickle world that is college football. Hopefully the coaching hires will work out and Crowton will get his act together in time to put out what should be one hell of a football team next year.

"Tiger Stadium is by far the worst place to play for a visiting team. It's like being inside a drum." - Paul "Bear" Bryant

by Chinese Bandit on Jan 27, 2010 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs