Some Thoughts On Kragthorpe
First of all, it shouldn't come as a surprise that Les Miles is going to do things his way. Whether you like it or not, Les is going to make what he feels is the best decision and will not feel pressured by the often clamorous voices of the media/fanbase/message boards to make a decision. After Miles elected to spurn Michigan and stay at LSU, he delivered a self-assured press conference that I think genuinely excited a majority of the fanbase. For the (maybe) first time, it really seemed like Miles felt confident that this was his job... his program...
Days later, the program was purged of it's biggest oppressor, and Miles was charged with the duty of finding a suitable replacement. Names abounded, speculation persisted and today, we seem to have reached a conclusion that will likely leave most fans lukewarm at best. But, as my cohort Poseur often says, you don't need to win the press conference... win the hire. So is Kragthorpe a good hire? And what does this mean for the LSU offense? More after the jump...
First off, this isn't the awe-inspiring, melt-your-face-off, decided-strategic-advantage, type of hire.But it gives us a clearer picture of the type of coaches Miles seeks to surround himself with: experienced ones. If there's a decidedly great thing about Kragthorpe, it's that he is experienced. Now, what type of experience? First, let's take a look at his offensive philosophy (as best as I can tell).Kragthorpe brings a pro-style mentality, which I'm not sure anyone can truly define. Look at Wikipedia's weak ass entry on it. So... you say the pro-style offense is what the pro's do? Cheeky! The common assumption is that pro-style equals downhill running and vertical passing. I don't think that's too far off. Kragthorpe has typically operated an offense with a pocket passer that features an emphasis on the running game (something that should compliment LSU's talent quite well).
Finding video of Kragthorpe's offenses isn't exactly easy. Here's a clip from 2000 at Texas A&M:
TOOOOMBS (via AgRyan04)
Another vintage Kragthorpe montage:
1998 Big 12 Championship (via AgRyan04)
If his LSU offense is anything like his 1998-2000 A&M offense, it will feature a good bit of I-Formation, play action and power football. His offense changed during his tenure at Tulsa, however, where he featured more shotgun looks, and in his first two years, utilized a mobile QB (James Killian) who put up 2,200 yards passing and 800 yards rushing in Kragthorpe's first year.
A blogger much more knowledgeable than I took some time to write a couple of informative pieces about Kragthorpe during his Louisville stint:
Discussing him taking over OC duties in his final year.
Discussing Kragthorpe's principles.
There's a couple of major takeaways for me from these pieces.
A) Kragthorpe is a "concepts" guy at heart.
A well thought out passing game does not need a lot of plays, just a set of them that "fit together" -- hence Kragthorpe's emphasis on the need to be "concise."
This is what I like to see. The primary issue with Crowton's offense (as far as I can tell) is the lack of true concepts. Crowton can design nice plays, but to what end? Oftentimes, it didn't seem as if we were aiming to accomplish a goal so much as just trying to give a defense so many different looks we would confuse them into mistakes allowing our offense to move. Kragthorpe's philosophies should be more "stripped down."
When Crowton was first hired, there was a lot of talk about the "option routes" in his offense. Essentially, the QB and WR would read the coverage, and that would dictate the type and distance of the routes being run. It's a great idea that has been successful, but also demands a lot from players in terms of both communication and execution (perhaps more than the typical amateur athlete can handle). I could be wrong, but Kragthorpe's offense seems to eschew this for the idea of a total play concept. A route won't be altered pre-snap based on the coverage look shown, but can be tinkered with on the sidelines if the "concept" is proving to not be working.
In the grand scheme of things, I think this will make pre-snap QB reads more important, but also simpler.
B) Kragthorpe has an idea of what he wants to do.
The past several years the LSU offense simply got too big. Did we want to be a spread option team with Jordan Jefferson? Did we want to run an I-Formation? Zone rushing? Spread passing? We had a little bit of it all. Multiple formations are one thing, but when each formation leads to a different style of blocking and different reads it begins to turn into a sloppy mess.
There's likely more knowledgeable posters than me on this subject, and please feel free to chime in with your thoughts.
Finally, I did a little bit of digging on his offenses and here's a rough statistical breakdown. I didn't include Louisville, which everyone is well aware was an abject failure. His offense terribly declined in his time there, but if you take a little time to do some reading, there were a lot of things going against him at Louisville (multiple bad eggs, being forced to retain staff members he didn't want, etc.). Not that it should just be forgotten, but it also shouldn't be the only thing we use to judge his qualifications. It's a shame that a coach's failures are often taken as their "true" identity and successes immediately dismissed as happenstance. Fans remember failures more than successes.
Here's the broad strokes of what I see from his offenses:
1) Ground based attack.
Typically features a very good run game, with an emphasis on balance, perhaps leaning slightly towards the run.
2) Passing offense improvement.
At both A&M and Tulsa, the production of his passing offenses improved. Not only did he take each offense to more balance with more passing attempts, he either kept the rate stats the same or improved them.
3) QB improvement
Obviously this ties to the above point, but his quarterbacks (and he didn't really work with anyone noteworthy) generally improved their completion percentage while also either maintaining or improving their yards per attempt.
Though he may not be the sexy hire many fans will clamor for, Kragthorpe has a few feathers in his cap still. He coached NFL QB Matt Hasselbeck for one year at Boston College. He was the QB for the Buffalo Bills during what was arguably Drew Bledsoe's best season. During his tenure at A&M, he coached two QB (Stewart and Farris) to two of the most prolific QB seasons in A&M history (this has now been offset).He's well-respected for his ability to develop quarterbacks.
Essentially, Kragthorpe is a coach's coach. He's worked with bright NFL guys like Kevin Gilbride and Dan Henning (who are often loved by coaches and hated by fans), and well-respected in coaching circles. Further, his ties to Texas will be beneficial to re-establishing our recruiting connections there, which have slowed down since the departure of Larry Porter. He's still young, and if I had to guess, hungry to right his reputation. Finally, Kragthorpe is a stand-up guy, which some say doesn't matter as long as you can coach football, but I think we see that Miles values men of high character.
Things set up nicely for Kragthorpe in 2011, where we return 4/5 of our offensive line, two QBs and are loaded with skill position talent. If the LSU offense improves 30 spots as they did this year (which wouldn't be entirely surprising), he'll likely be a folk hero.
Is Kragthorpe the rug that really ties the room together? I'm not sure, but there's definitely people already pissing all over it.
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Say what you will about the tenants of the spread option offense...
…at least it’s an ethos.
In the history of college football, no player, no coach, no guru, compares with [Les] Miles’s masterful incorporation of applied chaos theory and time relativity into strategic game planning. Simply put, the man is on another level. A level many don’t or can’t understand. Genius.
Not gonna lie
The Humanoids occasionally make me channel my inner Walter.
Has the whole world gone crazy?
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Jan 20, 2011 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
I like most of this,
but I would like to how the perennially misused Mr. Russell Shepard fits into this system.
I really feel bad for you all

H/T to whoever posted this on edsbs and RBR
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
The last ex-Louisville coach we hired
Is doing a pretty good job.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Jan 20, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
And Kragthorpe was the best thing to happen to Kentucky football in 20 years...
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
Yeah, Louisville just had an amazing tradition
Before he got there…
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Jan 20, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
To expand on my meh comment in the other thread
What bothers me about Kragthorpe is that in 10 seasons as OC or Head Coach (A&M, Tulsa, Louisville), his offenses only broke into the top 40 three times. And one of those was the inherited offense from Petrino. It seems he does develop QBs, but the overall results are a collective meh.
It’s Miles’ call and he has to surround himself with coaches he’s comfortable with, but this is no Chavis hire. Chavis consistently put out Top 10 defenses in the SEC before he came here (his 2008 defense was 3rd in the country). He was a home run hire by any reasonable standard. An OC whose offenses’ average ranking is 55th is an average hire by that same reasonable standard.
I know there will be some improvement in the offense just by having the youth grow up and having a single offensive philosophy. I know that anything would be an improvement over Crowton’s grab bag of an offense. I hope that Kragthorpe surprises me and gets this offense humming at a level commensurate with the talent. I’m just not as confident that he’s the guy to do that as Paul, Billy and Poseur are.
I’ll wait to see and keep my fingers crossed.
You don't consider getting Tulsa into the top 40 on offense
A tough thing to do?
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Jan 20, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
Considering that the four years since he was there
Tulsa was #1, #1, #35, and #5 in Total Offense, his average offensive ranking of 47th while there doesn’t blow me away. The offense did improve to 39th and 24th his last two years, but I still think he’s an average hire at this point in time.
That said, if he can get this offense consistently in the top 40, we should be a contender as long as Chavis and Robinson continue to work their magic.
Running a pro-style system with Tulsa talent
Is a wee bit harder to do than running Gus Malzahn’s hurry-up. Nevermind that Malzahn and Todd Graham had Kragthorpe’s foundation to build on. Kragthorpe inherited a 2-9 team that hadn’t been to a bowl in 10 or so years.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Jan 20, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
I understand your sentiments...
And I agree, looking at the rankings doesn’t make me giddy.
Fuente was the guy I really wanted. But I don’t think Kragthorpe is a terrible hire, and I can see why Les did it.
Lots of glass half empty folks, apparently
Good write-up Paul. While I myself am not blown away, I am cautiously optimistic for a couple reasons. First: It’s not Gary Crowton. Second: You had me at “good QB coach.”
This is the way I see it, and granted I am not an X’s and O’s guru. But here’s my thinking. LSU has gobs of talent. It’s running out of our freakin’ ears. I think Crowton was a mad scientist of sorts, but that it just didn’t translate to college kids with so much on their plate. A simpler system should be good because I believe athletes of our caliber doing a few things well will be much better than doing a lot of things sloppy. This is not the NFL, where talent is relatively equal and gameplan and scheme is king. This is college, where mismatches happen every game, and if hammered enough, you can drive an opponent to their knees (think: old school Spurrier). This comes from exploiting your advantages consistently and in a way easy enough to be efficiently executed.
So, back to the QB coach thing. We’ve got Frank Wilson now, who I thought did a bang up job as RB coach this year. We’ve got Gonzo, who was responsible for several great UF receivers and though I know some LSU fans ready to label him a dud for this year, let’s don’t forget our QB play, or that he at least got two monster performances from the perennially under-achieving Toliver. I think he’s going to prove to be an excellent WR coach. I don’t know what kind of position coaches Krag had at the Ville, but all he has to do at LSU is coach a QB and call a good, simple game. From what I read, he can coach QB and should be able to call a good game. I don’t know why the UL offense tanked so badly, but he won’t have as much responsibility here, and the position coaches on our staff should help his cause quite a bit.
Now…..gimme some news about a new OL coach, and I’ll start my weekend early……
GREAT hire
period
Krag is a terrific QB coach and a great offensive mind.
More importantly, he is a great person, and a player’s coach.
This is good to hear
I think the opinion’s of A & M fans will be more relevant than Louisville fans in this case. Primarily because he had the same job at A & M he has now, but also because their program has a lot more similarities to ours than Louisville.
he was going to be our WR coach again
and help Sherman run the offense before family concerns/health issue with his wife caused him to take the 2010 season off
As for what type off offense he’ll run, we were just moving to his ideal attack when the Buffalo Bills hired him as QB coach after the 2000 season. Ideally, I believe he’d favor a power running game with a passing game that is concept-based. You’re not going to out-formation people, you’re going to out-package them, i.e. you’re going to run a lot of plays from one formation or personnel grouping, so if they stop on concept in the play, he will pick on the other two options they’ve left open. I think you’ll see a lot of 11, 12, 20 and 21 personnel with him, depending on how versatile your FB is.
The 1998 Big 12 Championship Game video above is a good example; K-State never adjusted to cover Parker, so we kept going to him in the flats time and time again, and ultimately we beat them with it.
Ahh sticking with what works
what a novel concept.
Seriously
This statement
The 1998 Big 12 Championship Game video above is a good example; K-State never adjusted to cover Parker, so we kept going to him in the flats time and time again, and ultimately we beat them with it.
excites me more than anything else I’ve read on Krags.
We can probably go multiple FB types
And in the past, Miles (or Crowton?) has used 2 HB sets with one lined up at FB (Scott, Ridley, Ware, etc.).
This interests me very much especially as a lot of defensive schemes inside the 20 completely forego covering the FB, esp. at the goal line.
But your description of the overall concept of his offense is certainly encouraging.
I must create my belief system lest I be enslaved by another - Thomas Paine
by Curtis Bleaux on Jan 21, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
RBR comment
Someone compared Krags to Robinson, which I think is actually pretty fair. Sometimes people aren’t made to be head coaches. To use an LSU example, Mike Archer was a lousy head coach, but has since had a very nice career as a DC. I think anyone who fails to hire Archer because of his stint as a HC is a moron. We’re not hiring Krags to be the head coach and run the program. If we were, I’d be alarmed. We’re hiring him to be the OC, and I think that’s a job he knows how to do, and is motivated to get his reputation back.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
Second that.
What I’ve read of the guy, excluding his stint at UL, says that he will be a solid hire for us at OC. Yeah, he’s not some hotshot up-and-coming offensive guru like Fuente, but I think Kragthorpe will mesh better with the rest of the staff we have in place. That in itself makes him a good hire.
the list of good coordinators who made bad HCs is long
Plenty of football minded people have called this a good hire. Most of the people slagging it are either our SEC west brethren (who still call Miles a crappy coach and are honor bound to trash us) or Louisville folks (can’t say I blame them). It is basically impossible to extrapolate a coach’s tenure from one place to another (hence the long list of failed HCs who are good coordinators) so anybody predicting anything is simply guessing.
Plus, we averaged 155 ypg in the air in 2010 and we still finished in the top ten. How hard could it be to improve on those numbers? Chris Brown’s articles give me a good feeling too. It’s as if he was prophesizing solving some of our offensive problems when he spoke of simplifying things and making an offense conceptual (eg, Mike Leach and the Air Raid; West Coast; etc). That is what we’ve been clamoring for over Crowton’s grab bag of formations and philosophies.
Finally, this is one of the arguments that I hate to see but I don’t think Miles would have hired him if he wasn’t convinced Krags was the man for the job. Miles has the security to get the guy he wants as Paul points out. I know of no biographical connection between Miles and Krags so, presumably, Miles hires him because he puts us in the best position to win. So, I am certainly going to be hopeful until I see otherwise.
Too early for a nickname? Krag Mava is he’s good? Kragtastic if he’d bad?
by haveagreatday on Jan 20, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
Ray Rhodes is the example I always use.
Terrific coordinator. Awful head coach. Some guys are just natural #2s.
I must create my belief system lest I be enslaved by another - Thomas Paine
by Curtis Bleaux on Jan 20, 2011 7:18 PM CST up reply actions
KRAG1N1 virus?
Let’s just adopt the EDSBS meme as our own.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
They look at it as a disease we now have
I look at it as, Les Miles acquiring a biological agent.
They should be afraid.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Jan 20, 2011 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
Kragheads, it is
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
by Poseur on Jan 20, 2011 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought about that. It's hilarious and well engrained but's it's also relentlessly bleak and negative
harkens images of congested, gray colored pigs. Doesn’t fit in with our ethos, either. No, we need a clean break from the past. Let’s mold Krags into our own image.
by haveagreatday on Jan 20, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
Some more interesting tidbits...
He’s obviously a bright guy. Found these comments from his old Tulsa bio to be illuminating:
Kragthorpe’s experience around football goes much deeper than the 15 years he has been a coach. His father, Dave, was coaching since Steve was a youngster, serving assistant coaching stints at Montana, South Dakota State and BYU. Following 10 years at BYU, the elder Kragthorpe was the head coach at Idaho State for three years (1980-82), taking a team that had lost 15 straight games to champions of NCAA Division I-AA in just his second season. After two years as athletics director at Utah State, the elder Kragthorpe returned to the sidelines and spent six years (1985-90) as the head coach at Oregon State.
The younger Kragthorpe’s football philosophy is to be wide-open, aggressive and try to dictate the tempo in all phases of the game. His offensive mentality goes back to Brigham Young University of the 1970’s, but can even be traced to The University of Tulsa.
“It’s funny how football comes full circle. In 1970, my dad was hired at BYU by a former Golden Hurricane great, Tommy Hudspeth,” said Kragthorpe. "In 1973, when BYU decided to throw the football to be successful The University of Tulsa was one of the places they came to study the passing game that had been developed under Coach Glenn Dobbs and at that time with F.A. Dry.
“The roots of Tulsa’s offense in 2003 can ultimately be traced back to the Tulsa offenses of the 1960s and early ’70s,” added Kragthorpe.
OK, I'll ask the difficult question...
Can Kragz read a clock?
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Interest Group Influence
Miles must have felt some pressure to appoint a Mormon to take the seat vacated by Justice Crowton.
by Johnny Hutchinson on Jan 20, 2011 5:13 PM CST reply actions
Run downhill...
and throw downfield. It will be refreshing not to see the LSU offense racing the defense to the sidelines.
We’ve seen what Miles wants to do with the run. The pass game Kragthorpe uses is more of a fixed route downfield game than Crowton’s crossing option routes that defenders seemed to like so much. I think that Miles will get what he wants out of this hire, somebody who can implement what he wants to do and add a bit more of a passing flavor without going spread too much. Les was a 75-25 run-pass OC under Simmons in his stint as an OC at OSU. He was fairly balance but still favored the run as an HC with Gundy as OC. I think that’s where he was comfortable and is looking to return.
The offense will improve but great improvement will depend on what SK can do with the QB’s. Based on his experience and what Crowton did I’m pretty happy with this hire.
by pttigris on Jan 20, 2011 6:25 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Considering what Kragthorpe did with....
the Brohms & Stefan LaFors at Louisville, put me in the cautiously optimistic, sligt lean to the optimistic, hiring camp.
From what I remember when he was L’ville’s OC, he was pass first w/o abandoning the run game (like Leach). I definitely like the fact his passing game seems to be more vertically oriented. I’m a proponent of taking a shot deep once a quarter. It’s not about hitting them IMO, it’s about showing that you might. that was a big cvomplaint of mine with Crowton- so what if it is incomplete or gets intercepted, chuck that effer deep once in awhile. It’d be better to make the guy go 80 yds for an INT instead of 25-35 on a horrible screen toss (e.g. Jarrety Lee’s pick six against Auburn 2 yrs. ago [pukes, gags on a 2nd puke, swallows, fights through, washes mouth out with beer)
Is it the best hire we could get? Probably not. But can he be successful? That’s all I give a damn about. I would also like to think that the offense having a better idea of a purpose or (shudder to use a Rantphrase) more consistent identity should make the offense more potent because…. well, because it can’t really get much worse with the natural talent we have, could it?
In summation, I think we’ll be fine with Kragthorpe, even with that dumb graph above, if you take it at face value, it means we’ll have 5 good yrs. before the O tanks. I like my chances in those 5 years.
I must create my belief system lest I be enslaved by another - Thomas Paine
And the bad years...
still rank above 2 of the last 3 with Crowton! Means it’d still be an IMPROVEMENT. BOOM, Graph
I must create my belief system lest I be enslaved by another - Thomas Paine
by Curtis Bleaux on Jan 20, 2011 7:33 PM CST up reply actions
I think you got the years mixed up
Krags didn’t have any good years as the graph would suggest. The good years were under Petrino.
Upon further review looks like 2 years.
‘07 & ’08. Didn’t have any good years is a false statement. Esp. when the graph isn’t the whole dataset, i.e. his entire career.
Stats in a vacuum mean nothing, even more so when they’re cherrypicked. Even so, all 3 of his “bad” years still rank ahead of Crowton’s last 2 in terms of total offensive yardage. Again, graph taken at face value would be “improvement.”
I must create my belief system lest I be enslaved by another - Thomas Paine
by Curtis Bleaux on Jan 21, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
Food for thought
According to rivals database, in 2007 LSU was the 20th ranked offense in ypg and 12th ranked in ppg. In 2003 they were 26th and 14th respectively. Not sure Krag can get us that high, but not sure he can’t either.
Obviously those stats mean jack squat for the upcoming seasons, but may be somewhat valid measuring stick of where we need to be shooting for. Worth noting the defensive lines off those teams were a lot filthier than anything I forsee with the current crop, and makes me think the O needs to try a little harder, since I don’t see the D being AS good.
RC Slocum on Kragthorpe:
Slocum said Thursday that Kragthorpe was one of the best offensive minds he had on his staff in his 14-year A&M stint.
"Les couldn’t have done better than Steve," Slocum said. "I think the world of him as a person and as a coach."
THIS TIME, KRAGTHORPE HAS A CHANCE
Hopefully, we’ll all give him one
From Sporting News: http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-01-20/former-louisville-coach-kragthorpe-to-run-lsu-offense
Former Louisville coach Kragthorpe to run LSU offense
PUBLISHED Thursday, Jan 20, 2011 at 4:12 pm EST
At least this time, Steve Kragthorpe has a chance.
Kragthorpe, the new LSU offensive coordinator, saw his legacy defined from 2007-09, when he failed to lift Louisville from Top 10-worthy to title-caliber.
New offensive coordinator Steve Kragthorpe arrives with the Bayou Bengals an SEC power and promises to kick their attack to championship caliber.
He faces a similar challenge with the Tigers: Take a pretty good offense and lift it, especially in the passing game, to one proficient enough to reach the BCS National Championship Game.
There’s nothing similar, though, about the circumstances of the gigs.
Louisville officials say Bobby Petrino, Kragthrope’s predecessor, left the Cardinals program a wasteland. Poor recruiting left little talent, and most of the great players didn’t stay, unable to handle Kragthorpe’s more stringent discipline. Three years of sub-.500 football and Big East irrelevance followed; soon, Kragthorpe couldn’t stay, either.
LSU in 2011, meanwhile, is humming. Coach Les Miles turned down Michigan and defensive coordinator John Chavis said no to Texas job offers, which has bolstered the program. Another banner recruiting class, highlighted by junior college quarterback Zach Mettenberger, keeps the Tigers an SEC beast.
The Tigers enter the spring with a national contender’s look — Sporting News colleague Matt Hayes has the Tigers as his preseason No. 1. If Kragthorpe, a quarterback guru, can lift the offense, LSU can loom the most dangerous team in the land. That’s a legacy both players and coach want for their time in purple and gold.
by Deluded on Jan 21, 2011 10:31 AM CST reply actions 1 recs

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