The Coaching Carousel: An ATVS Guide to Hiring College Football Coaches (Updated 1/12/2011)
Ed. Note: In the wake of yesterday's events, we now know that LSU won't be hiring a head coach. But there's been no clear word one way or the other on Gary Crowton's status (though there are rumors he could be headed to Maryland). And with Les Miles giving the keynote speech at the AFCA's convention in Dallas this week, if there's going to be a change, it could come soon. Conventions like this are big breeding grounds for these types of moves. As such, I'm going to repost this with a few updates to the names list.
Recruiting sometimes gets called college football's "silly season," but to me, that phrase applies a lot more towards the annual December-through-February coaching carousel.
Part of what makes it silly is that fans buy into the idea that programs can just "cherry pick" any coach the way they "cherry pick" the top recruits. And of course, the process is a lot more complicated than that.
As such, allow me to present the official And the Valley Shook Guide to the Hiring of College Football Coaches TM!
Part 1: Hiring Assistant Coaches
We'll break this into two parts, but start with assistant coaches because, well, that's the most relevant process to LSU right now (although you can apply these principles to any program). While there's been no official word, most of us are expecting there to be some shaking up of the offensive staff.
Whenever there's a coaching opening at a major program fans tend to throw out every name they can think of, as though there's a grocery list of the top assistants for any head coach to pick up at the supermarket. Every message board will have multiple threads dedicated to why a team should (or should not) hire this guy or that guy. Half of the time, the coach in question isn't even an actual candidate for said job opening. Why? Because there's a process to how these candidates are identified, whittled down, interviews and hired. In order to understand how this process works, you have to answer two questions:
What coaches are available?
In theory, they all are. After all, everybody has a price, right?
He says yes. And then he cackles.
via www.onlineworldofwrestling.com
Of course, reality and theory don't always line up.
Does the coach in question have a job? Are you offering him a better one? Would his current employer make efforts keep him?
Obviously, these things depend on what job you're trying to fill, and what coach you're pursuing. If you're, say, LSU and you're, say, trying to hire a new offensive coordinator*, you would probably start with offensive assistants and coordinators for other teams, or perhaps from the NFL.
And here's where the supermarket analogy comes back into play. People have gotten into the mindset that a top-10 program like LSU can have any assistant they might want, because, well, who wouldn't want to come and coach here.
**Ed. Note: I have to stress that as far as I know as of this writing, this is entirely hypothetical. While we all expect Gary Crowton to leave, there's been no official word yet. And I want to be clear that I'm not implying any sort of inside information on this front. **
There's more to it than that. In this modern age of big-money TV contracts and hundreds of cable channels, the stage is bigger, and so is the spotlight. If you're at least middle-of-the-pack in any BCS conference, chances are you get to play in front of a nation-wide audience on either a cable or broadcast network several times a season. Big time schools can no longer exclusively offer that. So that means they have to offer other things, like a promotion, or a bigger paycheck.
Diddy knows what's up.
If you're at a program from a mid-major conference, a major conference is an automatic upgrade. But if you're already at one, it's generally all about the Benjamins. Otherwise, why take the risk? Think about it in terms of your own employment. You have a perfectly stable job that you enjoy at a nice mid-sized [insert business] firm. A bigger firm in another town wants you for a job. Sure, it's clearly a more prestigious gig, but there's also pressure and more spotlight, which also means less security. On top of that, you'd have to move your family, leave behind friends, pull kids out of a school, etc...Would you do it if the bigger firm wasn't making it worth your while financially? Of course not. Prestige won't pay your bills or send your kids to college. So why would a coach be any different?
If they're not getting a clear position-coach-to-coordinator promotion, a lot of coaches are generally given some sort of other title like assistant or associate head coach, passing or running game coordinator, recruiting coordinator, etc...in order to justify a higher salary. Sometimes this is due to state laws or university hiring bylaws, or sometimes it's just a way of getting a foot in the door with said assistant, as some schools will hold them to their contracts unless they are seeking career advancement. Both of LSU's big assistant hires of last year are examples of this. Billy Gonzales and Frank Wilson, received extra titles (passing game coordinator and recruiting coordinator) and raises from their previous jobs. We've also seen it with other major hires. In his coordinator days, Gene Chizik went from Auburn to Texas and gained an associate head coach title and accompanying raise. Mack Brown also gave Will Muschamp a salary bump for the same move a few years later.
In a previous post and commenting thread, the name Dana Holgorsen came up. He and Gus Malzahn are probably the two hottest coordinators in the country right now, which is why I don't think he's really a viable candidate for LSU. The university can't really offer him a lot more exposure (this is obvious in Malzahn's case). Oklahoma State is a 10-win team that's been winning steadily the last few years with an entertaining attack and big-name offensive players. Can LSU offer him more exposure? Yes, but not a lot in relative terms. Regardless of whether he stays in Stillwater or not, Holgorsen will be the head coach at a non-AQ-conference school in the next two or three years. That leaves money as the next best incentive, and then T. Boone Pickens enters the picture. LSU can pay a lot of money for a coach, but it can still be outbid at a high enough level. Note: Holgorsen has since left Okie State, and obviously there was a promotion involved.
Now, obviously, personal issues are the wild card in all of this. A coach may simply enjoy his current lot in life or be reluctant to uproot his family (a close friend of mine currently in high school coaching passed on a chance to follow Mack Brown from Tulane to North Carolina years ago for this very reason). Or he may have a falling out with his current university or coach. These situations are generally rare, but they do come up. In those cases, you can throw a lot of these guidelines out.
Hiring coaches out of the NFL is also a different process, because coaching in the NFL is very different from the college level. Coaches who get to that level generally like to stay there, whether as the head guy, a position coach or a coordinator. They have excellent health benefits, including a pension. Plus, the schedule is less rigorous, despite what you may have seen from time to time about the work habits of guys like John Gruden or Bill Belichick, because there's no recruiting. Sure, you might work a 12 or 16-hour day between film sessions, meetings and practices, but so do college coaches. Only in the NFL, when all that is done, you are done and you get to go home. You don't have to call your assigned recruits, or keep taps on the grades/social lives of your current players. In college, if a third-string receiver is failing his classes, the head coach will want that receivers coach to explain why he wasn't getting the proper tutoring or spending the necessary time in study hall. In the NFL, all a coach is responsible for is preparing the current players he's coaching for the opponents on the schedule. This is why you see old hands like Pete Jenkins, George Stewart, Alex Gibbs or Bobby April coaching well into old age. So once again, if you want an NFL guy, a promotion and a raise have to be a given part of the offer.
What is the connection?
Finding a job is almost always about who you know. That idea shouldn't be new to anybody. Sometimes it's a friend who tells you that a company will be hiring soon. Sometimes it's a friend who recommends you to another friend. Sometimes it's a headhunter, who makes it his business to know what jobs are open and the qualified professionals looking for them.
Coaching is the same way. Personal connections are always in play when a hiring is made. Staffs work closely together, so everybody has to be on the same page in terms of work ethic, on-field philosophy and personal relationships. After all, who wants to work with a complete dick you hate to see every day?
So when a head coach has a position to fill, he generally starts by putting out feelers among friends and colleagues he knows that he and his other assistants can work with. It might be somebody that either he or a member of his staff has worked with (or even against) in the past. It might be somebody a friend or colleague recommends. Take the rumors regarding Les Miles seeking out Mike Leach. I doubt Leach would ever consider going back to coordinating (he'll almost certainly have a chance at a head-coaching gig soon enough) but he's an offensive mind any coach would respect, and he could definitely point Miles in the direction of other coaches.
Sometimes the recommendation even comes from an outside party or non-coach - such as when Pete Jenkins, a well-known coach in Louisiana, was recommended to Nick Saban for his first staff at LSU by people close to the program. Or it might even be somebody he's spent time with at a camp or clinic. Whichever way the new guy arrives, chances are he won't be a complete stranger.
College coaching's a very regional profession for this very reason. Coaches and assistants in the same conference are all generally pretty close to each other and even with other coaches in the area that might work in other conferences. You run the roads in recruiting and develop relationships in certain areas with the high school coaches and officials (which is why you generally see a specific coach assigned to recruit specific state or a specific part of it) and you meet at coaching clinics or conference meetings. As such, you don't see a lot of long-distance coaching moves. Coaches in the southeast generally stick around in leagues like the SEC, ACC, Sun Belt or Conference USA. A coach that gets his start on the West Coast rarely makes a sudden jump to the East Coast, and vice-versa. Usually (there are, of course, always exceptions) there's a journey to it. Take Miles for example. Born, raised and reared as a coach in Big 10 country, he followed Michigan assistant Bill McCartney to Colorado. There, he learned about working in the Big 8/12 region and Texas, and from there he worked his way southeast to Oklahoma State, Dallas and eventually, here. It is worth noting that coaches that work in the NFL are usually the ones most likely to break out of a region, as it gets easier to branch out the most in the pro ranks.
Of course, there's also the schematic connection. A coach who wants to run a pure option attack isn't going to hire a receivers coach with a background in a West Coast Offense, just like a coach from a pro-style background isn't going to hire a quarterbacks coach with an option background. But things can mesh and evolve, as a lot of times systems that may seem very different, aren't quite to the degree you might think. LSU's offense might not look anything like the Mike Leach Air Raid, but that doesn't mean they don't occasionally run some of the same pass plays. And despite the Humanoid reputation of Les Miles as "a Bo Schembechler three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust wannabe," he's run one-back, three-wide attacks before at Oklahoma State.
And another thing that I really can't stress enough. Don't expect any sort of decision to come quickly. I would hope people would have learned this by now after the last two offseasons, but these decisions rarely happen before the bowl game. That's not a Miles thing, that's just how it generally works for most schools. For one, there's very little benefit to bringing in a new guy before a bowl game, and to be honest, the only two examples of a new one coming in pre-bowl involve Lou Tepper and Tony Franklin, so there's bad precedent. You only get a week of practice -- not enough time to implement a new scheme. So why bother changing the players' routine? There's also recruiting to consider, which is at a crucial juncture in December and January. If a head coach knows he has an assistant on his way out, he'll want to make sure he and other members of the staff can develop good enough relationships with that coach's recruits in order to soften the blow of a departure. Some coaches have also been known to let a vacancy linger for a few weeks deliberately. NCAA bylaws allow for head coaches to make extra visits when they don't have a full staff (a rule Miles has deliberately taken advantage of in each of the last two seasons). So expect quiet on this front for several more weeks.
All of this being said, here is what most of you have probably been waiting to see -- a list of realistic potential candidates to be LSU's offensive coordinator should Gary Crowton leave.
**Ed. Note: I cannot stress enough that I have no insider information as to who really is or isn't being considered, or even if a change is certain. But here's an educated guess, based on the availability/connection questions, of names that could possibly be up for consideration.**
We'll start with current college coaches.
Dana HolgorsenUpdate: Since named the OC and Coach in Waiting at West Virginia. Off the market.
Current job: Offensive coordinator, Oklahoma State
Holgorsen is just about everybody's top choice (and I don't just mean LSU fans), but for the reasons I've already outlined, I'm doubt he's really available.- Lincoln Riley
Current job: Offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach, East Carolina
Riley is a wunderkind of a coach at just 26 years old. He cut his teeth as the receivers coach at Texas Tech under Mike Leach. In his first year at ECU the Pirates jumped from 27 to 38 points per game, despite breaking a new quarterback. A move from ECU to LSU would be a no-brainer for a young guy like Riley, and if the Miles/Leach rumors are true, it could be to do some due diligence on him. - Phillip Montgomery
Current job: Co-offensive coordinator, quarterbacks/running backs, Baylor
Montgomery goes way back with Baylor head man Art Briles, and he played a big role in Briles' high-octane offenses at Houston. Though his background is in the spread, Montgomery's offenses have always been incredibly balanced (Baylor rushed for 2,406 yards this season and still threw for 3,336), and he's played a major role in developing productive quarterbacks and running backs. But he could also be somebody who would want to stay with Briles. And Baylor's not very likely to be Briles' last stop. - Blake Anderson
Current job: Offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach, Southern Mississippi
He's in his third year at Hattiesburg under Larry Fedora, an old-school spread offense guru, and USM has passed for 3,000 yards in each of those seasons with an average team passer rating of 136. Anderson also served as ULL's offensive coordinator in 2007, during which the team ranked 6th in the nation in rushing. Louisiana connections,and with Fedora rumored for the Minnesota job, may not be eager to move so far north. Update: Fedora's still in Hattiesburg, but that doesn't mean Anderson couldn't be had if a major program pursued him. - Danny Langsdorf
Current job: Offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach, Oregon State
Langsdorf is a veteran of teaching the passing game, and Oregon State has annually ranked high in passing since he joined Mike Riley's staff in 2004. Their offense uses a lot of multi-receiver packages, but at its heart is a run-and-play-action attack. He's spent two stints in the professional ranks, in the Canadian league and the New Orleans Saints for the 2002-2003 seaons. - Andy Ludwig
Current job: Offensive coordinator, California
A student of Jeff Tedford's pro-style offense and also the spread passing game, Ludwig worked with Tedford at Fresno State in the 90s before succeeding him at Oregon, and eventually moving on to Utah. He was the coordinator for the Utes' undefeated 2008 squad (which famously dissected Alabama in the Sugar Bowl). Played roles in the development of David Carr, Kellen Clements and Brian Johnson. - Kurt Roper
Current job: Offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach, Duke
A David Cutcliffe disciple, Roper got his start as a GA at Tennessee before becoming the QB coach at Ole Miss during Cutcliffe's time there. There, he served as the passing game coordinator for Eli Manning's last two seasons. Also worked as a running backs coach at UT in 2006-2007 when Cutcliffe returned, so John Chavis should have some familiarity as well. Did some great work with Duke's Thaddeus Lewis the last few seasons. - Kliff Kingsbury
Current job: Co-offensive coordinator/QB coach, Houston
You may remember Kingsbury as one of the ultra-productive quarterbacks of Leach's Texas Tech days. He just wrapped his first season working with Kevin Sumlin in Houston, following the aforementioned Holgorsen. The Cougars averaged 327 passing yard a game this year, despite using four different quarterbacks due to injury. Kingsbury could be a rising star, and is on the list of possible topics for the rumored Les/Leach powwow. - Steve Kragthorpe
Currently unemployed
The former Tulsa and Louisville head coach was supposed to serve as Texas A&M's passing game coordinator this year, but resigned the post in the summer due to an illness in his family. It was rumored Miles spoke with Kragthorpe about the OC job last winter, and is interested in talking to him again this season. He's a veteran pro-style type of coordinator, with a good reputation for working with QBs. Coached Drew Bledsoe to one the best seasons of his career with the Buffalo Bills in 2002. He was once considered one of the top up-and-coming coaches when he was hired in Louisville. The results at UL put a bad taste in most fans' mouths, but the list of good offensive minds that have failed as head coaches is a long one. Update: Rumored to be returning to Tulsa as head coach with Todd Graham headed to Pittsburgh. - Al Borges
Current job: Offensive coordinator, San Diego State
A veteran West-Coast-Offense guy, Borges is probably most well-known in LSU circles for his work at Auburn, which started out great in 2004 but tailed off over the next few seasons. He also worked with ex-LSU coach Gerry DiNardo (a close friend to Miles from their days on the Colorado staff) at Indiana, and ran the UCLA offense when Bob Toledo had them rolling in the late 90s. Tutored first-round quarterbacks Cade McNown and Jason Campbell. Update: Likely headed with Brady Hoke to Michigan.
Borges and Kragthorpe aren't the type of hires that make fans ooh and aah, but I liken them to the Chavis hire on defense. They run solid, fundamentally sound schemes built upon basic concepts. That may not reinvent the wheel, but it will work as long as there's good talent around. Borges gets a Crowton-like rap for the way the Auburn offense tailed off in 2006 and 2007, but when the talent was there (seriously, how much more could Borges have gotten out of the immortal Brandon Cox, folks) , so was the offense.
Current NFL Coaches:
These coaches are all something of long-shots, unless their head coaches find themselves unemployed. Most of these are position coaches, so offensive coordinator would be a promotion, but the question will be whether or not they would rather hold on to their current pro jobs. But all have some sort of connection to the LSU staff, so they are worthy of mention
- Steve Logan
Current job: Running backs coach, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
If I were asked to pick a first choice, Logan would be the man. He fits for a number of reasons, but first foremost would be his work with quarterbacks. He's mostly known for coaching Jeff Blake and David Garrard at East Carolina, and then Matt Ryan at Boston College, and he even spent a season with Rohan Davey in NFL Europe. He runs a pro-style attack built largely on the one-back set, and is known for teaching a system that new starters can transition into with relative ease. Perhaps the only smart step Jeff Jagodzinski has ever made as a head coach was bringing Logan with him to BC, and once that coaching situation blew up in Jags' face, it didn't take long for people to find out who was the brains of the outfit. Both were hired by the Bucs, with Jagodzinski as OC and Logan as running backs coach, but only one actually made it to the season once Raheem Morris realized Jagodzinski had very little to do with the game-planning or play-calling at BC. The NFL position coach situation could make Logan a tough pull, but he and Miles have coached together briefly before, with a year together on the Colorado staff. Update: Might be a tough pull, given that things are looking up in Tampa after a 10-6 finish with some good young playmakers. But with their season over, he's available if Miles wanted to gauge his interest. - David Lee
Current job: Quarterbacks coach, Miami DolphinsUpdate: Hired as offensive coordinator at Ole Miss.
Lee would be another dream hire, though it may be unlikely. He has two stints on Houston Nutt's Arkansas staff on his resume, and was due to follow him to Ole Miss before the Dolphins came calling. As a quarterbacks coach, he could be compared to Kragthorpe or Borges. Known for stressing the classic fundamentals we all think about in a pro-style offense. He helped coach Chad Pennington to an NFL Comeback Player of the Year award in 2008, and breathed competence into Casey Dick in 2007. He's also credited with bringing the Wildcat offense to the Dolphins from Arkansas. Also worked with Sean Payton on the Dallas Cowboys staff from 2003-2005. - Dirk Koetter
Current job: Offensive coordinator, Jacksonville Jaguars
A long shot, but Jack Del Rio's not exactly sitting on the most secure of seats. Koetter's developed a run-first and well-managed attack in the NFL, but his college offenses were known for high-octane passing attacks. He spent five years at Arizona State (I'm sure everybody remembers the Sun Devils pushing LSU to the limit in 2005) and coached the school's all-time leading passer (Andrew Walter), receiver (Derek Hagan) and a Makey-Award-winning tight end in Zach Miller. Before he was at ASU, Koetter was one of the early architects of the Boise State program in the late 90s. His offensive style has always leaned towards running and play-action, but he his passing game attacks down the field from a variety of angles. Works with former LSU receivers coach Todd Monken and former Alabama head coach Mike Shula. Update: Actually rumored in the Carolina Panther's head coach search, so if I had to guess, he's staying in the NFL. - Todd Monken
Current job: Wide Receivers coach, Jacksonville Jaguars
He was a member of Miles' first staff at LSU, and developed a great reputation those first two seasons as Dwayne Bowe and Buster Davis blossomed into first-round draft picks. Many thought he'd get the coordinator job when Jimbo Fisher left, but the NFL came calling. His name got a mention last year during the OC speculation as well. There are definitely questions, as he's never actually called plays before, but Monken has a great reputation as a teacher, with strict attention to detail, and definitely had his hands in the explosive 2006 passing game. He's also an excellent recruiter. Update: Part of me feels that even though he kept his job for another season, Jack Del Rio is on borrowed time in Jacksonville. If there's a "big fish" that could be gotten, Miles could maybe use his newly acquired control over staff to make a major offer to bring Monken back. - Craig Ver Steeg
Current job: Offensive assistant, Baltimore Ravens
Ver Steeg is a bit of a wildcard. He served as Rutgers' offensive coordinator and running backs coach from 2003-2007, including Ray Rice's ultra-productive last two seasons. Since then he's worked under Ravens' coordinator Cam Cameron, a colleague Miles has been known to consult from time to time. If Ver Steeg is interested in getting back in the college game, Cameron would likely point him in LSU's direction.Update: Wouldn't be available for discussion until the Ravens are eliminated from the NFL playoffs.
Update: Additional possible names/rumors.
- Paul Petrino
Current job: Offensive coordinator, Illinois
The younger brother of Arkansas' head coach, Paul was poached by Ron Zook last year for a nice salary believed to be in the 4-500 grand range, and it paid dividends in year one, as the Illini went from scoring 24 to 32 points per game. His background is in the QB-friendly combination spread/pro-style attack that Bobby uses, and that would likely mesh with Miles and LSU's personnel. But it would take a sizable offer to pull him, and he might be reluctant to compete against his brother directly.
- Seth Littrell
Current job: Offensive coordinator/running backs coach, Arizona
Littrell is a young name on the rise after taking over for Sonny Dykes at Arizona. He came up as a running backs coach at Texas Tech under Mike Leach, as much as you don't think "running backs" when you think about those Tech teams, their best running games and backs were coached by Littrell. Dykes (now the head coach at Louisiana Tech) brought Littrell with him to Arizona to help install a more run-based version of the Air Raid there to great success. With former BYU OC Robert Anae (another ex-Leach assistant) joining the staff in Tuscon, Littrell might be interested in striking out on his own. One question would be, what his background in quarterback coaching is.Update: Recently named to the full coordinator job in Arizona after sharing the duties last year, which might make him a tougher pull.
- Frank Scelfo
Current job: Quarterbacks coach, Arizona
Some might remember Scelfo from his days as Tulane's off. coordinator/QB coach. A native of Abbeville, Scelfo worked his way through high school ranks in Texas before joining his brother Chris at Tulane, and later worked on Derek Dooley's Louisiana Tech staff. He did a solid job in taking over for Dykes at ‘Zona, with Nick Foles having a pretty strong year. Scelfo would also bring some recruiting connections as well.
- Rob Chudzinski
Current job: Tight ends & assistant head coach, San Diego Chargers
Chud is a long-time Miami Hurricane assistant and ex-player, and served as offensive coordinator for the 2001 and 2002 juggernauts before joining Butch Davis in the NFL. When Davis left the Cleveland Browns, San Diego picked him up, where he played a major role in the development of Antonio Gates before rejoining the Browns on Romeo Crennel's staff - where he led the 2006 offensive explosion that had Derek Anderson, Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow all make the Pro Bowl. Chudzinski has worked extensively with Norv Turner, whose offensive style would fit in well at LSU. There have been some rumblings about him heading back to THA U, or maybe following Ron Rivera to the Panthers.
- Justin Fuente
Current job: Co-offensive coordinator/QB coach, TCU
If there's a young star on the rise that could be under consideration, it's Fuente. He originally joined the Horned Frog staff as a running backs coach, but since taking over their quarterbacks and co-coordinating in 2009, the offense has skyrocketed. TCU went from 33 ppg to 38 and 41 the last two years, with the team passing efficiency improving by 41 points as well. The Horned Frogs run a balanced attack that leans slightly more on the run, but Andy Dalton has put up strong numbers under Fuente, with 50 touchdowns and 14 picks combined the last two years. Striking out on his own might have some appeal for Fuente, who shares coordinating duties with long-time TCU assistant Jarrett Anderson. With the AFCA convention right there in Dallas, there's a good chance Miles would have an opportunity to speak with Fuente if he so chose.
- Billy Gonzales
Current job: Wide receivers coach/passing game coordinator, LSU
Most weren't impressed with Gonzales' first year on the field, but his reputation outside of the program is excellent, and everybody who's watched LSU practice since Gonzales came in raves about his attention to detail. Personally, I'm willing to cut him some slack, as the offense's issues went well beyond a receiver coach's ability to fix. The guy is a bright offensive mind that played a role in the evolution of Urban Meyer's offense from its pro-style roots with Scott Linehan, and his fingerprints were seen in several gameplans this year, including the Cotton Bowl. Gonzales will be an offensive coordinator eventually, whether it is at LSU or not, and don't be surprised if he gets the nod this time around. Such a promotion would likely come with the addition of a veteran quarterback coach, possibly one of the other coaches mentioned here.
Finally, on to two more unlikely rumors:
Mike Leach his has gotten a lot of play ever since the famous Belowpar of Tiger Droppings brought it up. As I said before, chances are if Miles and Leach are talking, it's more in a consigliere role. That being said, with his head coaching prospects drying up for another year, the idea of Leach, who I think we can all agree is a different breed of cat who isn't afraid to say and do different things, saying "what the hell" and becoming a coordinator isn't the crazies thing I've ever heard. So maybe the thought of a wild ride with Miles appeals to him. But I wouldn't bet on it.
Rich Rodriguez is another name that get mentions a lot, but the chances of this happening are way beyond even the remoteness of hiring Leach. Rodriguez just got put through the ringer in Ann Arbor, but the guy is a strong coach and a damn good offensive mind. After all the shots his image took in the last few years, expect him to take a year off, maybe do some analyst work, and pop up in the searches for some other ACC or Big East jobs next year. A longer shot than Leach, and that's pretty long.
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Nice article.
I didn’t expect to see (or hope for) any moves until after the Bowl for the reasons you list. But the recent headlines and quotes – “not planning offensive staff changes”, “Coach Miles said he wants me back” – looked like Miles was trying to defuse the bomb by making his decision now and letting the heat dissipate over the next month of quite.
His subsequent “I don’t want to talk about that now” statement shows he read the same handbook you did, and hopefully we can expect some staff shake up in January. At this point, I don’t really care who we get. As long as Miles recognizes that the offense as a whole, and player development in particular, is not adequate, I’m comfortable he can land a qualified replacement.
If he does not come to that conclusion, then I think we can fairly read into that that Miles sees his philosophy in the offense and knows Crowton is not the problem. That is an oil tanker of worms I hope we don’t have to dig through.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Dec 3, 2010 12:06 PM CST reply actions
Pay the man $5 mill per year...
and I’ll be fine with it. With all the power to say I’ll keep Crowton if I want, and you can’t complaint, Miles did the right thing for the program.
“He and Les have had a parting of the ways and Gary is looking for another job.”
No, let’s get the offense on track and bring home some crystal!
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Jan 12, 2011 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
Correct me if I am incorrect
But didn’t the TP run yesterday (or Wed.) a story with quotes from both Miles and Crowton pretty clearly stating Gary is coming back for next year? We may not like it, but there it is.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Dec 3, 2010 12:07 PM CST reply actions
I should add I'm suffering from residual football depression from Saturday
So I haven’t been following the news closely at all.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Dec 3, 2010 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
The Advocate
Also got the same quote out of that same Q&A session:
Asked a follow-up question about whether he wanted Crowton back as the offensive coordinator, Miles said "I’ve got to be real honest. I don’t want to talk about that. Endorsement, no endorsement — all those things are really without relevance at this point to me. This is about preparing a team for a bowl game, period. I think our offense has gotten better. And I think that our team is maturing."
So no, no real statement one way or the other. Just typical coach-search speak. And that’s all we’ll probably get until after the bowl game.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Dec 3, 2010 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
Stupid no edit function
I meant to say the Advocate got a very different quote out of that same Q&A session.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Dec 3, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
I'm pretty pissed if
the quote “I don’t want to talk about that” was from the same conference that generated Kleinpeter’s TP articles titled "LSU football Coach Les Miles said he isn’t leaving, not planning offensive staff changes"
That should be in an OpEd section, not a news report if he held that out.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Dec 3, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Great article...
I’m curious as to why you didn’t mention anything about promotion from within though. Especially with Billy G on the current staff. Personally, I’m never a fan of firing the head coach and promoting the assisstant, it’s the old saying, “Do you think the assisstant had the answer the whole time and was sitting on it?”
Assuming Mett signs, would Billy G even be an option? We’ve all seen what Florida’s offense looks like with Brantley at the helm. I can’t help but skeptical that we’d have a similar fate with the Mett-Billy G combo.
I’d be really interested in a hire like Todd Monken where he could basically serve as OC/WR coach, and then hire a full time QB coach. This would assume that Billy G would want to leave if he wasn’t getting the OC gig.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Actually...
Let me be more on point…
Given the talent we have all over the team…And the questions that we have at QB…
Does anyone think that Miles is going to pick an OC based on what happens for JUCO signing day?
It seems like QB is the only position keeping us from a legit NC run next year…
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Oversight I guess
I don’t know that Gonzales is a serious option or not, but coming into this year I theorized he’d probably get that shot. I figured that was a big part of his taking the job here in the first place. Though, in hindsight, he might have just wanted out of Florida giving how the Meyer-Addazio situation is going.
I will say this — the roots of Urban Meyer’s passing offense is in pro-style offenses, specifically the John L. Smith/Scott Linehan tree. So I could see Gonzales not necessarily running a total spread attack. As to whether he would leave if he didn’t get the gig, I would hope not. As to what role Zach Mettenberger plays in all this, that I definitely do not know.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Dec 3, 2010 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
I’m not an expert on offenses at all. But is sure seems like Urban Meyer’s offense falls apart when the defense doesn’t have to respect a fullback-sized QB dive option.
In other circumstances I think Billy G would get a shot. But I think Miles can smell the SEC championship trophy (I challenge anyone in the delusional optimism camp to say they’ve out optimisimed me here). I just don’t think he will settle for anyone who is not a proven coordinator. I’m not saying Billy G can’t do it, but I think there are a lot better candidates that would match our personnel.
Borges and Kragthorpe wouldn’t excite me either, but I think it is easy to see why their last jobs didn’t work out. Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
I challenge anyone in the delusional optimism camp to say they’ve out optimisimed me here
We may have to make you an honorary member
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
While anything would be an improvement
Kragthorpe and Borges really don’t do anything for me. Both of them seem to be failing downwards. Kragthorpe took Petrino’s program at Louisville and augered it into the earth. Yeah, I know some guys aren’t cut out for head coach, but the offense there went putrid really fast as well; he took an offense that was 2nd in the country when Petrino left to 91st in three years. And you mentioned that Borges started great at Auburn and then tailed off.
I would add Bryan Harsin to the mix. It would definitely be a step up for him from Boise to an AQ contender. Don’t know how loyal/married he is to Peterson, though.
Also, I’m pretty sure bowl teams get more than one week of practice. I thought it was up to 15 4 hour sessions, but I admit I didn’t go looking through the NCAA rulebook for that.
LSU’s search is more complicated by the fact that Texas, Florida, Miami, and Auburn are all possibly/likely looking for new OCs as well this season.
I’ve looked, but I can’t find any info on Miles’ offenses at OSU when he was OC there in the 90s. Did you find anything on his offenses there?
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
Harsin coaches at his alma mater
So I don’t think he’s all that likely.
And in defense of Borges…look at the offensive talent on those last two Auburn teams. Tuberville let the talent well really dry up, which is part of why he’s not there anymore. I’d say Borges squeezed every drop out of Brandon Cox. I know Borges and Kragthorpe might not get people going, but coordinators like them will get out of an offense whatever talent you put into that offense. A lot like John Chavis on defense.
I’ve never been able to find anything on Miles’ days as an OC, but his offenses at Okie State as a head coach were pretty balanced. They threw a lot more early on because of having talents like Josh Fields and Rashaun Woods (who once caught 7 TD’s in a single game). Later on as guys like Tatum Bell and Vernan Morrency developed, they leaned more towards the run, but I’d call that playing towards your talent. Miles’ last year they were really run heavy, but they were breaking in a freshman QB.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Dec 3, 2010 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
Also on Kragthorpe
If you read around, there were a LOT of issues surrounding Louisville that went beyond him.
Not saying it makes him a great head coach. But it wasn’t as simple as “he ran them into the ground.”
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Dec 3, 2010 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Kragthorpe
He’s Exhibit A in the case against falling in love with the hot co-ordinator right now. Two years ago, Kragthorpe was considered an offensive genius, now he’s the guy fans will only accept if they hold their nose. He’s still the same guy. Nothing changed but our perspective.
I actually like Kragthorpe, particularly for his work with QB’s, but I also want to use him as an example of why the current It Coaches may not be as great as you think. Even Malzahn. I’m a huge fan of getting the right coach instead of trying to “win the press conference”. I’d rather get a solid professional who will do a good job than get a guy who will generate headlines and excite the fanbase.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I can't firgure out where he got the offensive genius tag
His Tulsa offenses were above average (which I’d kill for now), but ranged from 24th to 73rd in Total Offense over his tenure. His offenses at Louisville went straight off a cliff. I’ll admit, I don’t remember his Texas A&M offenses from 1998-2000, so it’s possible his rep was established there. I understand recruiting plays a large part, but it is part of the job, even as an OC.
If he and Miles hit it off and can agree on how to fix the offense, great. I guess I’m holding out hope for someone equivalent to Chavis who can help get that side of the ball to an elite status as well.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
I don't know
that he’s ever been called an “offensive genius.” Just known as a pretty good quarterbacks and offensive fundamentals guy. Which is much more what LSU needs than another “genius” (or Wizard, as it were).
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
That's the way I see it.
If I felt Miles (and maybe he deserves more credit than I’m giving him here) would evolve with one of the AirRaid guys I think our offensive speed and defensive speed/depth might make us unstoppable as a team.
Outside of that we need someone that can get the O fundamentally sound and execute a power game…
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Outside of that we need someone that can get the O fundamentally sound and execute a power game…
I agree with this. I’m uncomfortable with the thought of an Air Raid guy because I fear that those offenses don’t keep the defenses off the field. Plus, one of the deficiencies of those teams is lack of a power running game to burn clock in the late stages of a game. That’s why I would prefer a pro-style or power spread kind of guy over the Mike Leach disciples.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
Were on the same page here
Except, I do think our defense scheme/speed/depth would actually be well suited to partner up with a successful AirRaid.
Keep in mind we have generally had to deal with quick (3 and out) offensive turn around anyway but if we were putting points on the board Chavis’ defenses would be fine and we are (and usually that is the case) deep enough to not get burned out.
Again, I’m not sure Miles is built that way so I’d still favor the power game.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
I have a really hard time
Believing the offense would move towards the Air Raid, if for no other reason than the personnel on hand. I mean the next recruiting class is going to have three 210-plus-pound running backs in it.
I’d like to think even a guy like Mike Leach would adapt to that personnel.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Another good point and why I am ultimately saying
that I don’t think the AirRaid brigade (Mike’s Acorns) are the perfect fit.
Could one of them, or Mike himself adapt? Maybe so.
The flip side of that is Tubs promising that he would adopt the AirRaid and keep it alive and well at TTU – unmitigated disaster! (but who didn’t see that coming?) :-)
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Plus - We've had an EXTREEMLY hard time
adapting to our own personnel offensively as it is, not sure we want to bring in someone who has developed one philosophy and ask them to change…
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Krags and Louisville
If you read around, there were a LOT of issues surrounding Louisville that went beyond him.
Like what? I remember there being some speculation that Petrino left Louisville in a bad place, but I don’t remember why,.
For starters, Krags was forced to keep a lot of Petrino’s assistants around by Louisville’s AD (something Jurich later admitted was a huge mistake), and that led to infighting in the staff, which led to a lot of the instability. There was also a lot of academic and discipline problems on the roster. Plus, while Petrino left a solid group of upperclassmen, there wasn’t much on deck once the guys like Brohm, Harry Douglass and Amobi Akoye were gone. That isn’t to totally excuse the tailspin that happened, but it wasn’t necessarily the plum situation people have often portrayed it to be.
But in general I don’t believe in disqualifying coordinators because they don’t make it as a head coach. And Kragthorpe’s resume is pretty solid in that regard.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Also Harsin's
In the Holgorsen “not likely to leave his present gig until he gets a head job” category.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
See, this is where I disagree. Unless you’re talking about a head job at a place like New Mexico, Harsin is going to have to step up as a coordinator in an AQ league to get a head coaching gig.
Now, he’s young, so he may be perfectly content to stay at Boise under Peterson for another 10 years, but I think if he’s open to leaving Boise, his next gig will be a coordinator somewhere else (as opposed to Holgorsen, who I agree is going to get a head coaching gig soon.)
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
by The Bengal on Dec 3, 2010 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not necessarily
Especially in a remote locale like Boise. You develop relationships in that region and then something comes open in the Mountain West or WAC and suddenly people have your name.
Historically pretty much every coach that has left Boise has left for either a head job or a big ol’ contract (like Tennessee gave the def. coordinator last year).
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Coaching for his Alma Mater aside
you don’t think LSU would be as attractive to Harsin as Tennessee was to Wilcox? Or able to offer a comparable bump? I agree that it’s unknown whether he would want to leave Boise, but assuming he is, I think LSU would be an attractive destination for him.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
Possibly
But I think he’d be a notch below the rest of this list. Remember, Wilcox is making north of 600k at UT — and I’m not sure LSU’s willing to pay that much somebody who’s only been a coordinator a few years. UT was turned down by a couple of guys before they got Wilcox. Plus their overall athletic budget is bigger than LSU.
Another factor is Derek Dooley probably knew Wilcox pretty well from coaching against him at Louisiana Tech. Tech and Boise are in the same league.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Also
If Norm Chow really does get fired by Neuheisel, I think he would be a strong candidate, particularly with Stephen Rivers committed to us. Have to think he would get strong encouragement from Philip Rivers to consider LSU.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
My guess is Norm Chow is headed towards retirement. And it’d be really tough to get him off of the West Coast at this point. That’s why I left him off the list.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Dec 3, 2010 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
They were working on a two year extension for him
which got “held up” in approvals. It’s since been released, but I can’t find any confirmation it’s been delivered to him or signed. I would assume if they were working on an extension, he’s indicated a willingness to keep working for at least a while.
As for the West Coast, that’s a consideration, but he has done stints in Tennessee and North Carolina, so he has come east in the past.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
There's also personality issues
And both his stints this side of the Mississippi were pretty short.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Agreed on the personality issues
He’s notorious for that. I think any interest would depend on whether Miles would feel they could have a productive relationship.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
Yeah
I just don’t see a big connection with the current staff.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
One additional thing to consider
is positional coaching duties. We need an OC with QB coaching background, no? If not, we’d have to further reshuffle the offensive staff. Therefore, I think a guy like Monken that’s a WR coach isn’t really a candidate as long as Gonzo is here.
Most Excellent Excellence O Excellent One!
Great stuff Billy, very good overview of the process and excellent list of candidates.
i agree Holgorsen is a long shot and I’m not sure he or Riley would be a good fit for Miles. I personally would love Leach and his acorns seem to be growing into some pretty productive trees but I’m not sure Miles is built that way.
In fact, most of your list fits the square peg mold. Kragthorpe is probably the most compatible.
Perhaps Miles would allow one of the AirRaiders to take full control if they can demonstrate dominance but Miles has clearly felt that he had to take over some calls at certain times and I don’t think he and Crowton have been on the same page for a long time.
Not sure its ever a good thing for your HC and OC to be going in different directions.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
A few thoughts...
1) There’s some really good reading on Kragthorpe on the blog “Smart Football.” Worth everyone’s time.
2) I’d love a Logan, Ver Steeg, Lee hire. Another name I like is Mike DeBord who coaches TEs for the Chicago Bears, and was OC at Michigan for several years (coached Henne all 4 years). Now whether or not he’s a huge Carr fan and thus opposed to Miles is in question.
3) To me, there are a few examples of systems which trump athletes (Mike Leach’s being one of them), but I’ll always say that talent is the biggest factor to producing outstanding results. Look through the annals of coaches who were hot names that burned out quick. A guy like Norm Chow was all the rage 5 years ago and now suddenly people think “oh, maybe he’s not great” because of what’s going on at UCLA. I think that’s silly. Sure, people regress at their jobs, but to go from a top-tier OC to completely terrible isn’t likely. Chow is a great coach but notoriously difficult to work with. He excelled at USC where Carroll just let him do his thing, while he ran the defense.
That’s why I tend not to put too much emphasis into the statistical outputs of a coach. Look at a guy like Steve Logan. He developed Jeff Blake, David Garrard and Matt Ryan. His offense his first year at BC was prolific. Ryan graduates, and BC was middle of the pack. 95% of coaches will rely upon their talent to produce and don’t have a system that is so brilliant that you can just “plug and play” with outstanding results (which we saw during Leach’s tenure… “insert x qb here” and you get 4,500 yards, 30+ TDs passing and a 2 year career in Canadian football before trying your hand at coaching. Typically in these cases, once the system gets solved by brilliant defensive minds, they tend to fade away. To me, that’s what’s most remarkable about Leach is that his offense continued to expand.
Here’s another interesting name who has a damaged reputation and is job hunting: Mark Mangino.
To me, there are a few examples of systems which trump athletes (Mike Leach’s being one of them)
Crowton’s being another…
::RIMSHOT::
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
by LSU Jonno on Dec 3, 2010 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
LOL
I wouldn’t be the only member of the delusional optimism camp that thought Crowton should move on.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
I know - I was just taking the opportunity to haze a new DO member
(I’m not going to shed a tear if CLM lets the Crow fly)
I tried to see beyond the fabled ‘Crowton dive pattern’, I really did but the Oregonian duck prophecy has been so dead on it isn’t funny.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Mark Mangino
I don’t see him and the rest of this staff meshing, personality wise.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Fixed
I don’t see him and the rest of thisstaffuniverse meshing, personality wise.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
You see, guys...
What I’m doing here, is naming every possible candidate. That way, whoever we hire, I can say… “Called it.”
In that case
you forgot Charlie Weis.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
LOL
Would love to see the debate if that were announced.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
If we hired Fat Charlie or Skinny Mark would we have to
seek legislative approval for the increase to the food service budget for the FB Program?
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Debord was the guy...
along with Ron English that the MI faithful feared that Lloyd was setting up as his replacement. Deserved or not he’s Michigan’s Gary Crowton if you get my drift. Blamed (probably unfairly) for the decline at Michigan in the later years of the Carr era. He also fiercely loyal to Carr. Just don’t see that happening.
Does anyone have a realistic feel
for how much money the athletic department can throw out? How much are we paying Crowton?
He made 400k this season
And it bumps to 500 next season. So somewhere in that range, most likely. Depending on what’s needed I suppose.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
thanks
and is there still a buyout for Crowton? It was rumored to be $800,000 last year. True? Why the heck did we have a buyout for the OC?
Well in general
Every coaches’ deal has a buyout. I mean the contract’s guaranteed, so if its not terminated for cause by the employer, the balance is generally owed. When you talk about a buyout clause the way we traditionally think of it, its something specifically negotiated so that the school doesn’t owe that entire amount in the case they want to get rid of the guy.
But you rarely see one of those clauses with an assistant coach.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
If the 107th ranked passing offense in the country isn't "good cause" then what the hell is
I’m joking, of course (a little) but you wonder why schools don’t include clauses allowing them to cancel the contract, at their own discretion,if certain minimum benchmarks aren’t met.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Dec 3, 2010 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
Good point
I mean there sure as hell are incentives for doing well…
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
that's incredibly depressing
maybe i can pull one of these type contracts later in my management career.
somehow i feel if i had $500k guaranteed coming to me next year, i might not be terribly inclined to put forth much effort, regardless of being ranked in the bottom quarter of my peers. organizations that allow such things generally don’t do too well.
with our next OC can we get a clause in the contract that allows him to be fired “for cause” if he sucks this badly? Some kind of metric that compares incoming recruiting classes to offensive production?
I.e, if your incoming offensive recruiting class is in the top twenty-five percent of the nation each year, your offensive production better not be in the bottom twenty-five percent year after year – if so, we’ll terminate you with no money owed – but we will pay for the moving trucks that’ll show up at your house!!
Just add in that the o needs to avg 35/game
If our stud frosh db’s keep developing, nobody else will be able to keep up. Bring on 2 more crystal trophies – at least!!
by Kellertigerfan on Dec 3, 2010 6:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Okay, I get it that people don't like Crowton
But please:
somehow i feel if i had $500k guaranteed coming to me next year, i might not be terribly inclined to put forth much effort, regardless of being ranked in the bottom quarter of my peers. organizations that allow such things generally don’t do too well.
We defeat our own arguments with these types of extreme statements. Crowton’s offenses have been failing for a number of reasons, but its not because the guy is just collecting a check.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Agreed...its because he is not up to job, plain and simple.
If anything, i think the guy “works” too hard. He takes solid base talent and schemes and “works” them to the point no one understands what the hell is going on – even the HC. If he just reused the same plays from 2007 over and over with a set pattern of run-run-pass our talent would probably shine a bit brighter.
While our offense might not be statistically better in that case, I think there would be much less discord in the ranks as people just get tired of seeing a cluster-F every (almost, sorry) the O takes the field.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Dec 4, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
my bad on my choice of medium to try and convey some tongue in cheek sarcasm
obviously i don’t think he’s just been sitting around twirling his thumbs, counting his money, all the while secretly laughing at the position he’s got LSU in.
i should have been more clear. i’m just saying its a very bad situation and one that i hope we learn from. although i’m sure you can shed some light on this – i’d imagine we’re not gonna get any coach to come here if we put a “fire for cause for sucking” clause in the next OC’s contract.
We had four good halves of offensive production this year and he made $400k. It’s unfortunate.
Borges and Kragthorpe aren’t the type of hires that make fans ooh and aah, but I liken them to the Chavis hire on defense
Chavis is well known for years as one of he best DCs in CFB, hands down. You comparing Borges and Kragthorpe to Chavis is hysterically flawed.
Chavis was knocked...
as an old washed out DC when LSU hired him by the guys who wanted a flashy hire, like the legendary Wil Muschamp. Billy is right about Borges about Kragthorpe, and the “it” OC’s are a huge risk. There were 2 dozen of those 10 years ago that you can’t name today. Borges and Kragthorpe will be able to coach what we’ve got here and have coming, and we have a lot. We won’t have to install some sort of new system that may or may not fit our players or might be out of fashion by 2012 when the new fad comes in. Then you have to retool again. We have a real chance to make some noise in the next few years and risking it on some flashy system that worked in the WAC is not the way to go. You want somebody who has been in the BCS before and knows what the SEC is about.
I could care less about exciting the fan base, or anybody else, with the hire. Few were excited about Chavis. I want someone who can absolutely take our players and make a competent offense out of it. There are a lot of those guys among the names Billy mentioned. Our current guy evidently can’t.
NO ONE
was excited about Chizik except Auburn haters like me and he’s proven the administration there to be smarter than they looked.
I think you should wait and see how he does without Malzahn before you make a statement like that...
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Chavis had the 4th ranked defense in the country in 2008
Alongside an offense that rivaled ours last year for inefficiency; 116th total offense and 110th scoring. I know a lot of people latched onto the tag Third and Chavis, but I think the majority of fans saw it as a slam dunk hire. Borges and Kragthorpe might be competent OCs, but they’re not among the top ten OCs in the country as Chavis is (among DCs).
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
Borges and Kragthorpe
Have been well regarded as offensive coaches for a decade or more. I can remember seeing Borges on the “hot coordinator” lists in the late 90s when his offenses were tearing things up at UCLA.
Additionally, my analogy was referring to their status as being respected for coaching sound fundamentals, which is pretty much the biggest thing Chavis is known for as a defensive coach. So actually, no, not a flawed analogy. Glad to make you laugh though.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
my analogy was referring to their status as being respected for coaching sound fundamentals
Which is precisely why they are the kind of OC we should be looking for.
Plus, I don’t want this to be a stepping stone hire – If we get a quality guy here who is not looking to grab the next rung on the ladder and he meshes well with CLM’s philosophy we will have an extremely stable coaching staff and I could see LSU putting in another 10+ year run at the top, while grooming one of the younger guys (like a Billy G) to do it the right way once these guys all ride off into the sunset with three or four more NCs
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Guys like Chavis (who aren't looking to move up) are pretty rare.
If our new OC isn’t looking at the LSU job as a stepping stone for something else…It’s probably because he isn’t that good.
I understand what you are saying, and I think everybody WANTS that, it’s just impossible to accomplish.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
I think Kragthorpe fits the bill of someone that would be
content with a Coordinating position at an elite school that pays top flight money, etc…
I also don’t think that means they aren’t good at what they do. And I would reject the notion that everyone not job hoping isn’t good enough to job hop; Chavis isn’t job hoping because he is content doing what he does, kinda like Monte Kiffin – who probably wishes he hadn’t gotten sucked into his Son’s ambitions.
Kragthorpe has also been a HC and it didn’t work out. Maybe he realized what he’s good at or maybe he would be content just making more than a lot of HC gigs pay without the headache, that doesn’t mean he is not good.
FTR, I’m not advocating Kragthorpe though it probably sounds that way, I’m just not enamored with the ‘fresh’ hot up and comers like most and I don’t think all the AirRaid guys (who seem to be abundant at the moment) are the best fit.
I’d prefer a fundamentally sound offensive minded coach that can mesh well with the Hat who will be here for a while.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
No, I don't mind the stepping stone situation
Though you’d want to avoid it being somebody who may be gone after just one year or something.
I’m not saying Krags or Borges would be good for that reason either. I just think they’re good fits that would have a good shot at making quick progress. And again, I don’t think the offense needs more razzle-dazzle. It needs to get back to basics.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Dec 4, 2010 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
I don’t think the offense needs more razzle-dazzle. It needs to get back to basics.
Again, we are totally on the same page here.
And I’m not saying we don’t hire someone if there is a chance he might take another job down the road, I just like stability in the coaching staff.
To me a fundamentally sound ‘fit’ for meshing with the Hat is priority number one, then see what we’ve got from there…
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
They aren't that rare..
They are career coordinators. Guys that have reached the ceiling of their perceived potential and are content to coordinate (Norm Chow, Monte Kiffin, John Chavis, etc.). All three of those guys are brilliant coaches who have never been head coaches, and not because they aren’t good.
Hasn't Oregon
Had the same running backs coach for 10+ years as well?
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Dana Holgorsen might be off the board to Florida, uggh!
Billy, you hear anything on this.
He’s probably a good fit with Urban. Scary thought once they get it working.
Go get us a good one Les!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Definitely doesn't jive with the rumors
Of Brantley’s departure. That’d leave them with 2 run-first QB’s in Burton and Reed.
Doesn’t sound all that likely to me. Now, Texas may go after Holgorsen, and there’s a school that can match checkbooks with Mr. Pickens…
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Heard this rumor too...
If it is true, then Les should be roundly criticized for failing to act.
Dana is a bright mind and an up and coming guy, and UF has a strong history of not paying out assistants very well. We could easily outdo anything they try to come up with financially.
Ultimately though, I don’t think this is true.
I don't know about the criticism part, don't know the details or connections...
I just never thought DH was a posibility here for a couple of reasons, though I wouldn’t turn him down.
It’s also not like Florida is Vandy or someone if it comes to attracting/paying coaches.
Oh well, just something I heard a ‘could be happening’ on…
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Florida does have a lot of money
And they always kept Charlie Strong and their defensive staff very well compensated. If they wanted to spend it, they can outbid most of the SEC.
But Holgorsen would be a change in philosophy for Meyer. His offense is much more run-oriented.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Holgorsen
But Holgorsen would be a change in philosophy for Meyer. His offense is much more run-oriented.
Holgorsen is pass first, no doubt, but Oklahoma State ranks 29th in rushing offense this year at 182 ypg. There’s an interview of Holgorsen somewhereout there where he talks about how he and Leach had friendly disagreements about taking the run game when the defense was giving it. Houston only ranked 83rd in rushing last year, but Sumlin is also a Leach student. Holgorsen seems to have a much more balanced philosophy than most of the Air Raid guys, which is why he’s about the only one of Leach’s/Mumme’s disciples I would like to see at LSU.
The good news is that I’m still convinced he’s going to get a head coaching gig somewhere this off season, so he’s unlikely to end up at Florida.
LSU - "...the defense you want to be and your girl wants to be with."
Yeah but for Hologorsen
The spread-option is a small part of the run game. For Meyer it’s a much more central tenant he would be really going away from if this is true.
But that’s again, IF.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Dec 6, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
Position coaches
It’s important which positions some of these guys coach too … a guy like David Shaw is all but eliminated from contention he’s an RB coach and Frank Wilson isn’t going anywhere. Ditto Paul Petrino who coaches WRs.
Petrino's coached QB's at other stops
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Jan 12, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
Same with some of these other guys
Plus you learn things working with other coaches. I’m sure Todd Monken knows a whole lot more about coaching all sides of the passing game from working with Dirk Koetter and Mike Shula.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Jan 12, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
please, pretty please
can we get a QB coach
My most popular theory was
Gonzales promoted with Kragthorpe brought on as QB coach — but the Tulsa opening may be the wrench in that plan.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Jan 12, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
and maybe I'm crazy, but it seems to me that the athletes we most often get
are best fit for a pro-style, I formation offense. We get big – huge offensive lineman, big backs and big tall wide receivers. Sure we have fast shifty guys, but LA recruits seem to really be known as big OLmen and big strong running backs. I’d love to have someone develop an offense that goes with our talent.
Or, barring that, an offense that sticks with one or two things and focuses on them.
It definitely seems to be the sort of talent lining up in this class
But a few years ago with Shepard, Jarrett Fobbs (Trovon Reed), etc…, I actually thought it was signaling more of a move towards the spread.
But such is the cycle of recruiting I suppose. If Louisiana starts producing big, pro-set personnel, LSU has to adjust to that.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Jan 12, 2011 11:33 AM CST up reply actions


























