LSU - Arkansas: A Viewer's Guide to the Sunday Replay
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2010 11:00 AM CST
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It's really hard to complain about a 10-2 regular season, but man, that's a rough way to end it. There are a couple of easy targets of blame for this one, but the reality is this goes on the whole team.
Notes:
- What is it about LSU-Arkansas that causes these crazy things to happen? A punt catches the back of an LSU player's ankle for an easy Arkansas recovery, but the Tigers fail to fall on a Joe Adams muff. Never mind the fumble/interception/punt 80-yard touchdown sequence.
- In terms of Arkansas' plan of attack, it was pretty much what I expected - outside zone runs or draw plays with Knile Davis that took advantage of the LSU pursuit, and downfield passing from Ryan Mallett designed to attack the Tiger safeties and linebackers.
- Karnell Hatcher...wow...it's rare that you make mistakes that directly cost 14 points, but that's pretty much what he did, and that's kind of part of the gig with a safety. The first big play to Cobi Hamilton, that's a throw not many quarterbacks can make that quickly, but you have to know that Mallett can and you have to rotate over there. On the second one, there's no excuse to play the ball on a last-ditch throw at halftime unless you have a clear path to knock it down (and he didn't). You get the guy on the ground, half over. You knock your own guy down, and suddenly there isn't a lot of help to get the guy down. Of course, there was also no reason for the Tigers to be in a 3-deep zone instead of a pure prevent. Arkansas wouldn't have had time for more than one play.
- Hatcher's going to get piled on, but at the same time, LSU got the ball inside the Arkansas 10 with a chance to tie the game and couldn't punch it in.
- Really rough game for the offensive tackles, especially Chris Faulk, who got worked over by Arkansas' Damario Ambrose (coincidentally, the only senior starter on the Razorback d-line). Arkansas even managed to get pressure with three rushers at times, which was just plain sad. In general the offensive line wasn't great - including the normally solid Josh Dworacyzk. Stevan Ridley's first TD required the effort it did because Josh D. failed to get his guy on the ground.
- LSU had some pretty good success with the spread/zone read running game, and even the option in the first half, but tried to get back to I-formation running in the second for some reason. Arkansas has an under-sized front, but the second they saw a two-back set they packed the box and swarmed the line of scrimmage. Spreading things out was the way to go. And I think more option game would have continued to be successful -- particularly with Michael Ford. There's really no reason for Jefferson to throw 27 passes. There was also no reason for Richard Murphy to be carrying the ball in the fourth quarter.
- Horribly managed game by head referee Steve Shaw's crew. Really bad clock management at times - including on Knile Davis' injury in the final two minutes. Bobby Petrino was rightly angry about it. The holding call on P.J. Lonergan was atrocious in particular - calling holding on a center on an outside run (unless that center is pulling) is about as ticky tack as calling pass interference on a hail-mary. Nevermind the facemask on Michael Ford on the play. Shaw generally has a good rep with fans, but this wasn't his first rough game. I'd say Matt Austin has passed him up in the pecking order.
- Speaking of Lonergan...oof. He's had some really good games this season, but today might have been worse than his game against Auburn. But instead of getting pushed around by the Arkansas front, he let them get in his head and badly botched two snaps. The 6-7 Mallett couldn't have caught that second bad snap.
- Finally, the only way I can explain Craig Bolerjack and Steve Buerlein's employment is as a foil for Verne and Gary. From referring to Josh Jasper as a Groza finalist (he's not), to calling for both teams to constantly go for punt blocks in spite of having the two top punt-returners in the SEC to referring to the game as an upset multiple times (Arkansas was a 3.5 point favorite), the mute button wasn't good enough to express my discuss. Honestly, I wanted to skip duct tape even and just go straight to chloroform. Is it really that hard for CBS to get Gus Johnson on SEC football games? I would have even preferred the Mark Jones/Bob Davie combo. I may have even preferred Craig James (/slaps self).
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I gotta say
This was a great season! Not many people predicted a 10-2 season. I’m proud to be a tiger fan and really happy the way the season turned out.
by cbkao on Nov 28, 2010 12:06 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Can't agree with that.
Our record was good but we can’t ignore some serious issues. One, our offense is generally ineffective for the 3rd year. Most infuriating is that Crow says JJ really improved b/c Lee’s role mid season made him try harder in practice and film study. Now he tries!!! WTF! Goes to show his post game Aaron Brooks act is real. He thinks he is good so does not give 100% until he is benched. We don’t need that.
Two, our team is often ill prepared and thus plays by emotion – or lack thereof. We need to get to the point we crush weak teams and bring that confidence into the big games. You should not see the long pass in the biggest game.
I am very happy to be 10-2 as think this team played at a level below that. Thankfully Fla, UNC, and WV were aalso under par this year (not that we need to apologize for those wins) But I was hoping we would stop the slide from elite. I feel we slowed it, but did not trend upwards. A change at OC would help if Miles is not the driving personality on offense (as has been mentioned). But we need a better O line as well. Feel really good about the wave of young players but they must be coached to perform at an elite level – just ask Lee, R Shep, Tolliver, Randle, etc.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 28, 2010 12:48 PM CST reply actions
Disagree
about not trending upwards.
I agree with you, it kinda feels like we’re “fortunate” to be 10-2…..in the sense that I don’t think this team was as good as some of our other recent 1 or 2-loss teams (03, 05, 06, 07). For starters, all those defenses were better this this year’s. This year we were awesomely athletic, and it covered up a lot of bad fundamentals. The pass rush is still nowhere near as fierce and consistent as it once was.
But this defense was definitely better than last year’s, which featured no pass rush and slightly worse back 7 play. This defense was also extremely young outside of Nevis, Shep, and Zod. Those guys will be hard to replace. But we were younger and STILL got better. That’s a move in the right direction, as far as I’m concerned.
Think about this: remember the wreck that Florida’s defense was in 2007? Those were young guys replacing a 2006 championship defense. And they looked young…..and inept, most of the year. And remember the ass-kickers they turned into in 2008 and 2009? Same guys. Our young guys in the same situation just looked a whole lot more competent than 2007’s Florida guys did in their first year.
Agreed. I meant the O is trending level. The D has good potential.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 28, 2010 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
True
Our offense does need improvement but that will come with a new oc I imagine. I was just trying be positive since it was a 10-2 season in the power division of the nations power conference.
by cbkao on Nov 28, 2010 5:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No doubt. I think we do fine with an upgrade at QB and OC. Status quo is what I fear here.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 28, 2010 6:29 PM CST up reply actions
Zimm, absolutely nobody mentioned status quo
Just because you can say you had a good year doesn’t mean there’s nothing to work on.
It never means that, I don’t care if you went undefeated.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2010 8:23 PM CST up reply actions
I mentioned status quo
in regard to the offense. IMO, the offense has been about the same for 3 yrs. What I said was that I fear the status quo – i.e., of keeping the OC and QB situation unchanged. The D has improved greatly and I expect more next year.
But without a new OC I think we continue to stay at the same level.
I don’t think anything I said is highly disputed.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 29, 2010 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
And I don't think anybody would argue
Against making an OC change (and we all know they’re trying to bring in Zach Mettenberger at quarterback).
But that doesn’t mean we can’t say LSU had a good season.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 29, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
I never said or implied it was not a good season.
Hell, I cut my teeth attending Curly Hallman games…10-2 is F’n awesome. I’m stoked and want to maintain that level. hence, my statement that a QB who does not prepare hard enough until benched or a team that plays down to it’s competition will not do. I’ll take 10-2 every year, but this level of play won’t generate 10 wins in most years.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 29, 2010 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
My head pounds over statements like this...
“but this level of play won’t generate 10 wins in most years.” Really? Why not? This level of play generated 10 wins this year…a year in which we faced some of the toughest competition week-in and week-out that we will ever face. This level of play gave us a chance to win every game (with a very very young football team).
My point is NOT that our team is perfect (everyone agrees that the O needs to improve), but saying that this team would not win 10 in most years is a cheap way to discount their accomplishments. Its almost like saying we are lucky to have won 10 games, which I don’t believe in the least. I personally think that, but for some pretty bad luck (i.e., unexpectedly bad play at key moments against Arkansas) we would be sitting on 11 wins right now. Hell, we might have been 12-0 if not for the bad luck (i.e., bad play) of RR tipping the ball to Auburn’s secondary on the first drive of that game.
by Displaced Tiger on Dec 1, 2010 7:32 AM CST up reply actions
Nope, play like this will give you 2008, 2009, 2010, rinse and repeat.
no need to repeat why I think this.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Dec 1, 2010 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
I can't agree with this at all
I feel we slowed it, but did not trend upwards.
BS. Absolute BS. LSU’s SEC record, whcih has been the primary thing used to bludgeon Miles, over the past three years:
3-5
5-3
6-2
If that’s not trending upwards, I don’t know what is. I’ll agree that the team is not perfect and the offense needs work, but to argue that a team that has spent most of the year in the top ten or just outside of it, has only two losses – both of which on the road to top ten teams by a touchdown, and plays in a DIVISION with 5 ranked teams… we;;, we must have completely different definitions of trending upwards to the elite.
I’m unhappy with Crowton and want him gone, but the “trending downwards” crowd was wrong before this season started and they are even more wrong now.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
by Poseur on Nov 29, 2010 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Megadittos on Crowton
I’m going to start working on a coaching hiring guide, because its becoming very very clear people don’t understand how that process works.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 29, 2010 9:04 AM CST up reply actions
And more so
On trending upward. Whether people want to believe it or not, this year was a step back in the right direction. It wasn’t as much of a step as a lot of people wanted, but it was still a step.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 29, 2010 9:10 AM CST up reply actions
there is always more to the story than those stats.
I’m not in the “trending downwards clan”, I’m in the “don’t get comfortable just because we got 10 wins Clan.” Hell yes, I enjoy our improved SEC record. But that record is not a very deep analysis of the team’s quality. We got a break this year in that FL and Ole Miss sucked – I know rivalry games are different but come on, they were not at a high level this year. Neither was Tenn, and neither was UNC when we played. That’s the luck of the draw and we don’t need to apologize for those wins, but just as I say for TCU, et al., I think the quality of our opponents and the difficulty beating them speaks to our program’s status. So 10-2 is not dramatically better than 9-3.
More pointedly, the product on the field must improve if we want to get 10 wins next year.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 29, 2010 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
So you're saying
That we don’t need to apologize for 10 wins, but at the same time you’re discounting some them. So what is it?
This is a bottom line business. And 10 wins is the bottom line. That doesn’t mean things don’t have to change — we’ve all (in terms of me, Paul and Poseur) acknowledge that. But was this a step forward from the last 2 years? Yes. But its a step on a journey that never really ends.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 29, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
Ok.
I guess to me all wins are not created equal. If we played the same next year we likely go 8-4 or 9-3. My original post was about regaining elite status. No national pundit was calling us elite – they were asking how the hell we undefeated with zero offense. That aint elite. So we are not “trending” up as dramatically as the record would indicate without looking further.
I don’t think we are saying much different, I just triggered your Naysayer button. Not my intention, as I expect changes to be made to get the trend up significantly next year.
I fear the “delusional optimism” (not yours, Miles’) over 10 wins will end up with a status quo mindset in the Admin Building. None of us wants that. I was never in the fire Miles crowd or we suck crowd etc. At the same time, I’m not comfortable with our current situation.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 29, 2010 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
No, we clearly are on different wave lengths
First off, none of us what pundits say. They’ve never given Miles credit in the past and I will not be beholden to their judgment as to the status of “elite,” because they’ve shown they won’t give it at 10, 11 or 12 wins. Perception is not reality. What happens on the field is. And this team won 10 games, more than the year before and the year before that. And beat 8 bowl-eligible teams in doing so.
Basically, we’re saying “Yay for 10 wins. Now go fix the offense.” If Miles chooses not to make any changes on offense, you won’t see any of us happy about it. Not only have we been openly critical of Gary Crowton, we’ve been detailed and analytical in those criticisms. Trust me, if he’s kept around, none of us are “comfortable” with it.
But the “fix the offense” part isn’t going to stop us from saying the “yay” part.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 29, 2010 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
never said or suggested you should not say "yay", don't be so extreme
I can be happy and discuss needed changes at the same time – I see that bothers you. If you feel this team played at an elite level this year, enjoy that. If you think they are trending close to elite, enjoy that. I disagree. I think an elite team does not have close calls with Tenn, UNC, OM, etc. I think O play at this level next year will generate 2008 and 2009 results. I don’t find those to be elite years by any rational evaluation. You seem to agree..but refuse to agree because you don’t want to agree. Whatever floats your skirt?
You want to go in circles about your right to be happy with 10 wins as if I said “them team sucks, fuck’em”, but I think most of the posters here and articles from TP and Advoc seem to get/repeat my actual point.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 29, 2010 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
No
I can be happy and discuss needed changes at the same time – I see that bothers you.
I’ve never said that. At all. You’re the one casting this as some sort of bizarre “we’re satisfied with the status quo” situation and belittling this team’s accomplishments as “no longer elite.” If you think an “elite” team doesn’t have close calls, you need to study up on your college football. Alabama had close calls versus Tennessee, LSU and Auburn in 2008, among others. Florida in 08 lost to Ole Miss. By these standards, there are few, if any “elite” programs."
You seem to be missing the parts where we’re pretty steadily calling for Gary Crowton to move on.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 29, 2010 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
Not at all, that's your argument, but not what I said.
Elite is not one season – consistency is the primary element after winning. There was a reason Miles was on the “hot seat” to some degree and why I’d say UT is in danger of slipping from the edge if they don’t rebound next year.
Our team is not dramatically better than last year, but the season worked out better – that’s not blasphemy, or belittling their success, just reality. I can’t repeat in any other language that we should celebrate the wins and kick the crap out of Mich St in the Bowl. But you can’t sit here and agree that the O sucks and will continue to suck without a new OC and new QB year after year and say we have an elite program – not in my view of elite anyway.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 30, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Elite is not one season – consistency is the primary element after winning.
Four out of the last 6 seasons LSU has won 10 or more games. That’s pretty goddamned consistent. Florida can’t claim that many. Neither can Alabama. Texas went 5-7 this season. Oklahoma went 8-5 a year ago.
So congratulations, your definition of elite does not apply to a single program in the entire country. You have high standards.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 30, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
We ARE elite
I’m sorry, wins are wins at the end of the year. The only wins I discount are those against teams like McNeese. But LSU played one of the toughest schedules in the country, and I will absolutely put up our 10 wins against anyone’s. We don’t have to apologize for squat.
We went through this last year and it pissed me off then, and it pisses me off now. We didn’t “almost” go 8-4 any more than we “almost” went 12-0. After five years, you’d think people would stop seeing it as luck. LSU teams under Miles are certainly sloppy at times, but they make up for that in taking good, calculated risks and playing with high levels of intensity. If we played like this again, we’d still win 9 or 10 games. Just like last season.
We absolutely agree that Crowton is terrible. We also absolutely agree that this season’s sucesses will have no bearing on how next season plays out. You don’t carry over wins.
But we are elite. Any program that is complaining about a 10-win season is pretty much, by definition, an elite program. Mediocre programs just enjoy it because they know it won’t happen again soon in all likelihood.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I used the term Elite, so I get to define it for now - dem da rules!.
My Elite definition is not the layer just above Mediocre as you described the groups. My Elite is only about 10 teams that are expected put a solid product out every year. We have not been elite by my def since 2007. And “elite” does tie to a national perception – sorry. Those people might hate us, our coach, our mascot, but they respect wins if you do it enough. Miles got the train rolling but it will take more than “these” 10 wins to impress the public and put LSU back into the rarefied air of Elite teams.
I think we are 1 solid OC and 1solid QB away from a 2 year run that puts us in the elite status I’m talking about – i.e., where we are not picked to finish last in the West.
But again, I’m not saying don’t be happy. But I – just me – don’t think LSU’s win over Tenn or FL or OM means the same as the Alabama win, or the OSU win ‘07, etc. To me, no, all wins are not the same. By that logic, every 10 win team is Elite and I don’t agree with that at all. By the same token, UT is still an elite team in spite of sucking this year. Does anyone really think they will not be back to form next year? I think they will, b/c they are an elite program right now.
Anyway…
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 29, 2010 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
Ah... we now expand to THREE years!
I was waiting for this. For the last year, it’s been nothing but what’s happened the last two years (desgined to exclude 2007 but include 2008). Now, the goalposts have moved again!
If we use the two years standard that’s been the benchmark of the criticisms of Miles, LSU will finish ranked #16 last season and close to the top ten this year. If you work the averages, we’re probably in the top ten teams in the country over that span. three years? Probably not. Four years? I bet we’re back in business.
Unless one chooses a timeframe specifically designed to catch LSU’s worst year while excluding their national title, I’m confident that LSU’s average finishes in the polls puts us in the top ten in the nation.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
No. I'd say 5 years is more fair.
I’m not trying to move the goals -honestly. The trouble started at “trend” so I think it is fair to call a woeful offense for 3years a very bad trend. And I don’t think any team is truly elite if there O is terrible for 3yrs and all agree a new OC and Qb are essential.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 29, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions
Once again
Nobody’s saying a new OC is not essential.
You’re really reaching to justify this “no longer elite” statement when you’re referencing a 7-5 and 9-3 team.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 29, 2010 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously Billy and Poseur - stop feeding the troll
Zimmflamphlegm is ridiculous. But this debate is ridiculous too. The team is lots better than the last two years. The D is great, with the exception of a dissapointing number of big plays – which, lets be honest – represent a bunch of freshmen mistakes. And a Dline missing a rusher of the caliber of Sam. The O is slightly better than last year – which is is still related to Perillioux leaving and Crowton sucking. We need to get rid of Crowton and hire someone who can 1) coach QBs and 2) run a rational offense – either with JJ and Lee or Mett or some other transfer.
I agree with everything you said except
the Perriloux argument. This year’s offense had nothing to do with Perriloux leaving. In fact, I can argue that it would be worse this year if Perriloux had stayed for two years. Last year would have been his senior year, and we would have been starting either Jefferson or Lee, neither of whom would have gotten as much coaching (ineffective as it’s been) and neither of whom would have had significant game experience.
I know the argument that 2008 scarred Lee irreparably, but Miles did everything but hold his hand out to the huddle this year, and he still showed the same old tendencies of throwing off balance and staring down receivers. I think it’s probable this team would have been better offensively the past two years with Perriloux (although I think he would have exited early for the NFL), but I don’t think there’s a reasonable argument that his departure affected this year.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
Bengal
You may be right about Perilloux this year. I definitely think we would have been a lot better the last two years, and I doubt he would have gone out early. He would have been a huge improvement, but still needed work.
I guess there’s no way to know how Lee or JJ would have played this year – without the last two bad years…but I’m inclined to think that the benefits of experience don’t outweigh the negatives of really, really bad experience on their parts. If Perilloux had been here for them to sit behind him for 2 years I think they could have been much more prepared. I think Lee might have looked more like a less mobile version of Flynn after 3 years behind a good starter. And there’s no telling what JJ could have done with 2 years to learn instead of going in as a very young frosh.
You clearly can't ID a troll or an elite program.
If we stay where we are, we won’t keep winning 10 or 9 games a year. If you didn’t agree you would not be begging for Crowton to get the axe. Yet, you say we are the cream of the crop – without a viable offense? That is just irrational.
Our D is good, young, and improving. We starts emerging but we have starts to replace as well. But Fla will be improved next year to, OR will not play like UNC, and the ball will statistically bounce the other way in the next Tenn situation, etc.
I was on board the delusional optimism train when that meant ignoring the rantards that wanted mid-season coaching firings and Miles shipped to Colo. Hell yes be damn optimistic about our team. But there is a great divide between optimism each weak and sticking you thumb in your mouth and mumbling “I am elite, I am elite” after the regular season in the face of one of the worst offenses in the country year after year.
And don’t say “we all agree the O sucks, but we are elite”. That is lame BS. If Miles sees the world like you do, he would be wise to keep Crowton, cause hell, we are an elite program – why mess with a successful mix.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 30, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Okay, now I'm getting annoyed, but I'm going to be polite
Because you are not reading what we are saying.
Me:
And I don’t think anybody would argue against making an OC change
Poseur:
I’m unhappy with Crowton and want him gone
Me:
we’re pretty steadily calling for Gary Crowton to move on
Poseur:
We absolutely agree that Crowton is terrible.
I don’t think there’s a single poster in this thread of on this site that doesn’t want Gary Crowton replaced. Just like there aren’t any Florida fans (and you certainly call them elite) that want to keep Steve Addazio either, and his crappy offense cost the Gators more than LSU’s crappy offense did.
I’m desperately trying to figure out what is leading you to say things like this:
And don’t say "we all agree the O sucks, but we are elite". That is lame BS. If Miles sees the world like you do, he would be wise to keep Crowton, cause hell, we are an elite program – why mess with a successful mix.
Because it has not been said or implied once. Having to replace an offensive coordinator does not somehow make you an also-ran program.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 30, 2010 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
You seem to also have this problem
You clearly can’t ID a troll or an elite program.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 30, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
Simple difference of opinion:
I don’t think a program in its 3rd year of a terrible offense with a ground swell of demand for heads year after year, not expected to win most tough games, not expected to win (or place second) on its conf, etc., is an Elite program.
You don’t have to agree, or get annoyed that some don’t see the world the same as you.
If UT does not rebound in a hurry, they would slip from my Elite group, same for Fla, and all others. Elite can be lost easy – lose a HC or a good Coordinator can do it. Losing a QB can do it.
And not getting your offense on track for years did it to LSU – IN MY EYES! I want them to improve, and if they were where I think Elite teams are, I would not have such a strong desire for immediate change, and I don’t think you would either.
Again, I’m a fan of rational discussion – not the forum for that I know – so don’t get overly worked up. We “trolls” just like to have discussions about topics we care about.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 30, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Ok, so rationally
First off, the offense wasn’t terrible in 2008. It was turnover-prone with freshman quarterbacks (which is expected at any program), but still productive and scored points. That team’s problem was defense (corrected since, obviously).
I don’t think a program in its 3rd year of a terrible offense with a ground swell of demand for heads year after year, not expected to win most tough games, not expected to win (or place second) on its conf, etc., is an Elite program.
Again, I’m a fan of rational discussion – not the forum for that I know – so don’t get overly worked up.
Back to the top quote. Name that programs you consider elite. By that definition. Because by your various circuitous statements, the entire SEC is no longer elite.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 30, 2010 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
I'd say Bama and Fla b/c
Saban got to bring our Mojo with him – as sickening as that is. So within 3 yrs he regained what O’Bama has not had since ‘91 or earlier. But they are expected to win even when talent is off of its norm. Maybe that is a better definiton? I don’t know.
Fla b/c they win so damn much that all expect that to continue. Yes they want the 1st year OC gone after Tebow left, but I don’t see that as a Crowton situation at all.
OSU and OU, same thing. They may have a down year, but seldom does it stretch more than one even when they lose top talent.
And I agree, the O was not as terrible in 2008, but where was it ranked? I had the thought we had been below 80 in total O for 3 years. For an elite program (again, to me) you need to be able to score. And in 2008 the D was bad, not helping our Elite status in that period.
And semi-agree about VT. But they play such a weak schedule they get the old Miami/FSU benefit of ultra high ranking until they lose. So I’m not sure I’d call them Elite anymore.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 30, 2010 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
First off, this:
And I agree, the O was not as terrible in 2008, but where was it ranked? I had the thought we had been below 80 in total O for 3 years.
Is just factually wrong. Offense was ranked 55th in total yards, 30th in scoring. Not great, but significantly above 80.
Saban got to bring our Mojo with him – as sickening as that is.
So is this about “mojo” or is it about wins? Because Saban has as many 3+ loss seasons in the last 4 as Miles (and surely “elite” programs do not lose to non-elites, right? Because Alabama lost to 3 this year, by your reckoning), with the same number of conference and national titles. So is this about perception, or reality? Because they are not the same.
But they are expected to win even when talent is off of its norm.
How is this not the case for LSU?
Elite is not one season – consistency is the primary element after winning.
See below. All of these programs have had similar struggles to LSU at times in the last few seasons. So if they are consistently elite, how is LSU not?
Florida: 7-5 this year with an offense ranked just 10 spots ahead of LSU (against a significantly lighter schedule). In the last 4 seasons they have as many 4+ loss seasons as LSU. Addazio is not a first-year OC, he was there last year as well. And yes, they weren’t happy then either.
Oklahoma: 8-5 a year ago, 3-loss regular seasons in 06/07 plus a 4-loss season the year before those. 1-3 in their last 4 bowls with losses to West Virginia and Boise State.
Ohio State: They have won 10 games like clockwork these last few years, I’ll give you that (although 2008’s 9-3 regular season doesn’t fit your “elite” definition). But they’re also 1-3 in their last 4 bowl games and have been outscored by an average of 30-21. LSU is 3-1 in their last 4 by an average score of 33-15.
By the definition of elite you have laid out in this thread, if LSU doesn’t fit, than neither do any of teams you cited. That is rational and objective, laid out by your own terms.
If you choose to call LSU non-elite, you are certainly free to do so. But you have yet to lay out any rational argument that is not applicable to the programs you claim are “elite.”
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 30, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
See, now that's a response I can say, Wow, did not realize some of those facts.
Food for thought is much more useful to me than the immediate “you hate LSU” responses.
I appreciate the effort to supply facts.
Perhaps LSU is in more rarefied air than I had been thinking. I still find it strange to find such discontent if the program really is in such good sted, but perhaps it is a greener grass issue?
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 30, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
Greener grass
Go read other fan’s message boards that you think are elite. They bitch and moan constantly. Just like us.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
I don't think
Fans are every really satisfied, and I don’t think we should be “satisfied” in the sense that everything is good and no changes are needed. But you can be satisfied that LSU had a very good season this year, because it did.
However the journey to get on top is one that really never ends, even when you’re the champ. And like I said before, this season was a step forward on that journey. It might not have been the step everybody wanted, but it was still a step forward.
What that next step is, is the question.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 30, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
yep. Go to Bama's board after a loss
or any other team – it’s just as bad as TD
+2
Also, go over to Alligator Army and see what they have to say about Meyer, Brantley, other players and of course Addazio. The level of bitching an moaning gets well beyond anything you will see over here. I mean, some of them wanted Meyer out after the Bama loss or LSU loss after the run he had and the unmatched recruiting he has accomplished.
"Wizard: Look at it this way. A man takes a job, you know? And that job - I mean, like that - That becomes what he is. You know, like - You do a thing and that's what you are. One guy lives in Brooklyn. One guy lives in Sutton Place. You got a lawyer. Another guy's a doctor. Another guy dies. Another guy gets well. People are born, y'know? I envy you, your youth. Go on, get laid, get drunk. Do anything. You got no choice, anyway. I mean, we're all f*****. More or less, ya know."
From the movie "Taxi Driver"
Zimm,
Work on reading comprehension.
For years VA Tech has been an elite program with an amazing defense and a really bad offense. They’ve had a few seasons of good O – but for the most part, they’ve won ugly on special teams and defense. 9 and 10 win seasons in a BCS conference makes you elite.
And I’m tired of hearing that the sky is falling and “next time, Bama, or UF, or whoever will be so much better than us.” That’s exactly what was said last year. Sure, UF will probably be better, but so will LSU.
I think Crowton should be fired – and have said that before.
I’m sorry, but someone who consistently ignores the basic argument others make and repeats the same thing over and over again is a troll.
Oh, I read well enough for a forum.
My point is very simple – to most. You don’t agree. Fine. But repeating your opinion that we are elite does no more to enhance the persuasive value of your position. Did that confuse you?
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 30, 2010 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
The problem is
You have yet to give any real reason WHY LSU is not elite that isn’t equally applicable to every program you have said you consider “elite.”
You’re doing an extremely poor job of making your case.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 30, 2010 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
How many times can repeat
(1) crap offense for years
(2) inability to beat weak teams convincingly
(3) not expected to win games against teams with comparable talent
(4) elite teams don’t want the HC fired b/c he wont’ fix the OC situation
That’s enough for me. The response has been that I am claiming the sky is falling and that 10 wins sucks or aint really 10 wins. That’s crap. I don’t want us comfortable where were are. And if we met my idea of Elite we would want exactly that – at least most years.
I guess we both think the other is doing little to make their case.
Time to get back to the paying clients.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 30, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
Our offense was good in 2008.
As long as your deffinition of good means lots of points and yards.
We had a lot of turnovers, but we moved the football.
elite teams don’t want the HC fired b/c he wont’ fix the OC situation
You must not know any Florida or Texas fans. Hell you must not know any Alabama fans either. I’m pretty sure there are exactly 4 teams in the country that are completely satisfied with their OC’s. Wisconsin, Oregon, Auburn, and Stanford. And I’m not even really that sure about Standford.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
add "year after year" to that quote and we can just disagree.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 30, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Adding “year after year” to the end of that quote only eliminates Albama from the 3 teams I’ve listed. Texas and Florida have been hating on their OC for multiple years, and I think Florida and Texas are “elite” teams.
Next year, if Bama doesn’t win the west (and I don’t think they will), they’ll be added back in the mix of fans who have hated their OC for multiple years.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
this is a lousy list
1) Plenty of teams are weak on one side of the ball – including “elite” teams. Look at Oklahoma on offense early in Stoops tenure or on D later. Look at VA tech on offense. Ohio State on Offense. Florida on offense without Tebow.
2) seriously? First, LSU crushed a number of weak teams this year. Second, every team in the country this year has struggled with one or more weak teams. Oregon barely beat a pathetic Cal team a couple of weeks ago. Auburn’s had more close calls than LSU.
3) Let’s see – so a “non-elite” team is not expected to win games against teams with similar talent. But an elite team is? If two elite teams play, who decides which team has the better talent? I mean, seriously, this is an argument?
4) UGA, Richt and his defense, UF, Meyer and his OC, UT, Mack and any coordinator any other year.
I hope you’re not a lawyer man.
Ok, name the another elite programs
with all four of those (not to mention the others above I did not reiterate again) issues existing for years on end?
1) as you state, the problems were corrected at those schools – bingo!
2) we did not crush Tenn, Ole Miss, UNC, Vandy…did I forget any? Yes, constant struggle to beat weak teams is a problem.
3) went over your head.
4) UGA is not elite – big, not elite. UF is in a 1st year slump – you think the UF or UT and LSU situations are the same? Really?
We are a very good program – to 15 I’d say. Not Also-Rans, not crap, but not Elite either. Not sure you would find many outside this board and TD to disagree.
But hey, I’m a Troll, so what do I know.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 30, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
woah
1) what are you talking about? VA tech’s offense still sucks. Ohio State is wildly inconsistent on offense, even against lousy competition. Have you seen Oklahoma the last two years? What is it now, 9 losses?
2) We actually did crush Vandy and MIss. State. Aside from them and our instate opponents, most of our games were pretty close, but we also played a tough schedule. Sure, I’d have liked to beat Tenn and Old Miss by more, but we have, as everyone here has acknowledged, a weak offense and a bad OC. Those games weren’t any closer or more embarrassing than Ohio State’s annual close win over Purdue or Indiana or whoever.
3) No – it was a load of crap. You said LSU’s not elite because we aren’t expected (by whom?) to beat teams with similar talent. Take any two “elite” teams – if they played each other, one would be favored. Does that make the other “not elite.” Of course not.
4) Look – your argument on point 4 is that fans of elite teams don’t complain about their coordinators. That’s complete bunk, as UGA, UF, UT, VA tech, Ohio State, Oklahoma etc. show. Fans of top teams whine all the time. One of the best things about this blog is that we have fans that complain about things – but can still enjoy the wins.
Finally, I don’t buy the “perception” argument – but the fact is that LSU was the highest ranked 1 loss team last week and is the third highest 2 loss team – behind the Arky team we lost to and VA tech. It’s not like the pollsters think – gee LSU sucks. We get a ton of credibility based on a decade of success in the toughest conference in the country.
I think I understand where you are coming from, but I'm a little fuzzy about this:
a 2 year run that puts us in the elite status I’m talking about – i.e., where we are not picked to finish last in the West.
When were we picked to be last in the West?
As for UT, they have won a BCS and played for another in the last five years, so combining that with the past several decades, I can see how you might consider them elite. Whom else do you consider elite? I am not trying to start a fight here, I am just curious.
Cauhgt me - 4th in west feels like last
It is a fear issue I guess at it’s root. So who, hard question but let the flaming begin as I can’t check history on this iPad so facts will bite me.
LSU if we can get two more top 7 (or so) finishes.
Fla, UT, OSU, OU, always a threat to win it all and player losses seldom cripple them.
O’Bama – vomited in my mouth but Saban has them rolling.
USC up to Bush penalty but spot not filled yet.
Oregon has been a terror far several years.
That’s all that jumps out. Just below that you hit us and a pack of team that have been very good but unable to keep it at that level year after year.
Oh, an Notre Dame cause they are … Well N D. :-)
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 29, 2010 6:54 PM CST up reply actions
Elite schools
Check out how Florida and Texas are doing. I’d still consider them elite programs, they are just having down years. But our down year was better and we’re back on track. Asking non-stop ten-win seasons is something no school can accomplish.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
Zimm is crazy
He thinks LSU isn’t elite lately but UT and UF are. That’s the same UT that isn’t bowl eligible, right? Oregon’s been good the last couple of years, but not for a decade. And Bama sucked 3 years ago. As of this year, I believe LSU is the only team with 10 straight 8 win seasons. There’s a lot of ways to measure program success, but by any rational measure, LSU has been a top ten program in the last decade.
can we rec this?
Who the heck can still make that ‘trending down’ argument?
6>5>3
10>9>8
Trend UP, no other conclusion to come to.
Another trend – Recruiting = 3 straight top 5 finish coming up!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
by SouthernMan on Nov 30, 2010 11:36 PM CST up reply actions
WOW should have read more before responding WAY up the thread.
ZimZim,
You make a ThinThin argument.
The truth of the matter, as pointed out above, LSU has been THE MOST CONSISTIENT team over the last decade.
Consistently frustrating to fans who want us to blow out our opponents every game, yes.
But boy those wins keep piling up! 2nd half of the decade better than the first, which is saying a lot.
EMBRACE the team man, and EMBRACE the coach that THEY love.
LSU is an Elite program with an Elite Coach and there is no way around it.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Don't confuse the concept of thinking our team is far from reaching its potential with not embracing the team or Miles. I think Miles is the best coach we could hope for right now, and if I embraced the team any harder we would be married in Hawaii.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Dec 1, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
Gary needs to go...
keeping him was a mistake this year. Whoever made that decision, and there are nothing but unsubstantiated rumors out there, made a bad decision. If it was a money decision it cost us more. If it was a feeling that he would do better it was obviously misplaced. The guy just seems to be a stubborn man so wedded to his clever play design that he loses track of down and time and distance.
Running the ball while subbing in different personnel packages in the red zone with under three minutes and no few TO’s left was just incredible. He just can’t give up on the subs, even though he admitted it was a mistake in the Tenn game. Just run a freaking play with who you have on the field Gary! Is it that hard to understand? Time is running out! Stop it!
My God!!
And my lasting memory of JJ from his career at LSU will probably be of him scrambling for an early snap as time runs out. What an offensive team.
Overall a good season and solid effort in just about every game. It does seem like a nice dinner with a lousy dessert right now though. I hope the finish is better than last year.
And the “Stuck on Stupid Award” for the week still goes to Dallas Cowboy WR Roy Williams, though it was heartbreaking not to be able to vote for Karnell Hatcher. There is a reason that position is called “safety.”
Hell
What’s really scary is now that the option is actually working for this team, it was maybe run twice or three times all game.
You won’t read any defenses of Crowton on this site.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2010 8:27 PM CST up reply actions
Great Write Up
Its very rare when a guy individually costs you 14 points but thats Hatcher Saturday. Losing Brandon Taylor and Big Sam really hurt this defense. We haven’t been the same.
Still very happy with the season although I agree with the sentiments above about the big necessity of firing Gary Crowton and fixing the O – To that end, I sure hope Mettenberger comes here and provides an upgrade for us while playing for a new OC.
I said before the season started 9-3 would be a great record with the schedule we played. Saying our opponents were down is crap. Beating Florida at home is always a great accomplishment, WVa is good, Miss St is very solid and Bama is Bama. Those are good wins, period.
The only thing I was really upset with re: the refs was the no call on the helmet to helmet on JJ – that was the most obvious call ever. That would have been first and goal from inside the 10. Horrible call.
Keep doing a great job on the site guys. One thing we know about Miles is that his teams usually play very well with time to prepare.
Look forward to the run up to the bowl game with you boys.
Great season - I think any reasonable observer thought
9-3 or 10-2 would be very solid. We came out on the high side of that. We were hurt by a couple of things in this game.
1) surprisingly, we got beat on both lines. I know Arky’s OL had a lot of seniors and no injuries this year – but still, we got very little pressure, even when we blitzed. Our Oline got killed for the most part. We’re still suffering from bad recruiting/kids leaving in 2005-6 and injuries this year. It has been a LONG time since we’ve had a dominant DE rusher. Losing Sam really hurt.
2) Our linebackers are not very good. How many times did KS get blocked one on one by the full back, leaving the RB free. He gets 10 tackles a game, but most are 8 yards past the LOS.
3) Our DBs are very talented, but young, and Hatcher was a huge dissapointment. Cost us the game.
4) As good as JJ was against Bama and Old Miss, he went back to suckage for most of last night. We have about 1/2 of a QB between our 2 guys. Lee can’t stop throwing off his back foot, and JJ doesn’t seem to have the football IQ needed. Right at the beginning of the game, maybe the first play, we ran a zone read, the DL came right up the middle but instead of handing it off to Ford on the sweep JJ held it and lost 5 yards. He doesn’t trust his RBs and his WR don’t trust him.
5) Zod is awesome but he’s made key mistakes in coverage down the stretch. Can someone who knows more than me say – on the first Hatcher screw up – Zod had the outside WR who scored, but he immediately broke inside – I couldn’t tell if he was taking the inside receiver or breaking on a run fake. Was he supposed to stay with the outside guy?
6) Crowton really really really really really sucks.
7) WIth a Dline as deep as ours, how are they getting worn down at the end of games? Are we not rotating enough guys?
Below response was supposed to be reply to your post
I must create my belief system lest I be enslaved by another - Thomas Paine
by Curtis Bleaux on Nov 28, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
#5
It looked to me a Cover 2 look, so once the WR goes past the 7-8 yd. short zone Zod let him go b/c it’s now the safeties’ (in this case, Hatcher) responsibility.
As Zod was on the outside receiver & he vacated his zone, since Zod has outside zone & with no other Arky player in the outside zone area, he “breaks” inside to help squeeze coverage on the inside receiver(s). In other words, why cover a zone when there’s no one to cover? Help out in the next zone.
I must create my belief system lest I be enslaved by another - Thomas Paine
Just saw the play on the CST replay
It was definitely a Cover 2 or a Tampa 2 to be more precise where the MLB drops a little deeper in middle zone coverage.
I must create my belief system lest I be enslaved by another - Thomas Paine
by Curtis Bleaux on Nov 28, 2010 8:38 PM CST up reply actions
LSU should go pro-style
It appears likely that LSU will nab QB Zach Mettenberger from Butler Community College. There’s no better time than now for LSU to adopt a pro-style scheme. We have power backs, an astounding wealth of receivers, and an o-line that returns four starters and adds La’El Collins. A transition to pro-style would be smooth.
Mark Whipple would be a good choice, IMO.
Jrlz rhymes with Charles.
Dear God no
Whipple’s got one semi-good season, and Miami’s offense completely regressed this season despite quality skill position talent. He’s no upgrade.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2010 8:30 PM CST up reply actions
Was only commenting on his (un)employment status
Not an endorsement, but one never knows. There are probably better options out there.
Don’t forgot the botched no call for the helmet to helmet ( jaw actually ) hit on a sliding JJ. That was downright dirty and could have warranted an ejection on top of a 15 yard penalty. But alas, no call, even in replay ( and yes, that is something that while they were replaying it, they could have called – the defender shouldn’t even touch the QB once he starts sliding less its incidental ).
I’m a Chavis man, but I put a bit of this on him as well. Hatcher shouldn’t have been playing after his lack of effort vs Ole Miss, much less as the game went on. There was no reason to not be in a prevent before the half. He still has the DEs crashing / squeezing down, despite out OLBers continously failing to hold the edge, much less learning to stop the zone read look ( Auburn, Ole Miss and OT plays from Arky out of the same look ). Chavis has shown he is stubborn and sticks to his base D whether it is working or not – particularly vs plays & formations designed to exploit it.
Now in Chavis’ defense, even with what I saw above as shortcomings, if the O can keep them off the field any regular length of time, the D probably looks loads better in the 4th quarter. Crowton MUST go, period, end of discussion.
I couldn't believe the helmet to helmet wasn't even mentioned on the replay
and I wondered what in the heck Richard Murphy (God bless him, what a great young man) was doing in there in that situation. On a big third down play where he was stopped short I was screaming that Ridley would have gotten that extra yard.
A lot of mental mistakes by players and coaches alike. But I’m wearing shades cause the future’s so bright! Geaux Tigers!!!
CFBstats.com has a lot
Here‘s Jefferson’s situational passing. They don’t have situational for the whole offense though.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 29, 2010 8:40 AM CST up reply actions
No doubt this was a good season.
I thought we’d finish 4th in the West, we finished 3rd.
I thought we’d have 4 SEC losses we had two.
I thought Bama would roll us, and that wasn’t close to happening.
I’m pretty satisfied.
Having said that…Crowton has to go. We are still horribly disorganized on offense and are constantly underporforming our talent level. A change must be made if we ever want to win the west again. Next year should be our year. Auburn is going to be scary bad next year, Ole Miss will be better, but not great. State will be good again. Arky probably won’t see much of a drop-off. Bama won’t be dramatically improved.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
The West should be pretty tough again
But it’ll be a little more top-heavy. Bama-Arkansas-LSU should crowd the top.
Depending on who returns in that receiving corps, Arkansas may be the favorites. They only lose Rudell Crimm and Anthony Leon on defense.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 29, 2010 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
Mallet's gotta be gone huh?
Barring a lockout, dude is a top 3 (top 5 at worst) pick. He’s crazy not to go. He’s the best qb available and he’s the typical NFL dropback passer with height.
Arky's back-up QB is no slouch.
If LSU had Arky’s backup QB this year, we’d have won a BCS NC.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Yeah, Tyler Wilson looks legit
Arkansas very well could be the West favorite entering next season, especially if Wilson still has Childs, Adams and Wright to throw to.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 30, 2010 8:36 AM CST up reply actions
Billy,
4 questions:
1) How did your turkey and pork loin come out with the Big Easy?
2) Assuming Crowton is gone, is it pretty much assumed that Billy G will take over?
3) Is that OK with you?
4) If not, give me your top 3 on your “reasonable wishlist”.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Answers
1. Pork loin was excellent. Its really all about how you season any piece of meat, but I’m sure you know that. The turkey, I find that the Big Easy doesn’t crisp the skin quite as much, but I do think it seals in the juice of the turkey much better. So you get juicier meat, but don’t get that great crunchy skin to pick on.
2. That had been my assumption, but I can’t really say for sure if that’s the case, and the tea leaves don’t seem to indicate it right now.
3. I’d be a little more willing to entertain the idea than most, though a quality quarterback coach would have to fill the open spot on the staff. Gonzales is has a pretty good reputation, and the entire passing game was too dysfunctional this year for me to feel comfortable judging his work with the receivers, for better or for worse.
4. Pretty hard to narrow it down to 3, but I will have a list of names I think are legit possibilities soon. I plan in writing a larger piece on the hiring of head/assistant coaches in general, because I feel the process is still tremendously misunderstood.
I will add that Belowpar, the insider on TD.com who has generally been spot on, has mentioned that Miles wants to talk to Mike Leach. I have my theories on the significance of that, but I doubt he’s a true “offensive coordinator” candidate.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 30, 2010 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
I listened to Jack Arute and Mike Leach's show on XM
…on my drive from Huntsville to Dallas for Thanksgiving. It’s a pretty awful show due to Arute’s lack of knowledge of anything related to college football, and Mike Leach’s lack of polish for the radio…
But, someone called in and asked Leach if he wanted to get back into coaching, and Leach responded that he did. Then the caller asked if he’d ever think about being an OC again. Now Leach didn’t exactly sound enthusiastic about the idea, but he certainly didn’t dismiss it either. Before that call, I’d have put the chances of Leach being an OC again at about 0.1%. After that call, I’m prepared to up those chances to 5%.
With all the HC vacancies this year though, I’d be shocked if Leach didn’t have an offer to coach somehwere where the pay was good.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
My theory
Is any conversation between Miles and Leach would be more to discuss other coaches. As in Les getting Leach’s thoughts on other coordinators.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 30, 2010 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
Leach and Miles would not work well long term but Mike has a lot more respect in coaching circles than people give him credit for and I could see Mile consulting with him on guys he has worked with in the past.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
I agree with this
I thought we’d be 8-4, with a possibility of being 6-6 if we dropped the NC and WV games. This season was definite improvement. The defense has come along nicely and I expect further improvement, despite the losses of Nevis, Sheppard and Peterson. Sheppard’s leadership is going to be the toughest to replace, but hopefully Ryan Baker steps into that role of holding people accountable.
The biggest decision Miles has in the offseason is replacing Crowton. With the talent on this team, there’s no excuse for the offense ranking in the bottom half of FBS for two straight years. I mentioned it in another thread, but I wouldn’t be disappointed to see the entire offensive staff replaced with the notable exception of Frank Wilson.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
I don't think it takes a huge stretch to think that our D will be even better next year.
And I agree that Shep’s leadership may be the hardest thing to replace. But our LBers COULD BE better overall. As to Billy’s note above about Hatcher being a better fit at LB, I’m not sure we have the depth at S to make that happen. I guess it really depends on Ronnie Vinson and Sam Gibson’s development. But we probbaly want to look at moving someone like Blue to LB, just because he’ll probably be 4th on the depth chart next year with younger guys ahead of him.
Obviously, we’ll never replace Peterson’s ability in the secondary but overall, I could see our secondary being just as good next year. We have so much young talent there. I think we’ll have a problem if we have an injury at CB because I’m not sure about our depth. But if Tyrann and Mo Clo stay healthy, we won’t see much dropoff from the CB position, and our safeties will be better. Any word on Calhoun? Is he doing well at CB?
Our D-line will be more experienced, and heavier overall, despite losing Nevis…With Ego coming off a redshirt, Montgomery coming off an injury, Davenport getting another year to develop, Freak & Rasco possibly coming in as freshman, this D-line could really be something next year.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Second?
We finished tied for second didn’t we? With the Pigs.
Mighty Bama is all the way down there in third, all to themselves. Of course, if you ask, they’ll say they deserved or are worthy of first.
I only want credit for my one prediction, that we match up poorly with Bama (power running versus our light dline) and would win, and we match up well with the Hogs (awesome secondary and d versus pass heavy prostyle) and would lose.
As my Texas friends say, it don’t make a shit.
Tied for second losing a tie breaker or a solid 3rd?
This aint Ole Miss. We came in third…
Bama aint 3rd. Their 4th. There are 3 teams ahead of them any way you slice it.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
There is no tiebreaker except for first
We finished tied for second. the only reason you break a tie for first is so one school wins the championship. We finished tied for second. If you want to minimize accomplishments, that’s your right, but we are officially recognized as 2nd in the West. The SEC doesn’t break the tie because it doesn’t matter.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
We'll be going to a worse bowl than Arky, we're ranked behind Arky, Arky will be listed infront of LSU in every record book, and most importantly...Arky is better than us.
That’s good enough for third place to me.
It’s not like it matters. We had a great season. I’ll take 10-2 over the crap that was 7-5 and 9-3 the last two years. With the young talent we have, I’m confident that we are trending up. How steep is the curve? Well that depnds on who our OC is next year.
But Bama didn’t finish 3rd…They finished 4th. That much I’m sure of.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
I'm not 100% convinced that Arky gets a better bowl
Same record as us and we’re known as a better traveling fan base and LSU puts eyes on tv and butts in seats. I don’t really think we should rule out the Sugar as a possibility, but I guess we’ll know for sure in a week.
It's certainly possible
The Sugar isn’t bound to take Arkansas if Auburn wins. But it would feel sort of icky. I think the Hogs earned it.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
One more note on the announcers
I’ll say it. A Pam Ward/Craig James/Bob Davie poopoo platter would beat the Bolerjack-Buerlein combo.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Buerlein was absolutely terrible...
also, how about CBS waiting around 2 minutes w/ no action watching the players stand there. Then they cut away to a highlight of another game and we miss second down. i remember telling a friend, “if i cared about the TCU highlights, I would have watched the TCU game.”
I would have taken the tiger vision guys over this combo.
Those guys are awful
But Pam Ward is the worst ever. No way its better with her involved.
I'll see you Bob Davie
and raise you Fox’s announcing teams. Thank God they don’t have the BCS any more.
But I agree with everyone else in this thread. Pam Ward is the worst.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
I thought Davie-Jones' call of LSU-UW in 2009
Was the worst call of a game I’d ever seen, up until this past Saturday.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 30, 2010 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
I think any game that Herm Edwards commentates is horrible.
See LSU-Vandy this year.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Did anybody else see the Hatcher article
on http://bleacherreport.com/articles/528642-lsu-football-suspicious-big-plays-by-arkansas-defeat-lsu
“It would be easy to say at a glance that Hatcher just isn’t ready for the big stage and that the injury to starting safety Brandon Taylor really hurt the Tigers, but when you take a closer look, it does not look like Hatcher was overwhelmed or lacking ability—it looks like he was intentionally throwing plays.”
Wow! I think Hatcher really costs us dearly, but isn’t there a line this writer crossed? Them’s fighten words.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 30, 2010 12:10 PM CST reply actions
My only thought
It’s Bleacher Report. Any Humanoid with internet access can post an article there. Hatcher may not be a very good safety, but I don’t believe he’s throwing games. If anything, he goes for the big hit way too often. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him moved to linebacker this next season.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
It’s Bleacher Report. Any Humanoid with internet access can post an article there
I hope that’s the last time you call me a ‘humanoid’ young man; talk about fighting words!
For the record, FoxSports.net, ESPN, Rivals, CBS and other major media outlets regularly pick up Bleacher Report articles; it’s not just some ‘rant’ style article emporium.
Though one might get that impression reading the crap in that Hatcher piece.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Explain how I called you a Humanoid
I said any Humanoid with an internet account can post there. That does not equal every one who posts there is a Humanoid.
It’s obvious that there is no prior editorial review of articles on that site or that libelous article would never have been published.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
I was joking 'young man', now simmer down
There is an editorial process but a lot of the editors are interns. National writers tend to work with the senior editors due to greater exposure and nothing like that would ever get through.
Brett’s article is the exception, not the rule for that kind of trash.
Having said that, I think his mind set is emblematic of a disturbingly large segment of our fan base.
We jokingly refer to them (as you did above) as the humanoids but the truth is they love LSU as much as me and you, they’re just too stupefied to see how bringing harmful action against something you love is not usually a good thing.
Hey, our QB is struggling a little bit and doesn’t seem very confident right now, I know how to help: “BOOOOOOOOOOO” Go Die YOU PUNK SUCH and SUCH, I hate YOU, BOOOOOOOOOOO!"
That should help!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Hatcher throwing games?
That is a statement so absurd that it doesn’t even merit refutation. That is not a serious argument. He had a bad game. There’s no way a gambler who had money on the points bribed LSU’s backup safety. It makes no logical sense.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
Agreed, I was hoping I was not alone on that absurdity of that.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 30, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
Not only that
That’s just a hell of an accusation to throw out there. That’s not just fightin’ words, thems lawyerin’ words.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 30, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
Billy
I can tell you it was handled well by LSU.
I was offended myself by the article and glad that LSU took the position it did.
Bleacher Report was very quick to act and does have guidelines against that kind of thing.
The Editors should have caught it and BR will be sending out instructions to beef up their efforts to keep that type of thing off the site.
Again, on behalf of the BR-LSU community, sorry!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
FYI - This Article was removed from Bleacher Report
I know BR gets a bad rep for allowing any hack (hey ma, look at me) get published but there is a lot of merit to what BR is all about and there are a lot of good articles/writers on the site.
This was NOT one of them. I can tell you that a call was made by LSU to BR and the issue was handled. (the article was also deleted)
The allegations were completely absurd and the editors should have whacked that entire article as soon as it was posted.
Please accept my apology on behalf of the LSU – Bleacher Report community.
On another note; the guy that wrote that crap LOVES LSU. In his heart he bleeds Purple and Gold just like we do but he goes all wacky because we lose a game and an 18 year old has a particularly bad day – HOW in the world do we (the LSU fan base) have so freaking many of these people that call themselves fans that do HARMFUL crap to the program?
Accusing our player of a CRIME on Bleacher Report, posting a hate filled diatribe on JJ’s Facebook, BOOing our QBs out of the Stadium?
Is our society just getting to the point where people have NO common sense what so ever?
My lord, help us.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Glad to hear they removed it.
With Cam-gate still swirling, the timing for wild-ass conspiracy theories cloaked as para-journalism was just horrific. (Not that Cam-gate is a conspiracy theory at this point.)
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Dec 1, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Is there ever a good time to accuse your own team's players
of criminal activity with absolutely nothing to base it on?
However, ala CamGate, if we ever did catch a player throwing games could he just say his parents told him to play bad but didn’t tell him why and then it’d be ok?
I really can’t beleive the NCAA and SEC have done this. They would have been better off just ignoring it and issuing this silly crap a year or two from now.
Why would ANY body not pay for players now?
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Great write-up BG
Just wanted to agree with some points and ask a question that hopefully somebody out there knows the answer to…
1) I am not one of those claims to know a lot about the X’s and O’s of football. My instant analysis of any game is probably a lot more subjective, but WHERE, I repeat WHERE was there any semblance of discipline on this defense?! I was frustrated the entire game because I watched defenders over pursue, get blocked out, and then run around. It seems like something we should’ve figured out between the Auburn and Ole Miss games.
2) I have never been more depressed that my radio attached to my television only gets FM, because WWL’s FM broadcast is so far behind television that it made my attempts to listen to Jim Hawthorne completely futile. The repeated calling for a punt block was laughable, the unapologetic bias towards Arkansas was nausea-inducing.
3) Could somebody please explain to me the rule that would not have caused for a penalty/ejection/suspension against the Arkansas player who 1) led with his helmet in a perfect spear (I thought this was made illegal in football years ago? I could be wrong) body configuration 2) hit JJ directly in the helmet as 3) he was OBVIOUSLY sliding. Am I just missing some discrepancy between college and NFL rules? I was outraged.
4) Zod/PP7 – we all love him and deservedly so. Truth is, he did have his part in us losing. At the very least he did nothing to help out his team when he got his personal foul called on the last punt return. It was kind of a lame call, but I think 9.9 times out of 10, it’s going to be called, and it backed up the LSU offense which had been struggling, to a point where the threat of a safety obviously was more prominent in JJ’s mind than ball security. Sometimes, you just have to pour your intensity into other things, like rallying your team, showing the offense that you believe in them (JJ is his roommate after all) instead of giving your opponent the satisfaction of knowing he has somehow gotten to you.
5) As a side note:
What is it about LSU-Arkansas that causes these crazy things to happen? A punt catches the back of an LSU player’s ankle for an easy Arkansas recovery
Read a story yesterday chronicling how that punt actually changed direction when it hit one of the cables supporting one of the cameras. If that wasn’t enough, it happened again on a Josh Jasper punt (I believe his shortest of the night) before the camera was moved at halftime and not used for the remainder of the game. Insane.
"I can tell you one thing: The grass in Tiger Stadium tastes best." - OUR damn strong football coach, Les Miles
News Flash! Miles loves the Status Quo
Maybe I was not crazy to think Miles would find 10 wins all the proof he needed that there was no need to can GC. Holy Shit.
Pick your favorite offense Miles:
West Coast
Spread
Power I
Wishbone
Status Quo 3.0 (ding! ding! ding!)
Fuck me. Metzenkatsbergnurembin better be the next Joe Montana if he can be a star under Crowton’s confidence killing, strenght avoiding, Miles-with-a-dead-hooker relying offense.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Dec 2, 2010 9:56 AM CST reply actions
Zimm
I’m finishing up a big piece on hiring assistants you should read. I’ll talk about time-lines in there as well.
I can guarantee that whatever happens to Gary Crowton, we won’t know for sure until after the bowl game, and you pretty much should disregard anything you hear unless Miles is directly quoted saying “Gary Crowton will be the offensive coordinator here in 2010.”
And yes, it has to be that type of explicit. Trust me on that.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
How does "to be real honest, I don't want to talk about that"
equal “Hey i think things are great and I will never change anything”?
Chill man, its bowl prep time.
Miles will work quietly to do whatever he is going to do and then we’ll hear what a fine contribution so and so made when they head off to their new gig.
It’s called having class.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Hold on, timing is everything here.
In my defense, the "I don’t want to talk about that now" statement came a day after the Time Pic Article I was referencing which was titled "LSU football Coach Les Miles said he isn’t leaving, not planning offensive staff changes" and included the following responses to the Crowton issues:
“I like what’s going on,” Miles said. "Our offensive line is maturing. Our quarterbacks are maturing. I like our receiving corps. I think this bowl game will be an opportunity for us to play best.
“I did see progress. I certainly have enjoyed the efforts our entrie offensive staff has gone through.”
…
“I was never contacted by anyone (from ULL),” Crowton said. ""I have no interest in that job and I don’t think they have any interest in me. I plan on being back at LSU next year.
“I’m excited about the bowl game. I think the improvement will continue and into next year. The quarterbacks are getting better and we’ll have some new guys coming in next year.”
Those quotes and the headline from a decent reporter are a million miles from "I don’t want to talk about that now." I have no problem with the more recent statement…which I think was a direct result of my expressed dissatisfaction. Had I known Miles was waiting to hear from me I would have posted my thoughts on Gary sooner.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Dec 3, 2010 11:40 AM CST reply actions
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SEC Baseball Standings
Last Update: May 19
# - SEC Tournament Seeding
Team Name = Eliminated from SEC Tournament
| West | Conf | Overall | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
1 LSU Tigers  |
19 | 11 | 42 | 14 |
| 6 Arkansas Razorbacks |
16 | 14 | 39 | 17 |
| 7 Mississippi St. Bulldogs |
16 | 14 | 34 | 21 |
| 9 Mississippi Rebels |
14 | 16 | 34 | 22 |
| 10 Auburn Tigers |
13 | 17 | 30 | 26 |
| |
9 | 21 | 21 | 34 |
| East | Conf | Overall | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
| 2 South Carolina Gamecocks |
18 | 11 | 39 | 15 |
| 4 Kentucky Wildcats |
18 | 12 | 41 | 15 |
| 3 Florida Gators |
18 | 12 | 40 | 16 |
| 5 Vanderbilt Commodores |
16 | 14 | 29 | 25 |
| 8 Georgia Bulldogs |
14 | 15 | 31 | 24 |
|
8 | 22 | 24 | 31 |
