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More Kragthorpe Thoughts: Five Questions with Chris Brown

As the Steve Kragthorpe hire continues to be dissected, I decided to seek out the opinion of one of the interwebz' foremost X and O football minds, Chris Brown of Smart Football. He was nice enough to answer some questions for us:

*Ed. Note: Links included explaining some of the concepts to which Chris is referring.

1. You've often spoke about a team's "offense" being more than just a playbook, but an identity. A core group of plays or concepts that everything else stems from. Here at ATVS we've all been in agreement that such an identity has been missing from the LSU offense in recent years. Do you agree with that assessment?

Chris: I think that's probably right. Now, in his own mind, every man on earth is the best lover and playcaller on planet earth, and I'll let you guys figure out which one of those Crowton brings to mind. But I think it's accurate to say that LSU has been pretty "grab bag," in that the variety of looks, plays, and formations they use have tended to add up to less than the sum of their parts, especially once you factor in all the high profile recruits. Whether you can blame Crowton for this is an unanswerable question, but my personal preference has always been to have something to hang your hat on -- something you are good at and can go back to and run against anybody.

2. Do you think Steve Kragthorpe can fill that prescription?

Star-divide

Chris: He has the capability to. I think he learned some lessons at Louisville, and he has experience both in college and the pros so while he's going to have a particular style and has been exposed to lots of ideas, I don't expect him to show up with a 700 page "I'm smarter than the other guy" playbook. The Louisville experience is not what anyone wanted, but it has the potential to be a positive in that he may have learned from it. (Many of the best coaches, Bill Belichick being Exhibit A, succeeded later because they had once failed somewhere.)

3. What style of offense can we expect from Kragthorpe, based on his history?

Chris: I'd expect a pro-style offense, with lots of two-back and one-back sets, multiple formations, with zone and power runs and dropback and playaction passes. Now, this isn't to say he couldn't include some spread elements, like the zone read and so on, but I don't see that as being his focus. And I imagine Miles wanted someone with pro-style experience, as much for recruiting as anything else. I also would expect fewer gadgets and funky looks than Crowton. If it works it will be great, but it probably has the potential to be labeled "predictable" (at least superficially) if the offense struggles.

4. What are some of the basic concepts you've seen from his previous offenses?

Chris: I primarily watched him at Louisville, and one of his issues is he tried to keep a lot of Bobby Petrino's playbook while overlaying some new ideas and delegating playcalling duties. The result was a more mishmash approach than I think he would have liked. My guess will be that he'll run the stuff he tried later at Louisville and used with the Buffalo Bills and at Tulsa, which are your major pass concepts like smash, curl/flat, and various zone flood routes, with lots of play-action designed to throw the ball on deep crosses and square-in and post routes to the outside receivers.

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A few zone-flood concepts from different sets.

via assets.sbnation.com


The big question to me will be what his run game looks like. I'd expect zone runs with your typical "power" or "gap" runs, like the "Power O" play and the "Counter." If he can get these established you'll see lots of exciting play-action; if he can't things will probably grind to a halt a bit. I don't remember him using a lot of fancy screens or bootleg or other action passes. But that may have been based on the quarterbacks he has had.

5. Do those concepts mesh with the spread-style attack LSU has been trying to run the last few years, or are we looking at a radical change?

Chris: One of the problems with Crowton's approach is I'm not sure I would have called it a spread. I don't think it will be a crazy transition, like from a Rich Rodriguez spread-to-run offense to pro-style or vice versa, but I think it's hard for any outsider to tell because we don't know how the practices were set up or the reads went. Crowton had been an NFL coach and I'd imagine he wanted to teach his quarterbacks coverages and reads, so I don't think it will be so novel to have a pro-style guy come in and tell the quarterback to throw it to one of these two guys against a two safety defense or these other two guys against a one safety defense. That shouldn't be too revolutionary.

 That said, there's an old coaching adage that says every time you change offenses (or defenses), your sophomores, juniors, and seniors become freshman. I think there's truth to that -- fortunately for LSU, those sophomores, juniors, and seniors are all big time recruits, and the talent should help the transition, even if there is a learning curve.

Ultimately, I think the glass half-full approach looks at Kragthorpe as a guy who came from a coaching family and had a lot of offensive success in the pros and in college, if you ignore Louisville. The pessimists will point to Louisville and say that this is a terrible thing. I think the answer is somewhere in between; obviously something went terribly wrong, but I'm not sure that something was limited to his plays, playcalling, and gameplans. And for Les and LSU, I'm not sure you need a let-it-all-hang-out guy like Malzahn. You just need to use the talent on hand. I expect Kragthorpe to do a fine -- if unspectacular -- job of that, though time will tell.

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Give the athletes a chance...

Let them make plays. This offense seems suited to do that.

by Paul Crewe on Jan 21, 2011 3:14 PM CST reply actions  

Agreed. We should find out...

if our players are as good as we think they are. Not a lot of trickery, you know what offensive patterns we’re going to run. Just stop us if you can.

by pttigris on Jan 21, 2011 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, yes...

Bama will have a great chance to do that in Tuscaloosa with the talent and experience they have coming back. Beyond that I’m not sure just how good that talent is but am quite certain that its sufficient to be MUCH more productive that we’ve seen in the last two years. (That its much more experienced will obviously help as well).

In general Delusional Optimism says to 20 finishes in ypg and ppg. Wlll that be good enough? We’ll see.

by croysolre on Jan 21, 2011 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank you

Excellent article. These days, my attitude has been that I know a bad offense when I see it. There was always something little that messed it all up and put us in the wrong spot. By the end of his first year, with a little more attention to detail and some repetition, I’m hoping we see a clear offensive identity and rock solid execution.

With Crowton, it’s the development at the QB position that I fault him for. His 2007 play calling was brilliant. Just from then on, with Perrilloux leaving and Jarrett Pick 6 Lee and JJ’s regression. He just never developed the QB that would make his offense work.

by Big McLargeHuge on Jan 21, 2011 4:07 PM CST reply actions  

If I learned anything from this season...

it’s that delusional optimism isn’t a bad thing. I for one welcome our new offensive overlord.

"Put me in a college football stadium press box on a Saturday afternoon, and I'm more giddy than a 13-year-old at a Miley Cyrus concert." - Mark Schlabach

by Matt 'n' The Hat on Jan 21, 2011 4:34 PM CST reply actions  

Predictable? LOL
If it works it will be great, but it probably has the potential to be labeled “predictable” (at least superficially) if the offense struggles

I believe there is no way we could be any more ‘predictable’ than with Crowton. Under GC, we line up all over the place, but most fans could call the play at the line of scrimage; I know everyone in our household could. I think some stable formations might actually serve to disguise what we’re doing more so than our exotic, yet advertised formations we’ve had with Crowton.

by Xanathol on Jan 21, 2011 5:06 PM CST reply actions  

I keep coming back to this thought

That Kragthorpe’s just not a big name, not innovative, a mediocre hire.

I’ve yet to hear a single person tell me why he can’t be extremely effective.

Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook

by Billy Gomila on Jan 21, 2011 6:10 PM CST reply actions  

i give him the benefit of the doubt...

At this point, he at least lets me dream the entire off season about how good our O will be. GC didn’t give us that luxury. I am optimistic at this point.

by Zandor435 on Jan 21, 2011 8:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I've never said he can't be effective

but there’s nothing in his history that suggests to me he will be either. Do I think he’ll be better than Crowton? Yes. But his track record is producing offenses that rank right around the middle of the FBS rankings. Todd Graham and Gus Malzahn took his Tulsa players and made them the #1 offense in the country two years running after 39th and 24th rankings under Krags.

You’re optimistic about the hire, I’m pessimistic (or at least underwhelmed). I can see your points, but it’s not any more convincing to me than my points are to you. I hope I’m wrong and you’re right, but it’s going to take results on the field to convince me this was a good hire.

by The Bengal on Jan 24, 2011 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Todd Graham and Gus Malzahn took his Tulsa players and made them the #1 offense in the country two years running after 39th and 24th rankings under Krags.

So Graham and Malzahn (and keep in mind, 3-4 years ago nobody had any tape of Malzahn’s full offense) took what Kragthorpe developed and kicked it into high gear — shouldn’t that speak well of what he left for them?

People are seeing what they want to see without looking at the whole picture, and the perception clouds the reality.

Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook

by Billy Gomila on Jan 24, 2011 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

You don't have to think he's going to be great

But I expect people to see this for what it is. People are looking at this through the prism of a guy who has coached all over the place and the reality is he’s 45 years old and has never stayed anywhere long — and that’s because he was pretty steadily moving up the coaching food chain until Louisville.

That’s because he was doing a great job at every stop.

Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook

by Billy Gomila on Jan 24, 2011 1:28 PM CST up reply actions  

IDENTITY

I think Mr. Brown hit this on the head on 2 related fronts: Gary Crowton appeared to be in love with both the enormity and complexity of his playbook to the extent that playcalling often didn’t seem to make sense. Things that were working were abandoned mid-game in favor of gimmickry and yet, things that clearly weren’t working were relentlessly pursued no matter how ineffective. This gave rise to the lack of an identity. This sometimes resulted in the forced use of talent, sets and plays simply because we had them and without any regard to whether they made sense. Novelty for the sake of novelty. I don’t know how much of a role Crowton played in the Cotton Bowl, but the offense seemed to be the most coherent of all year. Stick with the things that work until they don’t work anymore. Use those things to occasionally throw some novelty into the mix. Here’s hoping Kragthorpe gets the “identity” thing. By all accounts, we have reason to be optimistic, at least on that front.

by Deluded on Jan 21, 2011 8:19 PM CST reply actions  

Chip Kelly or whoever called Oregon plays this year was great at playcalling...

I loved how they would run the same plays over and over. They also had fantastic execution for long stretches. I remember at one point seeing them run the same screen pass 3-4 times b/c the corners were laying off. It was fun to watch.

by Zandor435 on Jan 21, 2011 8:39 PM CST up reply actions  

My thoughts

I was never one who wanted to see GC leave. I thought as horrible as our Oline was in ‘08, and shoddy as our QB play was the beginning of ’09, that it would have been tough for any OCoord to look competent. I remember screaming at the tv “why are we running the option”, because it was clear JJ wasn’t that, until he got pretty good at it then it was like “Ohhhhh”, now I get it. It often seemed sometimes like GC was trying to fit a square peg in a round hole wrt the players strengths. I have confidence that SK’s system will be more adaptable to player strenghts and I’m hoping it’ll be adaptable to adjustments within games and at halftime to expose the opponents alignments/weaknesses.

by Howard Green on Jan 22, 2011 2:32 AM CST reply actions  

I think things are looking up

For the gentleman above who complained that Malzahn took Krags 36th and 24th ranked Tulsa O and brought them up to #1……..first off, , it looks like Krag had them on their way up already. You never know what he would have done it he had stayed. Secondly, and more importantly, I would LOVE to have LSU’s Offense ranked 36th or 24th in the FBS. With our D, and offense that good would have us winning the SEC and maybe BCSNCG. In fact, we likely would have played for the crystal this year with a 50th ranked O.

I don’t have a problem with some simplification of our playbook. Get the right plays, with a few tricks here and there, and execute well. I would never call Jimbo’s offense complicated, and it was perfect for us, especially when blended with some spread/pistol and aggressive playcalling. In fact, in 2005, 2006, and 2007 ( we honestly ran mostly a mix of Fisher’s O with some of Crowton’s in 2007 ) I would venture to say that 95% of our plays were FB Dive/TB Lead, TB Off tackle, Toss sweep, Jailbreak/Bubble screen, Playaction fake to TB flood strong side, TE up the seam, dropback pass to TB out of the backfield, Playaction fake Shovel pass, and, in 06 and 07, a few versions of the read option.

I think we are in VERY good shape for the next few seasons. We have good,and more experienced, linemen with some absolute studs coming in. We have Randle, Shepard, Toliver, Williams, Wright, Boone, and we have Landry coming in………..not to mention Deangelo Peterson and the TE ( which Krag seems to like to pass to ). Our RB situation is beautiful Michael Ford, Spencer Ware, Alfred Blue, Jakhari Gore……..and Kenny Hilliard and Terrance Magee. I’ll be interested to see if Worle or Copeland plays FB or we use someone else, but I remember Worle’s HS clips and he was a beast.

Hopefully, if Jefferson remains the starter, Krag will be able to teach him a good bit during the spring and summer. He has had flashes of greatness throughout the season and the bowl game was great fun to watch ( though I still contend that his 2 long td passes to Tolliver were just chunked up and great plays by the WR ) Hopefully, for his senior year, with a good QB coach, everything will fall into place for JJ. Wouldn’t it be a hoot if he went All-SEC. Even if Jefferson stays below average, we’ve got Mettenberger coming in, and I think Krag’s offense will fit him like a glove.

by FullBloodedTiger on Jan 25, 2011 8:05 AM CST reply actions  

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