A Team Worth Hating
Here we are: Bama Week.
Our fearless leader will keep bringing you the news recaps and the mood of the fanbase. Billy and Paul, of course, will break down the X and O's, so you can go into the game as well-educated as possible. Which leaves me to do what I do best:
Irritate the opposing fanbase.
Alabama is an easy team to hate for one simple reason: they win. They've won a lot, and it seems like they will continue to win. Nobody hates Vanderbilt (well, maybe Louisville, who has to envy Vandy's sweet gig while they are constantly fighting for their survival).
Alabama has won 12 national titles, 22 SEC titles, and represented the Western Division in the SEC Championship Game just under 50% of the time. Alabama is the New York Yankees of the SEC, and they show no real sign of slowing down. It's just infuriating.
Every school has their own unique traditions: Between the Hedges, the War Eagle's flight, the Vol Navy, et cetera. Bama's tradition is winning. And houndstooth caps, just because that reminds them of the guy who won more than anybody.
Would I rather be a Bama fan? Of course not. LSU is just boatloads more fun. Alabama is respectable, dignified. They are college football royalty. We're completely unhinged psychopaths. In the SEC Family, we're the crazy drunk uncle. Everybody loves that guy, so long as he only trashes somebody else's house. Well, we're coming to trash Alabama's house this week. Hide the china.
Nowhere is the difference between the two programs more apparent than in our head coaches. Nick Saban is a great football coach. He wins a lot, primarily by preaching the Process. Alabama fans love the order and discipline he brings. Here's a guy who probably has a detailed plan on how to order eggs at Waffle House (if Saban would ever eat at a Waffle House). Saban has fostered the image of himself a dictator, who derives about as much joy from winning as you would from brushing your teeth. It's all part of the Process.
Les Miles can't even spell process. He's embraced the crazy and the lunatic fringe. Miles is also a great coach who wins a lot, but you get the sense that he's more exciting than anyone else in the stadium. He'd high five Mike the tiger if we'd let him. He seems to embrace that this is a game, and that all of this is fun. Not just the game, but the whole experience - the fans, the tailgating, the pageantry.
That's the image anyway, though I suspect the two coaches are more similar than anyone would like to admit. You don't just win by accident. And this LSU team is loaded. Miles also has acted swiftly and severely to punish players who break team rules. For all of the talk of him being a Player's Coach, this is isn't Florida State under Bowden, when players would get suspended for a half for an arrest.
Also, Saban's not quite the uptight prick he wants you to believe. He was willing to make fun of himself in that ESPN commercial where he eats a cookie off the floor. Besides, any guy who eats an oatmeal cream pie every day can't be too evil. He also embraces team traditions and understands he's leaving behind a legacy. He'll never be as goofy as Miles, but I like to picture Saban celebrating in the tunnels by himself like Herb Brooks after the Miracle on Ice. Well, if I liked to picture Saban celebrating, which I don't.
But the reason the two coaches foster such wildly divergent images is because that's what we, the fans, need. We need Saban to be Darth Saban, leading the Evil Empire of Alabama. We need Les Miles to be the insane gambler who is just getting by on passion because, well, that's how LSU sees itself. Even with all of the talent in the world, we are the perpetual underdog. And Alabama will always be ALABAMA, a team worthy of our hatred, but also of our respect.
LSU has won two national titles in the last ten years, something I never thought possible. We are the #1 team in the nation with commentators lining up to tell us how great we are. Yet LSU fans still look for every perceived slight, every possible insult. It's just who we are. We might have a great team, but we don't fully trust it. It could all be gone by tomorrow. Look at how quickly it all crumbled under Archer.
Alabama, on the other hand, expects to be good. This is the natural order of things. You don't find too many Tide fans uncomfortable with being the hunted - they expect to be on the top of the mountain, looking down on the rest of us peons.
I don't want to be Alabama. I want to beat Alabama. For all of our differences, we're really not that different. We both want the same thing, but only one of us can be the SEC Champions.
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Wow,
I didn’t think I could get anymore hyped for this game until now. Great article man! Roll Tide!
Yes, we have thirteen....
by AlltheGreatQBs on Oct 31, 2011 12:52 PM CDT reply actions
What is best in life?

To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Oct 31, 2011 1:07 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Great Article Poseur
Very insightful I think. Your tone mirrors my feelings about Bama. I want to beat them…but i don’t hate them….but i want to beat them.
13 National Titles.
…and counting.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Oct 31, 2011 1:35 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You can tell they're counting.
They took their shoes off, and their lips are moving.
"Clever got me this far, and tricky got me in"
by DrBundy on Oct 31, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
And who says we're not unhinged psycopaths?
Ever seen an Iron Bowl?
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Well REAUXL TIDE then!
There’s your flair.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Um
Have you seen Bama play?
I wouldn’t be clearing the mantle for another trophy just yet if I were you.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Who said anything about clearing a mantle?
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Both programs should be proud
of the effort, consistency, toughness, and football savvy they’ve exhibited this year. Class of the NCAA.
Gig ‘em, here’s to one hell of a game Saturday night.
Everyone needs to stop saying Alabama has 13 titles - because they don't.
If we counted the way Bama does, we’d have 7 titles. The only reason people say Bama has this many titles is because Bama fans keep repeating it, much like a political campaign.
Read any of the countless articles on the matter.
1925 – awarded in 1927 and again in 1941
1926 – awarded in 1941
1930 – awarded in 1933 and by only 1 of 7 polls ( 6 others had ND )
1934 – awarded in 1946 by Football Thesaurus
1941 – 20th in AP poll, 3rd in SEC, only ranked first in 1946 by Football Thesaurus
For those a lil behind the curve, that means Bama has 8 titles – a terrific accomplishment no doubt – but its not 13.
If we counted like Bama does, according to NCAA records, we’d have 4 more titles in 1908, 1935, 1936, and 1962.
by Xanathol on Oct 31, 2011 2:02 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
1908
Honestly, we should claim that one. It’s legit.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
by Poseur on Oct 31, 2011 2:06 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Bama probably took it already.
"Clever got me this far, and tricky got me in"
by DrBundy on Nov 1, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Not at all.
I just make sarcastic comments and bring very little else to the table. No time to be mad, especially about a “title” from over a century ago.
"Clever got me this far, and tricky got me in"
Not to mention
1941 is Mississippi State’s only SEC championship…trying to take that from them just seems like stealing from the handicapped.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Oct 31, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
A lot of Bama fans (myself included)...
…disagree with the claim on ‘41. It’s ridiculous to claim that one.
And c'mon...it's State
Let ’em have their ONE conference title ;-)
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Oct 31, 2011 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I claim 1966
in place of 41.
Notre Dame can kiss my …
"Never start a fight with an old man...if he's too old to fight, he'll probably just kill you."
by figtide on Nov 1, 2011 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Which is why I hate them
Not because they are often good, but because they are arrogant pric-ticles about it. Why claim a bunch of BS titles when you have 8 real titles? Why does every O’bama fan walking up the stadium have to have a “witty” word about how bad we want Saban back? You know why, because they are insecure. They know that before Saban fell in their lap their last great team was 1991. They saw it all Rolling down the toilet bowl. So now, like Penn State fans, you have to hear about all their success 600 years ago. Their very good, and will continue to be. But they are insecure about it lasting.
2-2 under Saban v. Miles. A title a piece. I for one am not a bit jealous of O’bama. If I was going to be jealous of them, I’ve have a long list of schools to look up to that have more titles than LSU – real and make believe.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Oct 31, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
and you can
say the same thing right?
“They know that before Saban fell in their lap their last great team was 1991.”
Also, don’t really get the O’bama thing? Are you praising Obama for being wildly successful like alabama? Or are you saying Alabama is the first black president(cuz ill take either cause the latter gives us street cred son!)? Perhaps your stuck on the whole rhyming thing?
In and of itself nothing matters. What matters is that nothing is in and of itself. Chuck K.
Are you praising Obama for being wildly successful like alabama?
If Alabama had Obama’s type of success, they’d have less wins, claim 105 national championships, and blame the ones they didn’t win on Bush.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
by LSU Jonno on Nov 1, 2011 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions 10 recs
I'll be here all day!
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
ammie
That is true, you have to have a good coach to win games, we went several years without one that was good. I really thought when we got Shula that we had a good one, but oh well I have been wrong before and probably will again. We really like Saban and he is an excellent coach. I hope he stays down there for years to come. But, if he leaves hopefully we can get another good one. Because as I say you have to have good coaching to win games.
pick the way you want to count them
we still have more.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
by kleph on Oct 31, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Honestly I don't see why this would bother anyone
They can claim 8, or 13, or 21, or eleventy bagillion. I worry about who the 1933 champion was about as much as I worry about Ole Miss’s 2003 SEC West co-championship.
Anyway if one of ‘em starts talking about 13 championships just say something "gee that’s nice. Just 8 or 9 more and you’ll finally catch up to Yale"
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 31, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
exactly....just
cause teams decided around 1960ish that the only way to determine a NC was with the AP poll doesn’t mean that NC’s before that time weren’t legit.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
actually
princeton is the top of the heap.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Ha ha
They give Princeton credit for an MNC in 1869, ie, the first year college football was ever played. In other words, they beat Rutgers. Crown em!
Georgia and Ole Miss are trailing that powerhouse Lafayette of Pennsylvania.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 31, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
And 150+ years later,
we have Princeton Redux Boise State.
“They beat Oklahoma Va. Tech Georgia! Crown ’em!”
At LSU —
Miles with Saban-recruited players on the roster: 79.2% win rate
Miles with no Saban-recruited players on the roster: 90.5% win rate
Saban with DiNardo-recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
Saban with all Saban recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
CFB Data Warehouse
I used their count to intentionally sidestep the counting issue, and it happened anyway. I do like their count, because we have 4 “Recognized” Titles, which I think is right, even though we don’t claim 1908. I like that because I live in Texas and any time a Horn fan gets uppity about their place in the college football hierarchy, I like to remind them they have just as many titles as LSU — and LSU fans are honest enough to admit that Alabama is on a level above, historically speaking.
I think if a legit third party with a vested interest in fairness and accuracy can give Bama 12 titles, then I’m good with that count. Which doesn’t mean we can’t make fun of them, because that’s what we do.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
i did an article awhile back
looking at the reasons for why alabama claims the given titles. it’s not another defense but an examination of the problems accounting these championships over historical eras due to the many ways they have been selected over the years.
bottom line, it’s an endless argument since there is not definitive answer. the ncaa does not award a champion in the sport. my personal opinion is that if you’d like to have a better means of evaluating particular football programs, you’d do better to use the sec championship given the longevity and consistency of the conference. yes, alabama comes out far ahead but you get a much better idea of how well the other schools in the sec have done historically against each other.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
I've looked into Bama's history myself
and the surrounding cfb landscape of the years, though it’s been a while and I forget specifics. There’s only one year I came up with that I thought Bama was just goofy for claiming a title.
I also found a year where I think Alabama clearly should have been awarded a title, or at least claimed one, but oddly enough, they don’t claim that one. I think it was 1966 or something. Back to back defending champs, I think, and went undefeated. Not sure what else the pollsters were looking for.
1966
Back to back national champions in ‘64-’65. They started the the ‘66 season ranked #1 in the AP, went undefeated and untied and finished #3 behind Notre Dame and Michigan State, both 10-0-1, with the tie coming against each other. My parents are still pissed off about that one. I think it’s also a large part of the reason a lot of Alabama fans loathe Notre Dame.
Everyone loathes Notre Dame
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
by Poseur on Oct 31, 2011 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
December 31, 1973 Sugar Bowl
I was there, the old Tulane stadium, and thoroughly enjoyed watching Notre Dame defeat Alabama. The SEC homerism and Notre Dame hate did not come until much later. And Bama claims that AP ’ship that was passed out before the bowl game, but they should put an asterisk behind it
Head coach Les Miles of the LSU Tigers leads his team in their usual pregame warmup song "Head, Sheauxlders, Knees, and Teauxs." -Spencer Hall
No
anyone who didn’t finish out their season with a bowl win has no right to proclaim themselves National Champion, and should therefore have an asterisk behind one that was given before all of that year’s games were finished
Head coach Les Miles of the LSU Tigers leads his team in their usual pregame warmup song "Head, Sheauxlders, Knees, and Teauxs." -Spencer Hall
That was the game where
Ara Parseghian intentionally played for a tie by running out the clock instead of trying to score to guarantee an undefeated season. That is why Alabama fans hate Notre Dame. It’s chicken to play for a tie instead of trying to win.
"Never start a fight with an old man...if he's too old to fight, he'll probably just kill you."
It's like kissing your sister.
"We knew we had to turn it up or we would get beat. We ripped the knob off. We turned it up so much we broke the knob." - Roy Upchurch after beating Florida in the 2009 SEC Championship Game
by bearbryantwonit on Nov 1, 2011 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions
a bama fan quoting bear bryant
isn’t that odd, is it?
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Derogatory remark involving "coonass" in 1...2...3...
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
it just so happens
i’m a coonass
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Not that there's anything wrong with that. :-)
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
And a real one.
Most out-of-state-fans don’t really understand the definition. It’s not “anyone from Louisiana.”
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Honestly...
I prefer “corndog” to “coonass” as my slur-of-choice for LSU fans :)
It’s not even overly derogatory…it just sounds funny to say out loud for some reason.
"You have to create six seconds of hell, every time the ball is snapped..."
-Nick Saban
by KongAtTheGates on Nov 1, 2011 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I just laugh at the other side on that one
Some Auburn fan plagiarized a 15-year-old internet post from an Oklahoma fan. My reaction to it has always been “um…okay?”
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
yeah...
I remember reading about the origin of the corndog thing. I never did figure out how that became so big.
It’s still funny, though- if for no other reason than the complete non-sequitur value.
Honestly I wish Bama fans had a nickname that was that funny. The best anyone seems to come up with is “Bammer”…which is really lame.
At least there are some half decent Bama fan jokes. My favorite: What do Alabama fans and Maggots have in common?
Both can live for 30 years off a dead Bear. :)
"You have to create six seconds of hell, every time the ball is snapped..."
-Nick Saban
by KongAtTheGates on Nov 2, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Unfortunately
Bama would have 18 titles if they used the NCAA Record Book.
I do agree with you though. There was some year in the 80s or 90s where an SID decided, “We have 12 instead of 8” and everything has been brainwashing ever since.
I believe there's on minor detail you may have overlooked...

As far as the 1925, 26, 30, and 34 titles are concerned, during that era, polls were irrelevant. Whoever won the Rose Bowl (which happened to be the only bowl game) were deemed national champions. Don’t believe me?





Below is an image of the 1935 NC trophy being presented to then Alabama head coach Frank Thomas, Bama team captain Bill Lee and Elmer Anderson, UA president George Denny and Rissman:

1941 is of course BS, and I’m not defending this title. But if you want to bash Alabama, keep in mind the AP, even in 1941, did not become the main selector until the UPI debuted in 1950. That explains why UK claimed a title in 1950, yet finished 7th in the AP; Illinois in 1951, yet finished 5th in the AP; USC in 1939, yet finished 3rd in the AP; etc. etc. etc.
And if Alabama claimed outright BOGUS championships, then we could make a claim for:
1931: We finished 9-0-1 and the national champions, Minnesota, finished 7-1.
1945: We finished 10-0, yet the national champions, Army, finished 9-0 (and didn’t play in a bowl game).
1966: Alabama finished 11-0, yet the split champions Notre Dame and Michigan State finished 9-0-1.
1974: Alabama 11-1, USC (champions) 10-1-1
Or even 1977. A 11-1 Alabama destroyed Ohio State in the Sugar Bowl (even Hayes said “If Alabama isn’t national champions, nobody is”), yet 11-1 Notre Dame jumped Alabama in the final poll. Notre Dame lost to Ole Miss that year, yet Alabama destroyed Ole Miss.
So don’t act as if Alabama randomly claims bogus titles. Other than 1941, there’s a legit argument for each case. Are you guys going to say our bowl wins and conference titles are illegitimate as well?
by Jamie Keller on Nov 1, 2011 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
By the way,
I’m not trolling you guys. I don’t care how you feel about Alabama fans, but I love you guys! LSU fans are by far the funnest fans to tailgate with and I’m looking forward to partying with you guys Saturday!
Win or lose, when LSU comes to town, you’re guaranteed a great time!
by Jamie Keller on Nov 1, 2011 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Huh huh huh huh ( in tribute to the return of Bevis and Butthead )
that one article says “Alabama handles balls”!
That's awesome
I have been trying to tell my Auburn fans this information for years, now I have written evidence
Could be 17
There are 4 national championships the NCAA recognizes that the university does not 2 of which were undefeated season 1945 and 1966. 1975 and 1977 were both one loss seasons. In 1966 was the year that they originally split decision between Michigan State and ND because the tied so there records were both 9-0-1 and Alabama was 10-0 and went on to win the Sugar Bowl. That year neither MSU or ND played in a bowl
guess that makes Auburn Bo$ton
All that money spent and just one title and more frustration.
I sure feel for Cam having to get by on just that NFL salary.
nemo me impune lacessit
by LSUJOSHUA on Oct 31, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Sox fans get by on our mix of self-righteousness and self-loathing thank you very much.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Oct 31, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I apologize
we all know Auburn, despite many reason, aren’t self-loathing. I think the rest of us make up for it with our loath. or loathing.
nemo me impune lacessit
I like this analogy...REC
and I don’t mean the red elephant club, aubies.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
by LSU Jonno on Nov 1, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
strict enforcement unlike Bowden?
Miles doesn’t just suspend players for a half for an arrest. He suspends them for a WHOLE GAME!?!?!?! So much discipline my head spins haha.
Don’t confuse this as whining about Matthieu and Ware being eligible this Saturday – I want your best this weekend so y’all have no excuses when you go running home to mommy after the beatdown coming your way – I just think its laughable you claim Les Miles takes STRICT disciplinary action.
What's laughable?
It was a first offense and what offense it was remains unconfirmed.
You know, kind of like how D.J. Hall’s suspension wasn’t confirmed for longer than the first half of a game he was suddenly needed for in the second.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Oct 31, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Really?
It was a first offense? So Miles went above and beyond to send a message to the team?
Well its a first offense so far as we know.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Oct 31, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Doesn't it have to be?
Because if it was a second offense, they’d be out for the UA-T game as well, by NCAA rule. But they aren’t.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 31, 2011 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
its unconfirmed cause
your coach refuses to give out the dirty details..just sayin. If LSU had lost a couple of games this season and this wasnt Bama week, how many games do you think he would of given them? Hint: would have been more than one.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
So basically, you're speculating and talking out of your ass.
That’s cool, just admit it.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Oct 31, 2011 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
well since Les refuses to disclose details..
we all are in fact talking out of our ass…
Follow on twitter @thelyell
We weren't the ones implying that he's somehow lax on discipline for it.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
maybe im a full
disclosure kind of guy. In the absence of facts or statements from Les, all we have is opinions. I am not saying Les is any more lax than say Saban, though i will say Saban puts off a more rugged vibe but im saying that there is a hint of “i need these guys to win so they’ll play” in his comments or lack there of.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
I'm more of a fan of backing up opinions with facts.
But, as noted below, I’m also not a fan of the whole “our program is cleaner” than yours argument anyway.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
it's not a matter of "refusing to disclose details"
it’s a matter of law. privacy concerning student records – particularly in terms of discipline and medical issues – is a legal issue as much as a policy issue for a given program. violating them will put you in hot water with everybody.
if a player is arrested, the issue is public record. but past that, a university and it’s employees are legally limited in how much they can reveal about offenses and punishments.
saban didn’t tell folks anything about calloway’s situation other than to acknowledge his arrest, miles sure as hell isn’t going further than that on a matter that hasn’t involved law enforcement.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
i thought there were no
arrests made? Meaning Les could talk about if he wanted to.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
it means the opposite.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
coaches talk about this stuff in detail all the time, arrest or not.
Some are just more tight lipped than others. we know what the suspensions were for but Les isn’t giving details. Mind you, I can understand why. My point isn’t that he should give details, just that in the absence of them, all you can do is guess.
And as I stated below I believe we are too lax when it comes to failed drug tests.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
My point isn’t that he should give details, just that in the absence of them, all you can do is guess.
OK…So what? How is that different than any other program? I think Kleph just explained WHY he can’t talk about it. It’s a privacy law issue.
Saban handles these things the same way…So does Chizik. So does every coach.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
actually
we don’t know what the suspensions are for. we just have a ton of speculation due to a boatload of anonymous sources. and les miles and every member of the lsu coaching staff are explicitly prohibited from commenting on it.
seriously, this kind of debate is meaningless, on the whole both saban and miles have run programs that have been extremely good at maintaining discipline. trying to use the limited number of problems players have caused under both men in order to grab the moral high ground is ludicrous.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
by kleph on Nov 1, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
And we need to remember
These are still kids. Kids make mistakes.
I much prefer having the best players on the field for each team.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
That would be FOUR GAMES
and it was for a misdemeanor, which still has not been proven. So yeah, that’s a pretty tight ship, as major Div. 1A programs go.
Matthieu and Ware? They weren’t arrested for anything. They violated team rules, and were benched for an SEC divisional matchup that wasn’t Ole Miss. Again, pretty tight discipline.
Actually those guys suspended for a game..
weren’t arrested at all.
Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.
by Richard Pittman on Oct 31, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
And while we're on the subject, Brent Calloway returned to practice last week
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/10/alabama_week_9_tuesday_practic.html
Glass houses, stones, etc. Pot happens.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 31, 2011 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
and to be honest
im pissed about this. I think we need to hold our players to a higher standard. One game isn’t enough IMO. Failed drug test = 2 game suspension. 2nd fail = 6 games 3rd = you’re off the team.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
0 arrests
Miles doesn’t just suspend players for a half for an arrest. He suspends them for a WHOLE GAME!?!?!?!
There weren’t ANY arrests. 0 arrests. No police involvement. The last LSU player arrested was suspended for four games. For a misdemeanor.
I will await the list of coaches who have suspended players for violations of team rules for two games with no arrest or violation of NCAA rules. Please cite the news article. I’m betting you can’t find one instance of that happening at a big time program.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
there is nothing i loathe more
than the “your team is dirtier than our team” argument. let’s face it, unless you’ve recently had guys facing serious felony charges COUGHAUBURNCOUGHCOUGHTENNESSEECOUGH every program in the land is a badly stashed bong away from an embarrassing incident. and since the institutions are – by law – limited in the amount of info they can give out on these matters, it’s idiotic to cast another coach as more lenient than your own in these matters. bickering about it is just a way to piss off the football gods.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Agreed
My point was not that Saban was super lenient and hiding skeletons in the closet, while his players are having Dionsysian orgies in which Craig James is invited to allegedly kill five prostitutes. My only point is that Miles has a “soft” rep, yet he’s been perfectly willing to issue suspensions to players who have stepped out of line.
Like I said, the two coaches are more similar than we probably think.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
basically
if a player steps out of line, they have a far better chance of getting straightened out inside the program than being kicked out of it. and a coach who has made a commitment to a player is obligated to give them every possible chance within reason. unless a coach has given reason to question their judgment in such cases – and it seems clear that neither miles or saban fits in that category – they deserve the benefit of the doubt on the matter no matter how upset some sanctimonious columnists wants to get over it.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
This
And in the end, no matter what any of us think, coaches are ultimately hired to win games, and they’re going to be pragmatic in weighing that against discipline. Eveyr coach. No. Matter. What.
Besides, we’re talking about football. While its one thing to joke about another team’s problems, in the end if all you can do is point and laugh at what happened to an opponent off the field, chances are you couldn’t do it about what happened ON the field.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Oct 31, 2011 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
All I know is...
While I was at UA, I did FAR worse than anything the LSU players did in their recent incident…and I wasn’t a bad kid or anything…just young, dumb, and wanting to experiment with relatively harmless substances.
The only difference is I didn’t play football, so when I did stupid crap, it wasn’t national news. I’d imagine 99% of the college grads reading this, regardless of where they went to school, can say the same thing.
This whole incident was blown way the hell out of proportion. Ok, they broke a team rule. They got a slap on the wrist, which is exactly what they should have gotten. You can’t expect college kids to not act like college kids just because they also play football. I’d feel differently if this were some major incident- if they found 37 dead hookers stuffed in the players’ trunk, for instance. But smoking a little fake weed? Honestly that didn’t even merit a real punishment in my mind.
I’m a bama guy through and through, but I’m glad your players are back. It would be a shame for both teams not to be at full strength for this game.
"You have to create six seconds of hell, every time the ball is snapped..."
-Nick Saban
by KongAtTheGates on Nov 1, 2011 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with you.
It’s not like the kids were busted smuggling heroine.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 2, 2011 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions
To be fair, the number of dead hookers was only five. Allegedly. And there's no evidence they were in a trunk
#rememberthefive
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 2, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
oh...well in that case...
I’m fairly sure 5 dead hookers is under the legal dead hooker limit anyway. I think that’s like a $25 dollar fine in most states. It may be different in LA, though. You know, Napoleonic code and all.
I think you have to hit at least 7 before it’s even a felony, though.
"You have to create six seconds of hell, every time the ball is snapped..."
-Nick Saban
by KongAtTheGates on Nov 2, 2011 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
exactly
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
Wasn't it Saban that suspended DJ Hall for the game against ULM
then put him in the game in the second half to save his skin when yall were losing?
What kind of message does that send? “I’ll punish you so long as the results aren’t embarrassing for the HC.”
Contrast that with Miles who obviously knew that his team would be much worse off w/o Perilloux in 2008, yet still gave him the boot, and never used that as an excuse when we sucked…
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
Not sure about this part, though:
Yet LSU fans still look for every perceived slight, every possible insult. It’s just who we are.
I’m not convinced that this is true of LSU fans outside the internet message board crowd. The only LSU fans I hear whining like that are on places like TD.com, and other similar virtual personalities. The real life LSU fans I know pretty much understand the reality of big market vs. small market and just love the great attention we’re getting now.
I was over checking out the Bama SBN blog
talk about a bunch of homers!
According to the Gumps, when UA loses, they don’t get beat, they merely beat themselves. Really?! I think that if you look up the term “homer” in a dictionary, it will have a picture of someone wherein a hounds tooth baseball cap.
by Displaced Tiger on Oct 31, 2011 3:07 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
But they do have a nice website and
lots of data about the efficiency of just about every player on their team.
by Displaced Tiger on Oct 31, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
They do real good work.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Oct 31, 2011 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
thanks
we like to think of ourselves as a resource for anyone interested in the team. not just the crimson tide fans.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Maybe....
but at least we can spell.
I assume you are referring to the Retrospective article? I don’t really agree that it gives a “we beat ourselves” attitude, but rather points out the reasons for our loss(es). I hardly think that pointing out key mental mistakes, coaching mishaps and blown opportunities is taking away any credit from LSU for winning the game. The point of the article was this – Bama must avoid these mistakes this year if it hopes to avoid the same result as last year.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Oct 31, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
The article was actually a fair account of the game...
the homerism comes through in the comments section. All fan bases have them (including our own), but wow. That’s all I have to say about that.
As for commenting on the spelling in blog comments, I guess that is only slightly more foolish than me reading a bama blog and commenting on the presence of homers. (I say slightly more foolish because at least I made my comments on the LSU site, not the Bama site. And “wherein” is spelled perfectly…I just used the wrong word. So I guess your comment is directed my misusing a word…which is right, you got me there.)
Regarding “mental mistakes” costing a game…jumping off side is a “mental mistake.” The fourth down end around wasn’t a mental mistake on Bama’s part, that was a brilliantly designed and executed play. Some of those so-called “mental mistakes” are just the other team making a play. To blame the other team’s success on your team’s mental mistakes is “homerism” at its best.
Good luck this weekend. My hope is for a very well played game with the best team coming out on top.
by Displaced Tiger on Oct 31, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably a bit more than slightly more foolish....
but hey….you did play the “if you look up ______ in the dictionary” card…so I assumed foolish was acceptable.
Regarding the 4th down end around – no doubt, that was a great call. Couple that great call with Bama not expecting it at all (hence, the articles reference to coaching being alseep) and it worked to perfection. Furthermore, it probably gives LSU a bit of an edge this year as a similar situation will undoubtably arise.
I think the completion on the 3rd and long that sealed the game is the best example of a mental lapse. Bama’s secondary left one of LSU’s best (if not the best) receivers uncovered. This type of thing sealed our fate in our three losses, and almost did in the Arkansas game.
I don’t think USCe, LSU, and auburn all had success against Bama simply because of Bama’s mental mistakes. However, Bama’s mental mistakes in these games absolutely did pave the way to making success a little bit easier. But, that’s the difference between a good team and a great team. Last year, Bama was very good, probably not great. This year – I guess we will find out in a little over 4 days.
I’m with you – I’m hoping for a well played, injury free game. Good luck to your Tigers as well. I’m hoping when all is said and done, you guys are the ones on here playing “homer” and not us ;-)
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
You could say...
The linebacker/end player responsible for contain, pinched in too much and should have held his position. You could also say (as Saban/Smart didn;t consult with me first ;-) it was a bad defensive call where they just got outcoached on that play. To me it just looked like the guy on the edge got sucked in and sealed off as a result by LSU.
Now calling that play is a GREAT example/analogy to show the different coaching styles between Saban and Miles. There’s NO WAY Saban makes a call like that late in the game – too much risk of a negative play. And just perhaps…Miles knew that which is why he called it.
To me Saban and Co. got outcoached on that play.
Now we got back in the game only to have a true freshman corner get caught out of position on the 3rd and a billion to go. That was a mental mistkae that proved to be a back breaker for us.
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
Interesting to hear
There’s NO WAY Saban makes a call like that late in the game – too much risk of a negative play.
I agree. Saban has many strengths, but what always drove me nuts as a fan when he was at LSU was how he would pack it in w/ 1:45 on the clock w/ the ball in our O’s hands before halftime. The last two games, Miles has pushed for a score before half and been rewarded w/ a TD.
There are two sides to that coin…I get it, but I have enjoyed Miles more in that respect.
Disagree heartily
With about 25 seconds to go and a timeout, ball on the 22, I’d expect Saban to take a shot at the endzone with a QB like Flynn, then kick the FG to win it if it’s incomplete.
You mean, of course, BECAUSE IT"S THE RIGHT FREAKING CALL!
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
+1
If you notice, Saban usually dials up trick plays (which is a relative term in and of itself) in the first half. My guess is that his perspective is if it goes wrong, he’s still got time to make positive plays.
When he’s got little time left, it’s no huddle stuff – NOT – let the placeholder throw it over his shoulder to the kicker for the first down/win. The odds of Saban calling something like that are about 3000-1. If it does happen, you better get it on DVR because it’ll probably never happen again.
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
Whoops, my bad
Wrong play. Yes, I agree with you on that one. No TE reverse for Saban in that situation.
i got off topic...
my response was somewhat off in the weeds and not directed at the TE play at all. I was commenting on the bi-product of the two coaches’ philosophies.
not talking about auburn game
I am 100% behind that call and always have been. I am talking about pretty much every other game where LSU would get the ball on our 35 w/ 2 minutes left in the half. Saban would usually sit on it. Miles pushes more.
I was saying i like that Miles pushes more.
Not to take anything away from Bama fans homerism . . .
and I haven’t read the blog you’re talking about, but I think there is room for a different perspective on this:
Regarding "mental mistakes" costing a game…jumping off side is a "mental mistake." The fourth down end around wasn’t a mental mistake on Bama’s part, that was a brilliantly designed and executed play. Some of those so-called "mental mistakes" are just the other team making a play. To blame the other team’s success on your team’s mental mistakes is "homerism" at its best.
You can’t control what plays the other teams try to run. The only thing you can do is try to stop them. And the most successful way to stop that particular play would be to diagnose it immediately, which Bama players clearly did not. That is not to say that it wasn’t a brilliant playcall or execution by LSU. But in terms of what their team can do to avoid plays like that in the future, their own mental aspect of not being fooled by it is all they can change themselves.
So, yes, the Bama fans were being completely ridiculous homers (again, haven’t read it; just playing the odds here), but I don’t think pointing out mental mistakes by your team is necessarily “homeristic”.
here's the problem
you admit it’s an arguable definition but then slide down the slippery slope to declare us “completely ridiculous homers” in our assessment. if you insist on holding us to some platonic ideal in our analysis we’re gonna ask you to do the same in your criticism.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
That's no slippery slope
That’s a slip’n’slide of cheap beer into a tub of bourbon! You’re Bama fans, of course you’re ridiculous homers. And you smell funny. And your hats are ugly. And crimson sucks. And your elephant is fat. And WE HATE YOU (at least this week)!
by King Joey on Nov 1, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I couldn't have said it better myself.
This is about stoking the flames of a rivalry on the week of the big game. So, yes, Bama fans are homers. Be proud and be loud in homerness. And no one said that there was anything wrong with it…other than you are Gump homers. And more particularly, that you are Gump homers this week.
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
that's not the issue
the allegation is that the content we produce at roll bama roll is biased due to our allegiance to the team. i think that’s unfair and reflects a lack of familiarity with our work.
while i certainly try and focus my own posts on what i feel the team is doing well, i certainly don’t shy away from highlighting aspects of the program i feel fall short and i daresay my fellow writers on the site approach it similarly.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Guess I wasn't clear enough
I hadn’t read the article, or RBR at all. I was spewing generalized slurs, slander and insults because you’re stupid Tide fans, wave laundry detergent and toilet paper in the stands, you all worship Paul Finebaum, we’re playing you this week, and I furkin’ hate houndstooth (especially with RED in it!), AND I HATE BAMA (this week)!
Better?
At LSU —
Miles with Saban-recruited players on the roster: 79.2% win rate
Miles with no Saban-recruited players on the roster: 90.5% win rate
Saban with DiNardo-recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
Saban with all Saban recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
we despise paul finebaum
but the rest of that is pretty dead on.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
if you hate purple
more than orange, you might want to re-evaluate your priorities, son.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Couldn't agree more
OTS has a way of turning positives into negatives that is unparallelled.
But he is just brutally honest. Last year when the national media was slobbering all over Alabama repeating, it was RTR that cooled the jets and emphasized the inexperience of the defense.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
We aren
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Nice.
We aren’t homers, we just know we’re better than you.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Your elephant is fat...
Love it! Have a rec tiger!
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
So,
anyone with an opinion that you don’t agree with, is a homer? Opinions are what these effing blogs are made of 90% of the time man. Get over it.
Yes, we have thirteen....
by AlltheGreatQBs on Oct 31, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
To answer your question, No.
Having an opinion that differs from mine has nothing to do with Bama fan’s being homers. Seriously though, every fan base has them. In fact, I would go so far as to say that every real fan has homeristic tendencies. Its just some fan bases wear their homerism on their sleeves (or on their heads in the cases of the hounds tooth ball caps) more than others. That’s all.
So, I have nothing to get over on my end.
Good luck this weekend. My hope is for a very well played game with the best team coming out on top.
And I meant it when I said that you guys have a nice website. I actually do appreciate the efficiency analysis. Good stuff.
by Displaced Tiger on Oct 31, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
So its your homer opinion that
LSU won because of no other reason than X’s and O’s. I would say that mental lapses by our secondary and coaching mistakes caused the game to end in a loss. Is that homerism? Sure, is it wrong? No.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
Actually, I never said that we won only on x's and o's. But at least you are starting to see my point.
I’m glad we can agree on something.
by Displaced Tiger on Oct 31, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
if your point is that we are all homers, than i agree..
but your comment above was basically saying that RBR is full of blind homers which is simply not true.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
No one ever said you were blind.
I have blind friends…but Homer bama fans…well, actually my best man is a Homer bama fan, so I guess I have those kinds of friends as well. Regardless, yes, I called you homers. And yes, I said that all real fans have homeristic tendencies. So, again, I’m glad we can agree on something.
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm having trouble with seeing anything wrong with the term Homer.
I would expect to be called that by another fanbase. Besides, I’ve been called far worse things than Homer. If we (being Bama) win, you can call me a winning Homer ;-)
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
whats funny is he's mad because we use the word
“luck” and what not to describe other teams success against us and what do you know…There’s a huge thread of comments below talking about “luck” and teams success against LSU..
Sometimes, when you are the better team yet the oppenent beats you there is luck involved. Sometimes, its not the other team that really did anything to beat you but your own mistakes that causes those events to happen.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
No one is mad...
And I agree…there is nothing wrong with being called a homer. As I’ve said many times, all real fans have homeristic tendencies. In other words, we all have at least a little homer in us.
My comments aren’t directed to the RBR site, which I have also repeatedly complimented as having good (if not excellent) content, but were directed to a lot of posters that attribute UA’s losses to UA’s mental mistakes without actually giving credit to the other team for putting UA in a position to make those mental mistakes (or putting themselves in position to get the lucky bounce of the ball). I defined a homer as a person who thinks so highly of their team that they can’t admit that the other team on the field won the game (as opposed to their team having lost the game).
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
And sometimes
the other team is better than you and lines up and beats you (like LSU did to Bama last year).
At LSU —
Miles with Saban-recruited players on the roster: 79.2% win rate
Miles with no Saban-recruited players on the roster: 90.5% win rate
Saban with DiNardo-recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
Saban with all Saban recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
Love the signature line
that is a GREAT set of stats.
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks!
Figured I had to break out something special for a week like this!
At LSU —
Miles with Saban-recruited players on the roster: 79.2% win rate
Miles with no Saban-recruited players on the roster: 90.5% win rate
Saban with DiNardo-recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
Saban with all Saban recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
without trent richardson for most of the game
but hey, we’re generalizing here.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Another excuse?
And two years ago you won bc PP was out of the game on your TD. Right? Actually no, not right. You won the game. It doesn’t matter who was in when. A win is a win. Period.
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Peterson out?
So was Ciron Black, Jefferson, Dickson, and I think one of our defensive linemen. A loss is a loss. No one wants to hear who was hurt.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
I'd forgotten about that - man by the end of the game
we were missing half of our star players. And Bama still needed refgate. ;-)
i would actually say LSU and Bama were very similar last year..
I really do feel that our biggest problem last year wasn’t ability but the mental game. We didn’t seem right till the MSU game.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
man,
I overreacted a bit. RollBamaRoll is my 2nd home. I am just ready for this game to kick off. My apologies.
Yes, we have thirteen....
by AlltheGreatQBs on Oct 31, 2011 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
That's what we are all doing...kicking it off.
I seriously hope none of this is taken personally by anyone.
This is about getting pumped for a great game. That’s why I visited the Bama blog to begin with and why I felt like commenting over here. Kicking the crap out of UT, UF, and Auburn in consecutive weeks has been the perfect build up for this game. The only way to top beating the holy hell out those three is to beat you guys in your house. I can’t wait for Saturday.
Best of luck and enjoy the build up to the Game of the Century (This Year). Should be a blast.
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions
and this blog has a lot of lsu homers
particularly in the comments. a shocking development.
be realistic people. ATVS is a great site because they wear their fandom on their sleeve but don’t let that blinker their judgement about the team they love. that’s all we try to do at RBR as well..
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
"that’s all we try to do at RBR as well.."
No doubt.
Difference is I’m commenting about your homers to my homers…not your homers. Well, except for your homers that are showing up on our blog.
Regardless, good luck this weekend. My hope is for a very well played game with the best team coming out on top.
And I meant it when I said that you guys have a nice website. I actually do appreciate the efficiency analysis. Good stuff.
by Displaced Tiger on Oct 31, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Difference is I’m commenting about your homers to my homers…not your homers. Well, except for your homers that are showing up on our blog.
/headexplodes
1+2+1+1…
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
by Poseur on Oct 31, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
hey friend...can you give some
actual quotes and back up that hilarious statement above?
Follow on twitter @thelyell
oh my goodness yes
they’re undefeated and never outcoached. They just make mistakes. Never any credit given to someone that actually outdid them. The author of that article is terrible about that.
nemo me impune lacessit
we're a bama blog
why is it beyond your understanding that we are more concerned in our analysis about what we did wrong than what the other team did right?
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
And we're an LSU blog...
Why is it beyond your understanding that we are poking fun at you for thinking that your team lost because of what it did wrong when in actuality it is about what our team did right?
If I cared enough to comment on the Bama blog, I would expect similar treatment and a similar line of comments…i.e., civil discourse about how you are wrong.
by Displaced Tiger on Oct 31, 2011 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions
easy kleph
i wasn’t talking about you. you’re one of the good guys, by far. but damn you are sensitive.
nemo me impune lacessit
So you aren't a homer?
of course you are…WE ALL ARE. I think OTS and the members of RBR all agree that LSU did a lot right in the game BUT we also admit that we shot ourselves in the foot more last year than anything else.
Bama had all the talent in the world to repeat last year but due to mental mistakes and some good play by our opponents we were handed 3 loses.
I would say the only game last year where we were physically beat for 4 quarters of football and deserved to lose was the USC game. We had LSU and Auburn in place to win in the 4th quarter. Had we played our game for 4 quarters we probably don’t lose those two games..which makes the loses so much harder to get over..
#neverforget
Follow on twitter @thelyell
Homer says what?
Just like the year before we had you guys in position to win in the 4th quarter but we had a mental mistake and our all american CB went down with cramps and your coaches recognized it and called a play to your all american WR picking on our back up. Totally lucky play on your part… I mean we beat ourselves by getting a cramp…I mean, smart call by your coaches. See how that type of logic plays both ways? A homer can ALWAYS find an excuse for why his team beat itself. That’s all I’m saying. And by the way, I think your coaches made a smart call with the PP/JJ play described above. Was it bad luck that PP got a cramp…maybe. But recognizing that he was out and calling a play to take advantage of it is solid coaching. Well done.
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
let me ask you this question...
Would you say that most of the time, when the favored team gets beat it has more to do with what the underdog did on the field or perhaps the mistakes the other team made that cost them the game? (I am speaking more of legit upsets than say #1 losing to #2)
I say its a little of both.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
"I say its a little of both" This is exactly my point...
The inability to see the contribution of the other team’s effort (or inability to give them credit) is the thing that I took exception to. And to be quite honest, its a minor thing. I was on RBR …of course posters on RBR are going to say pro Tide things. Just like you are on the ATVS site and I (we) are saying pro Tiger things. I took no real offense. I merely came back to the LSU blog and called you all a bunch of homers…again “not that there’s anything wrong with that” except that you are Bama homers. If you were LSU homers, I wouldn’t call you out so much, although, extreme LSU homers saying nonsensical stuff do routinely get called out on this site.
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
i hate to continue this stupid argument...cause it really is dumb but
It is both. You can look back at any NC run and you’ll see luck involved. Both UF and Bama needed blocked FG’s to beat far less teams. LSU had two losses and needed some help. Auburn had multiple lucky breaks; USC needed a push from Reggie to beat Notre Dame.
When it comes to losses the same thing is true. Usually the underdog needs some luck. Sure handed WR/RB’s dropping passes or out of nowhere fumbling. Dumb penalties, Lack luster performances. etc etc etc.
The better team doesn’t always win. I will give credit where credit is due. I believe when there is an upset, effort, preparation, intensity and performance is necessary. But I also believe it’s the lack of these things that causes the favorite to lose as well. It’s the combination. Bama has notoriously played down to our opponents. See LA Monroe, UT/AU in 09, a couple of times this year in the 1st half, USC last year, etc. Did those teams do a hell of a lot to cause us to play so poorly? Sure. But it’s my opinion, that had we played at our best and in the right mindset all those games end up a blowout…
But there would never be an upset if the favorite team always plays their best.
Follow on twitter @thelyell
Again, that is my point. It is a combination.
But you wouldn’t know from the things I read posted on RBR. It was mostly “UA’s mistakes” caused the loss as though the other team had nothing to do with it.
I must concede that I am basing my comments on a very limited data set bc I don’t hang out over there.
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Come on Nov 5
Great, great read. See you guys in T-town! We wish you a safe and happy journey in, we hope that you find our hospitality to be among the best venues you will visit. Most of all we wish you an unhappy ride home. Should be a great game. Roll Tide!
by Bleedingcrimsonandwhite on Oct 31, 2011 4:35 PM CDT reply actions
Enjoyed the read, S.E.C! But more importantly Roll Tide!
Can anyone think of a better match up or anything better than college football? Damn, can’t wait!!!
VANDY -- VANDY -- OH HELL YEAH!
"You play fast. You play strong. You dominate the guy you're playing against and MAKE HIS A** QUIT!" - Coach Nick Saban
Great article
Bama will win, but this is a fantastic article. Well-written, with just enough smack talk and no real hate or disrespect. This is what SEC rivalry should be about. Roll Tide!
by kasingleton on Oct 31, 2011 5:40 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Damn
There’s even some flaming on ATVS. Just got back from SECRant.com……….I really think it’s about to enter apocalyptic meltdown, and it’s only MONDAY
The color Crimson
Makes me sick. Those jerseys make me sick, that A makes me sick, even that moron elephant. I hate these guys. I hate them more then any other team out there.
by ChadP7 on Oct 31, 2011 7:40 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Now that’s the stuff!
Being good has nothing to do with it, Mikey. They choose your name randomly out of the phonebook.
by Mr. Kobayashi on Oct 31, 2011 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you guys should wear your purple unis
I hear it is the favorite color of 12 year old girls…
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Given your posts here, you probably have a good handle on little girls' opinions.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Easy, sparky
You seem a tad on edge this morning. You must’ve been looking at some of Bama’s game tapes this morning.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
I'm not the one talking about little girls
On a football blog.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
you're clearly thinking of someone else

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Thank you
Make no mistake, I don’t like LSU and I want to beat LSU to embarrassment….with that said, you gotta respect the tradition and intensity the team and their fans show. Great article.
ROLL TIDE!
Misdemeanor?
It was a misdemeanor because, in the fine Red Stick tradition of Huey Long, your cops looked the other way.
Heh
If only you knew how backwards that statement is.
I can’t claim any kind of insider status at LSU and I have no contacts within the program. But I have more than one inside connection to local law enforcement in my hometown. Some of the things they’ve passed along to me about that whole deal are nothing short of stunning, though not surprising if you know how things traditionally get done around LA.
I have no info to link, so I refrain from making a deal out of it on the InterWebz. But I’ll say that I was very surprised it turned out even this well for JJ, and that the stories and “evidence” must have been weaker than even any of us were guessing.
by MikeDeTiger on Oct 31, 2011 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Great article!
Funny how all the fans are still arguing and raising hell below one of the most objective fan articles I’ve ever read. That, coming from a Bama fan. And just think, this time next week, one group is going to be making excuses and the other is going to be gloating, obnoxious jerks. I damn sure hope I’m a jerk.
by Slash McGurkin on Oct 31, 2011 10:06 PM CDT reply actions
"I damn sure hope I’m a jerk."
being a Bama fan, I think that’s a given ;-)
Head coach Les Miles of the LSU Tigers leads his team in their usual pregame warmup song "Head, Sheauxlders, Knees, and Teauxs." -Spencer Hall
by andyj on Oct 31, 2011 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like the articles says, we’re winners. Just like you’re used to making excuses, haha.
by Slash McGurkin on Nov 1, 2011 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I hate/respect
LSU for the same reason, you guys are the only team that year after year can beat anybody. Also, like us, you guys like to hit an play physical football. So, in reality, I like watching you guys destroy other teams, but hate myself for do so…
Anyways, good luck to y’all and whomever wins I hope they rep the SEC well in the MNC.
Roll Tide!
In and of itself nothing matters. What matters is that nothing is in and of itself. Chuck K.
How to Piss Off a Bama Fan
Just talk and talk and talk. Eventually, they’ll say, “We’ve won 13 National Championships.” And now it’s over. Because you say, “name them.”
I’m sorry, but LSU has won two since I turned 21 and I blew them both out on Bourbon. How did you celebrate 92 & 09? Less fun? Yeah, I get it.
PS – 25,26,30,34,41,61,64,65,73,78,79,92.09, and a big bowl of shut the fuck up.
I was only seven or eight years old
but I remember the ’64 and ’65 Bama teams because there were 4 players on that team that I watched play several times when they were in high school. When I was nine they were all seniors on the undefeated ’66 Bama team. The blow out of Nebraska in the old Sugar Bowl was one for the memorie banks ( have it on DVD). No mythical national championship, though.
I celebrated the ‘92 win over Miami in Gelienkirchen, Germany. Not too many of them knew what made me so happy, but that didn’t make me any less happy. I saw that win coming a mile away (we played them in ‘89, and in ’92 we were clearly better than in ’89, and they clearly weren’t). In ‘92, Bama was a big favorite and Texas only hope was Colt McCoy and I didn’t think that was much of a hope (had he pulled it off I was prepared to congratulate him though). Still celebrating that one.
You know there in no mythical national championship at stake on Saturday. It’s bigger than that.
One team will prove it’s better than the other. THEN we’ll see who eats a big bowl of shut the fuck up.
by Boclive on Nov 1, 2011 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
and eventually a rival fan
will try to denigrate that claim as if doing so somehow magically makes all of them invalid.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
I always just chalked it up to Alabama education
numbers are hard and all.
/sorry weak counting smack is all I had off the top of my head.
nemo me impune lacessit
now ask yourself
do you really want to go there?
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Why any southern states
bring up trailer parks, education, hillbillies etc. when talking trash to each other is beyond me.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
by LSU Jonno on Nov 1, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yeah, this get's rec'd
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
we've gone 45-6 since that game
it’s helped us handle the pain of losing to the warhawks pretty good.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
by kleph on Nov 1, 2011 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Harvey Updike
Is a little different than me. I don’t much care what other teams do on days Alabama is not playing them. When Texas hung their hopes on the fragile arm of Colt McCoy in ‘09 I was looking in to see that game because if Colt McCoy had pulled it off THAT would have been something to see. If LSU beats Alabama on any given position on any given play and/or on the scoreboard at the end of the game it’s Alabama’s fault the same way it was Alabama’s fault when they couldn’t tackle Cam Newton or block Nick Fairley last year. If the competition is better than you then you have to raise the level of your play.
Alabama can be had. I’ve seen it in almost every game this year. Short fields on short kicks (not so much long returns). Two straight drives/scores for Arky. Two straight drives/scores for Tennessee. A long completion to Ole Miss.
Turnovers? Not so many. Net 1 and you’re 2 ahead of the average. So…
Your bread and butter is running the football? I am sorry for you. Have a backup plan.
If you are good against the run you will have to prove that again.
The mobile quarterback is your very best chance. He is also the one that beat them last year and he is the one that is in their heads. Plus I’d want the mobile quarterback option on the field as much as possible against this team. He has to be throwing it mostly, but he is the one.
I like Jarrett Lee. I liked him as a freshman when he was throwing all those picks. They weren’t his fault. He was consistently behind on the scoreboard and behind the chains – throwing over the middle deep. I’d rather defend against him than Jefferson, though. Jefferson is mobile.
I hope LSU plays their very best football Saturday. May their trick plays fail, though.
Roll Tide
Good write up Poseur.
What has been funny over the past few years reading the RBR blog is their view of Miles.
At its peak, i’d say 99% of Roll Bama Roll thought Miles to be a moron. It’s funny now watching them squirm in anxiety about how he’s turned this program into one of the Nation’s best (not that Saban hasn’t done the very same thing there, but just that it’s a surprise to them that Miles has done it here).
They still make fun of Miles, but only to take their minds off of their fear. The fear that Miles’ “wackiness” may be what throws the wrench in Saban’s “order”. LSU fans may be jealous of Bama’s wins, but make no mistake, Bama is scared of what LSU could do to them.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
This
They still make fun of Miles, but only to take their minds off of their fear.
Is just about every fanbase’s reaction to him. Fear, and not wanting to admit that maybe they judged the guy too quickly (and some of our own fans have that problem).
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
this times infinity
people are backing off of their Miles is lucky meme and into cover your ass position of I Meant He’s Lucky Because He’s a Risk Taker and The Kids Like Him.
A few more years of whipping ass and they might actually give him credit for being a great coach.
nemo me impune lacessit
Honestly...
I thought Les Miles was a goof….well, I still do think he is a goof. Obviously, the man can coach. He certainly has put together a great team this year.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
This year? Miles' record stands at 70-17
Saint Nick was 48-16. Miles is uh….miles beyond Saban.
Can he goof up or appear to be a goof? yes. But he almost always hires the best coordinators and does an excellent job of recruiting and then getting the most of out his kids. And those kids love him and play their ass off for him.
I will now await my fine from the SBNation offices regarding my pun to the head of a defenseless poster.
nemo me impune lacessit
Considering....
LSU was 4-7 and 3-8 the 2 years prior to Saban’s arrival in 2000, I would say Saban had i bit tougher coaching job, wouldn’t you?
Either way, I gave your goofy coach credit.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Considering the roster he inherited? No
Saban inherited approximately the same level of talent that Miles did.
Can we please put that red herring to bed/death/never to be mentioned again?
nemo me impune lacessit
This comment is so full of fail
that I am loudly guffawing.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
I would do you the favor of posting the talent Saban inherited
but you’re just a troll.
nemo me impune lacessit
Do you remember how that talent performed under Shula?
I do.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
I'm sorry I've completely lost what your point is
Assuming you ever had one. Is succeeding with “inherited” talent a sign that a coach is good? Or that he’s bad? Or are you just flip flopping from one to other depending on the coach – when Saban succeeds with “inherited” talent, it’s because he’s good; when Miles succeeds with “inherited” talent, it’s because he’s lucky?
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 1, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I didn't realize you guys were so sensitive about Miles
Apologies.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
You could learn a lot from your fellow Bama fans in this thread.

Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
i believe this post is about why LSU should hate Bama...
not saying trolling or outlandish remarks should be allowed, but dont be shocked when we come to defend our team/ coach.
Even though when i read this article it made me proud of my team/ tradition and gave me more respect for LSU..
Follow on twitter @thelyell
I don't have a problem with defending a coach
And I didn’t attack Saban…there’s a difference between a good give-and-take (which is the overwhelming majority of what we see here and I think both sites should be proud), and trolling.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
ill admit
yesterday I was looking for a fight..(came from a some what odd work day) Not so much today.
And sometimes its hard not to overract when you read harsh comments about your team and some general comments about the fanbase (yourself)
Follow on twitter @thelyell
Neaux
Popular misconception. DiNardo couldn’t coach his way out of a paper bag, but he could recruit pretty well. Not as well as what Saban and Miles would later do, but well. Lost in the shuffle of how Saban turned our program around (and he deserves his fair share of credit), DiNardo left him with over 20 guys who would play in the NFL.
True story.
Sounds good to me...
I’m not very good at arguing over who has the better coach anyways. Furthermore I don’t care. We both have good coaches.
Refresh my memory here – auburn game…LSU could have easily kicked a fg to tie, but instead chooses to throw a pass to the back of the endzone as time runs out to win the game. What year was that?
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually, time did not run out ... there was plenty of time to run that play.
What’s your point? We beat Auburn. You hate Auburn. Why are you hating on our beating your enemy.
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Dude...
Not hating at all….loving even. I loved the outcome of that game. Did I say I loved it? Yep – I loved it.
I bring it up because it is a microcosm of Miles’ coaching style. While certainly not orthodox, it’s proven successful. I’ve said many times over the years – Miles is the luckiest coach on the face of the earth. And, in some case he is very lucky. That play in particular was a huge gamble. It paid off. I actually kinda like his coaching style. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t trade Saban for him. But, I like the calls he makes sometimes.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Watch how you use that luck word around here
The homies don’t like it.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
How exactly was it a "huge gamble" to take a shot at the endzone before relying on the FG to win it?
?
Maybe not huge, but a gamble nonetheless
Time could have expired…the ball couldve been intercepted..etc. It was a gamble. FG is the safer call. That’s all I’m saying.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Time could have expired?
Yeah, I guess. IF we were disorganized in the huddle and took too long to get to the line, and IF the receiver had bobbled the ball momentarity, and IF the referee let a couple of extra seconds tick off before stopping the clock . . . oh, wait; ALL OF THAT HAPPENED, and we still had time left after the play.
As for the INT, that’s why it’s called a “shot”; if you try to run it, there could be a fumble. If you go for the field goal, you could bobble the snap (or miss the kick). There is no “safe” play there; that’s why almost no coach would pass on another shot at the endzone with 30 seconds left to risk a FG.
Thanks...
Just went back and watched it on youtube…you were right. Damnit. I guess it wasn’t that risky at all.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
LSU could have missed a field goal too
The ironic thing is, if the FG had missed, no one would have criticized Miles -it’d have been Colt David’s fault. So if he’d made the “safe” call but lost, Miles would have been above criticism. But he made a call that – and I can’t stress this enough – won the game for the Tigers, and people are still bashing him for it almost five years later.
It’s a question of whether you want to coach to win, or coach to avoid criticism from the chattering classes. The chattering classes (ie, blog commenters, ESPN talking heads) would prefer you do the latter. I have a lot of respect for both Miles and Saban in that they’re more concerned with the former.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 1, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
To be clear....
I’m not bashing the call or Miles.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
That was the year never
What you described never happened. There was time left to kick the field goal after the touchdown play, and the FG would still have won it.
Like I said....
refresh my memory. Thanks.
My point being I liked the call. Risky as hell…sure. 99.9% of coaches would not have called it. Plus, it was awesome to see the shock on auburn’s faces and the agony of defeat.
Do I fear Miles like some have mentioned above? I wouldn’t say fear. But, there is definately an element to the game that he is unpredictable, and that definately gives LSU an edge in any game – including this one.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually, almost every coach would have done something similar
The only remotely notable thing about the play (aside from it working and being a game-winner) was the fact that just about everything you could reasonably anticipate going wrong from a time standpoint did go wrong, resulting in the play ending with just 1 second left (rather than the 10 or so that should have been). That made it seem much more dramatic than it actually was.
Ok, I see.
Like I said, my recollection is foggy at best. I just remember thinking that without a doubt LSU would kick the fg.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
our kicker had been in a slump as well
I think he missed 2 from similar range in the game and the previous against kentucky.
Ok.
2007. I just went back and watched the play on youtube. Ya’ll were right…30 seconds on the clock. I guess it wasn’t as much of a gamble as I thought. So maybe I was giving ole Les too much credit for that one ;-)
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
What's funny to me
is that of all the actually zany, risky, and downright boneheaded plays/moves Miles has made, THAT is the one so many people point to as an example of his incompetence even though it is one of the more routine and conventional calls he’s made in a big situation like that.
The call was routine
the time it took to start was not. I think at some point Les actually said they were supposed to snap the ball with 15 seconds left – instead of the 9 or 10 that it actually was.
people forget - Colt David
wasn’t a good kicker that year. Les plays to win – rather than to not lose.
I've always pinned the amount of time that play took more on Matt Flynn honestly.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
pre snap Billy? THat's what I've always thought.
The play itself took about 6 seconds – it’s just that the clock manager let 8 or 9 tick off.
Yeah, pre-snap
I mean the play was in the huddle with a good amount of time left, and what I remember thinking was “why aren’t they (and by they, I mean the players) actually lining up.” With a 5th-year senior QB, I don’t put that on coaching.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
I blame it on Crowton
Just to be safe. Heck, I blame everything on Crowton.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 1, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, I remember screaming at flynn
to get the play going.
To be clear...
I wasn’t pointing it out as an example of incompetence…I was pointing it out as a well-timed risk – which it turned out not to be.
Maybe that one sticks out in my mind because it was an auburn defeat…and I happen to love those.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
You're wrong though.
Statistically, it was the least risky decision.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
Huntsville I see....
I was born and raised there.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Nice area
Crappy food. It’s grown on me though (the area, not the food).
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
Yeah, it's ok.
I’m sure you’ve tried Wings off of Airport Rd…a can eat a plate or two of those cheesy fries.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Yup.
Good place. Beauregards is good too. For my money it doesn’t get better than Hooter’s though.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
One of my requests for spending wedding gift money
Was to buy a deep fryer. My wife was like “we don’t need one.” My answer “yeah, but then we could make our own WINGS.”
She gave in.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Word.
Oddly enough…I started making all of my wings on the grill after reading the tailgate food posts on…RBR.
If you’ve never tried it…do. Healthier than frying, with a better taste than baking. It’s a good compromise.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
I'll have to try that
I do plan on picking the cooking posts back up eventually. Just been hard to find the time to cook and really chronicle what I’m doing.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Word.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
Little Rosie's
Is a good place too. Kind of a unique place. A step above fast food. I agree with you though – eating in Huntsville, not a lot of great choices. I’m a little too old for it now (plus I have kids), but back in the day I thought the night life sucked in Huntsville as well.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Um...Nightlife hasn't changed...Still blows
Rosie’s is really good. One of my all time favorite mexican places. Right up there with Ninfa’s (so you LSU fans know its good). Although there is no equivalent to Shrimp Acapulco at Rosie’s.
We have a Ruth’s Chris, a few local BBQ places that are money, Rosie’s, and that’s it…If I moved away from Huntsville, there would literally be no food item that I “craved” because I couldn’t get something equivalent or better elsewhere.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
Speaking of BBQ
Thomas’ on 72 – the bomb. Family came up to visit us this last weekend from Huntsville, I had them stop and pick up 3 lbs for us.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 1, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
thread officially hijacked.
I’ve lived here 6 years now and have never tried it. I know exactly what you’re talking about though. Always pass by on the way to Lowes, or the Depot…
It’s a love/hate thing around here. People either swear by it or hate it. You’ve definitely piqued my interest though. Sounds like I have dinner plans one night this week.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
Tortoras is awesome
But I like West Main in Houma, LA better.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
Fine, then we'll go with the 9-3 AFTER he rebuilt LSU
Still behind Miles . . . even including the years Miles had to clean up Saban’s mess.
At LSU —
Miles with Saban-recruited players on the roster: 79.2% win rate
Miles with no Saban-recruited players on the roster: 90.5% win rate
Saban with DiNardo-recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
Saban with all Saban recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
/stattrollingengaged
That's a quality troll right there
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 1, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
You really think Miles is THAT much better than Saban?
If you think he’s better then that’s fine and everybody has their opinions, but if Les was “miles” ahead then don’t you think he’d have a better record against Saban?
And I’ll echo the folks who say Saban has had the tougher coaching jobs. Whether LSU had a lot of talent when Saban got there I don’t know, but the program was in shambles. It takes more than talent to win games. Go down the list in any given year of teams that have top 10 recruiting classes and see which of those teams are perennially in the top 10. The 2 lists don’t always overlap. It takes both great talent and great coaching to build a great program. See Auburn this year. They’ve had some pretty good recruiting classes the last few years and yet they are lucky to have won as many games as they have. It takes more than talent to play good football.
When you are turning a program around you have to reshape attitudes, teach new systems, and rebuild strength and conditioning and all of those things take time. When Saban took over at Bama he had to deal with a bunch of Seniors who were used to doing it their own way and wouldn’t fall in line. We suffered for that.
Rebuilding programs is not as easy as taking over programs that have been well run. Mike Gundy has won more games at OK St than Miles did. Do you think Gundy is better than Miles because Gundy came into a program with an already solid foundation?
I don't think that anybody's saying either one is "that much better."
And that’s the point.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Then are there so many more coaches that win National Championships than there are coaches who win two?
If building is so much harder than maintaining, why do so few of them get #2?
If I’m building (or rebuilding) a program, Saban is the top name on my list for sure. But if I’ve already got a championship caliber program and am looking for someone to maintain and sustain that level, I’m not so sure. I mean, 9-3 and 10-3 post-National Championship isn’t exactly bad, but does it really prove an ability to maintain? This year could finally be the year Saban breaks through in terms of proven ability to sustain excellence.
Or it might not.
At LSU —
Miles with Saban-recruited players on the roster: 79.2% win rate
Miles with no Saban-recruited players on the roster: 90.5% win rate
Saban with DiNardo-recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
Saban with all Saban recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
Crap, make that "why are there"
Grrr. Edit function?
At LSU —
Miles with Saban-recruited players on the roster: 79.2% win rate
Miles with no Saban-recruited players on the roster: 90.5% win rate
Saban with DiNardo-recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
Saban with all Saban recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
Miles inherited a "championship caliber program".
You’re welcome. -Saban.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 2, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Saban inherited some pretty good players
At both of his last two jobs.
LSU and Alabama have always had talent.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 2, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
And Saban took that "championship caliber program" to 9-3
Whatever credit Saban gets for building it, Miles has done more with it than Saban did. Once he’s reached the mountaintop, Saban is a combined 19-6 (27-6 counting so far this season). Simply put, he’s a proven builder but not yet a proven sustainer. They are two very different roles, and both are very difficult. Very, VERY few cocahes have ever been able to do both.
At LSU —
Miles with Saban-recruited players on the roster: 79.2% win rate
Miles with no Saban-recruited players on the roster: 90.5% win rate
Saban with DiNardo-recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
Saban with all Saban recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
I agree with you.
I was just trying to ruffle ya’lls feathers, you know, it being game week and all.
To your point, while at Bama, Saban has gone 7-6, 12-2, 14-0, 10-3, and currently 8-0. I’ll take it – considering the level of competition in the SEC on a year in and year out basis, although admittidly, the SEC is a tad weaker this year in that regard.
Bottom line, we both have great coaches. It’s probably silly to argue over which is better. Honestly, I never considered Miles a great coach. Maybe I listened to all the “he inherited Saban’s program” a little too much. The fact is he’s coaching his (Miles’) players and they are one of (if not the, we’ll find out) best teams in the country. He has established himself as an elite coach, no doubt about it.
Geez, is it Saturday yet????
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
by nashvillebama on Nov 2, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, Saban has already won 2.
One at LSU, a feat that no one else had accomplished in what 50 years prior? I’d say that that is significant.
And now he has another at Bama, which is less significant given our history and name recognition as an elite program, but nonetheless impressive.
I don’t think it is fair to say that Saban has not sustained success. His stops at LSU and Bama have both been very accomplished. His tenures as head coach have only lasted a maximum of 5 years so far though. I’ll be surprised if he isn’t at Bama a little longer than that though. If Saban all of a sudden takes a dive next year then it would be fair to say he doesn’t sustain success, but I don’t see any reason that would happen.
I still stand by the idea that building is harder than maintaining. I don’t see any reason it wouldn’t be. Building an elite program where one has never existed before has never proven easy, but maintaining one when you have achieved the perception of successful is just the nature of things. It doesn’t mean that maintaining a program is the easiest thing in the world, but I would say it is “easier.”
He has duplicated his personal success, but not sustained a program's success
As pointed out before, once he gets a team to the chamionship, he has yet to lead a post-championship program to less than 3 losses. Once he got LSU to the mountaintop, he took that “championship caliber program” to a 9-3 record. Miles took over that same program and went 11-2 (post-Katrina), 11-2 and back to the National Championship with 12-2. At Bama, once Saban won y’all’s championship, he took your once-again “championship caliber” program to a 10-3 mark. This year he will (most likely) lead a program that has already been built up to the level to better than 10-3 season for the first time in his career after failing twice before.
maintaining one when you have achieved the perception of successful is just the nature of things
Is that why Stallings won so many championships after ‘92? And why Bob Stoops is so highly respected for winning multiple championships since 2000? Urban Meyer, Bobby Bowden, JoePa, Tom Osborne, Dennis Erickson . . . since the Bear retired, that’s it (as far as I can tell). That’s all the guys who have won a championship with a program, and then brought that program back to win another one. And that’s pretty much the list of guys who’ve taken championship level teams back to win the school another championship, minus one: Les Miles (maybe Jimmy Johnson; can’t really remember what Miami was like between Schnellie’s and Johnson’s championship seasons).
At LSU —
Miles with Saban-recruited players on the roster: 79.2% win rate
Miles with no Saban-recruited players on the roster: 90.5% win rate
Saban with DiNardo-recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
Saban with all Saban recruited players on the roster: 75.0% win rate
It's not just us, sparky
EVERYBODY thinks Miles is fruitcake.
A very lucky fruitcake, but a fruitcake nonetheless.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
If calling him lucky gives you comfort
By all means, get yourself through the day. And then go home and pray you could ever be as ‘lucky’ as him.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
You gotta admit
Some of those late game time management issues could’ve easily worked against him, as well as the Tennessee game last year, and the perfect bounce on the over the shoulder fake fg.
Must be living right.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Every coach gets lucky
You don’t win 70 games in 6 and a half seasons on luck alone. That’s a fact.
But again, if you need to comfort yourself by insulting the man, go ahead. Everybody has their own reaction to fear.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
I know it's not all luck
but he could easily have lost a half dozen of those games if the luck was “bad”.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
So could every coach
Not a difficult concept to grasp.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
And to think
someone upthread claimed that Bama fans had poor memories regarding negative history…
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Yes, you've clearly showed a good grasp on memory.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
I'm sure you don't remember anything lucky EVER happening
To the Tide, right?
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
like 2 blocked field goals against UT?
Was that luck or great play? I personally think it was a pair of great plays, but based on the analysis above, I guess you would call it luck.
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I attribute it to the putrid TN kicking game
and luck.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
So we agree then
Every coach has their lucky breaks.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I never said they didn't.
Miles just had a haphazard look of disarray at times.
But you still won-why so sensitive?
I respect Miles as a coach: he is a winner. Sometimes need a translator for his press conferences, but that is another matter.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Sensitive?
I’m not the one who came here to tell us how LSU’s coach is a “fruitcake.”
But again, everybody has their own reactions to fear.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
You can call Saban a midget if you want
Makes me laugh.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Why would I do that?
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't need to make myself feel better by insulting your coach.
Especially with something that unoriginal.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
You're not having fun with this game
are you?
It ain’t life and death.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
I'm having a lot of fun
I just don’t troll people.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Not trying to troll, dude
I made a comment and you bitchslapped me. Didn’t know it was your time of the month.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Yeah, that's what happened.
You:
It’s not just us, sparky
EVERYBODY thinks Miles is fruitcake.
The response:
If calling him lucky gives you comfort
By all means, get yourself through the day. And then go home and pray you could ever be as ‘lucky’ as him.
Obvious troll is obvious. Y
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Finally, common ground.
Now, let’s get back to fomenting some real hate between the fan bases.
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Our lucky coach is
2 and 2 against your genius. So, our coach is either INCREDIBLY lucky, or your genius is INCREDIBLY unlucky.
There was a lot of “bad” luck in the games you reference as well. The difference between a coach being “unlucky” or “lucky” is to good coach overcomes the bad luck with a preparation and coaching (or luck, as you guys call it).
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 1, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Look, guys
We’re not the ones that nicknamed him the mad hatter.
And he was your genius before he was ours.
Thanks for that.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Actually Reece Davis, and Alabama grad, came up with that one
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Like Saban's luck . . .
Vs. Tennessee ’09, Oregon State kicker (who won the GROZA that year) missing FOUR extra points in ’04, hail mary to beat UL-M in ’07 (oh, wait . . .)
I gotta admit nothing
LSU outgained UT and UF by near 2 to 1 margins in those games and had some terrible bounces which even made those games close. Getting a lucky bounce at the end doesn’t negate the 59 minutes of luck the other team had to make it close. It’s hard to say, watching the whole games, that either were “unjust” results.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
by Poseur on Nov 1, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
This
In a number of Miles’ close “lucky” wins we had beaten the tar out of the other team and they had been tremendously lucky earlier in the game. It’s the nature of the beast and ESPN (wait, are those the same?) the people focus on the last 30 seconds of the game.
Rec'd
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
I'll give you two quotes. Guess which program each came from
Quote A: "There are times as the coach that you enjoy the enthusiasm of your team, " ____ said. “If you can’t recognize youth, happiness and the want to play and if that doesn’t make you smile, for me that is not right. We get up early as coaches and go in early and work until late. At some point in time, it is time to play. Playing denotes something that you need to do, and at some point, it needs to be fun.”
Quote B: “At [university], we are not about fun.”
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 1, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Ridiculously revisionist slant you guys are taking RE Miles.
Came over to embrace the hype and just came across this and had to weigh in: I cannot let these comments slide on Miles. Don’t make this out like it was just Bama fans making fun of Miles when he came to LSU. LSU fans were the worst at trashing him!!! I always thought Miles was a good dude and it was to the point where I actually felt sorry for him as I anticipated you guys just eating him alive. I have a solid six of my best friends who went to LSU, and they absolutely trashed the guy every chance they got until about last year, lightheartedly teasing that Saban hated Bama, was coming back to LSU, etc. It was even worse on the message boards, so do not even try to make it sound like you guys have been behind him since he arrived in BR.
The truth of the matter is, I think, is that both fanbases were right. I do think he was in over his head his first couple years at LSU. Over and over you saw an incredibly talented LSU in situations they didn’t need to be in, where they needed some ridiculous gamble/ miracle to win a game that talent alone should have won by halftime. The time management miscues? You guys crushed him over all of this. Anyway, I think he has really grown into his own shoes and become an elite SEC coach, but please don’t be delusional enough to imply LSU stood behind their guy while everyone else trashed him, and how right LSU was all the time.
thank you for revising how I acted and talked
I had no idea my memories of my actions and some friends actions were completely wrong.
I will give you that some LSU fans were assholes. Hell, they are still assholes about him. You won’t find me flying the flag for the LSU fanbase as a whole (cepting that we party better than those smug assholes at Oxford who think they’ve never lost a party).
nemo me impune lacessit
Fair enough, but....
Fair enough response. Believe it or not, I intended to add a sentence addressing exactly this, pointing out that I obviously cannot presume to know how anyone here specifically felt.
With that being said, I think you must admit that this was more than a case of ‘part of the fanbase’ like we always use when a vocal minority is acting like idiots. Would you not agree that the majority of the LSU fanbase was at least marginally dissatisfied with Miles, and thought that he was maybe a little over his head, his first few years? If we cannot agree on that point I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Anyway, this isn’t even a slam of LSU. I think he left most people in this country wondering in some of those just bizarre games. And it’s not a slam on Miles either- I love the guy. Like I said I think he has really grown into a top tier coach, and he is a likeable guy.
No, not his first few years
Many were questioning the hire when he was first announced, and many more jumped on the bandwagon after the Tennessee game (idiots, and many of them have been too stubborn to ever get off). But after 11-2, 11-2 and (especially) 12-2 National Champs, the vast majority of the LSU fanbase was solidly on Miles side. It wasn’t until 8-5/9-4 that the naysayers became a truly significant portion (in terms of actual numbers). And even then, it was a minority by a pretty significant margin (imo).
to be fair
after the Ole Miss debacle w/ the clock problem, many were foaming at the mouth. If i would say as much as 50% of the fan base by my recollection.
Thanks
Thanks Zandor. That’s all I was trying to say, that I think those on here trying to paint a picture where (most) Alabama fans incorrectly slammed Miles while (most) LSU fans defended him are being extremely untruthful to both themselves and the rest of this board.
Doesn’t matter now, though, does it? Both fanbases appear to be happy with their coach and both programs are rolling. Roll Tide and may the better team win Saturday!
Immediately afterwards, maybe so
but after the initial rage wore off, I seriously doubt close to 50% actually wanted him gone. As for “marginally dissatisfied”, I don’t know how to quantify that. There are Bama fans I know who were “marginally disatisfied” with Saban last year.
Get ready for a warning. :-)
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
“I do think he was in over his head his first couple years at LSU.”
I will disagree with this. Miles’ performance during the 2005 season was the best coaching job I have ever personally witnessed by any LSU coach, during any year. What he did under those circumstances, in his first year on the job, was nothing short of remarkable.
Miles’ major gaffes actually came a little later, specifically the two hollow classes including no offensive line recruits, which led to disastrous offensive performances during the 2008 and (especially) 2009 seasons. He also made a terrible call with the co-defensive coordinators in ’08.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 1, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
the oline issue
is the underreported story on the team in those years – it wasn’t just losing Perilloux – it was a lousy offensive line that hurt the team.
And that
I blame on Stacy Searels mostly (who is generally well thought of by a lot of people, but not by me). His last couple of recruiting classes with Saban and Miles had a lot of washouts.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I have a similar complaint
With Bo Pelini and LSU’s defensive recruiting his last two years as well.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Billy
Off topic… I’ve had this idea for a while now…maybe it doesn’t merit discussion during such an exciting season…
You should do a post on our coaching staff. It seems that we not only have a good bunch of guys, but most of them will be staying in their current positions for a while.
Chavis at DC is not a threat to move on. And Krags will likely be at LSU for a while in some capacity. Given the success of the offense this year, I’d say it’s unlikely that we try to replace Stud, but at the same time you’ve got to wonder how hot of a commodity he really is?
it seems like we’ll have our staff in tact for a while.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
I just like to wait and do those sorts of things after the season.
Still a long way to go.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Word.
It just seems out of the ordinary to have such a good staff that will likely not be trying to move on to HC positions.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
I think a few of them may move on eventually
But this offseason should be fairly quiet in that regard. I may rehash the coach hiring guide once that carousel gets up and going again though, just for other fans.
/staythefuckawayfromFrankWilsonTulane
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Kragthorpe is a very good coach
But he had a head coaching opportunity at Louisville and it didn’t work out. You don’t see a lot of failed 1st time head coaches get another shot unless it’s at a lower level.
Some guys just aren’t cut out to be a head coach, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t good.
We're talking more the other assistants
Not Kragthorpe. The guy has Parkinson’s Disease as well, we’re just hoping his health is good enough to stick around as an assistant for a while.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
Ask UGA fans about Searels and his great Oline coaching ability...
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
YUP.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
i agree Billy
Searels dissapointed. Isn’t he at UGA now?
thread read fail
hadn’t gone this far down. Yep, he’s been dissapointing there too.
O LINE
It was staggeringly bad in 2008. Line play doesn’t grab headlines, but it absolutely wins or loses games. Look at how our running game has looked without Lonergan in there.
I’m sure this will bring out the oversigning trolls, but LSU had devastating attrition on the lines for a few years. It clearly hurt the program.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
You mean 2009 right?
In 2008 we had a very legit running game. Not sure what kind of pressure we let get to the QB’s but I don’t remember them running for their life.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
this is also one of the biggest reasons for alabama's
offensive success this season. there were a lot of questions about the specific roles people would play in the OL going into 2011 and many of the offensive problems in the Kent State and North Texas games were due to experimenting with different people in different spots. but the group the coaching staff settled on has performed very well since then.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
OL recruiting can be very tough
It only takes a few players washing out for a team to suddenly be a lot thinner than a coaching staff is comfortable with. In LSU’s case, they basically had 2 recruiting classes worth of guys fail to pan out (or transfer to other programs when they didn’t play early).
That led to the 09 line, which was one of the worst in recent school history.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
miles does some crazy stuff that has earned him a reputation
as a loose cannon. but anyone who has watched his career stretching back to oklahoma state knows he’s a coach who competes at the highest level of the sport. you don’t put together that long a resume on luck and happy thoughts alone.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
Yup
But that’s clearly pretty hard for at least one poster in this thread to acknowledge.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Not me
I already acknowledged as much on this thread. It’s possible “thatthang” expressed what I was saying much more clearly and with more evidence.
I never said he was all about luck.
Wasn’t expecting such defensiveness, but what the heck, it’s your house.
Apologies, all.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Do I really have to refer to your first comment again?
I would think the trollish nature of it would be pretty obvious by now. If you didn’t mean it to be, that’s fine. But you could have cut that off a dozen comments back and didn’t.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, dude.
I thought it was a pretty harmless comment. I didn’t know anybody was gonna take it personally.
But, like I said, it’s your house.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
I still think Miles is goofy.
I don’t say it out of fear. I don’t fear any team or any coach. There are many good coaches out there who have the ability to beat Bama/Saban on any given day and Miles is one of those coaches, but Miles is still goofy nonetheless.
Given many of the things he has said and done I don’t really know how anyone comes to any other conclusion. If Miles was our coach I would say the same thing. How many of your coaches in high school were a little goofy or crazy or did something stupid from time to time? It’s not like Miles is the only goofy coach out there.
I think the only thing that any of this proves is that you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to be a good football coach.
Growing up in Oklahoma
and with family from both Us, I reckon you gotta give OkSU the insecurity crown. Especially since Les came here. I’m pulling for the Pokes to win out.
by CeeDave on Nov 1, 2011 8:24 AM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
the best reason to hate bama
The best reason to hate Alabama is they openly choose to ignore any period of time they weren’t successful.
I'll never forget the Mike Dubose loss to Houston Nutt
at Arkansas. That Alabama team quit. I regard the Dubose years as the worst in the last fifty years.
Only thing that really hurt us under Mike Shula was play-calling. He may have had other faults but if he could have called a counter or a draw at the appropriate time he could have won a lot more games than he won.
I only go back to ’61 personally. What period of failure am I missing?
Amen...
It seemed as if the year Langham got busted kicked of a series of pain and suffering ushered in with the Dubose era. That was ground zero for us and the ripple effect took more than a decade to resolve.
Nightmare. Now my loathing of Tennessee far outweighs any other team. Therefore I do find some satisfaction of the situation they are currently in as we had to live through that and now get to witness them going through a football season knowing that there’s a 95% probability they will lose to a “good” SEC team. Pure sweetness.
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
if you would like to discuss the ears whitworth era
we’d be more than glad to oblige you. but you’ll have to humor us with tales of dinardo’s reign in baton rouge in return.
Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All
long as we don't discuss He Who Must Not Be Named
after that it’s pistols at dawn.
nemo me impune lacessit
Nicely done, Poseur.
Rather than irritate me, you’ve reminded me how good it is to be a Bama fan, and also reminded me of what I like about LSU. Here’s to a battle for the ages on Saturday.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"
-Adam Savage
Very nice post!!
This game has created that gut wrenching uncertainty that comes with two very good teams with very little weakness.
Both play the same style, have great coaches and great athletes. It’s just a matter of who flinches first and then it’s over. I don’t see this being a rally from behind to win it type of game.
One team (either a coaching call or lack of execution on one big play) is going to make a mistake and that’s it. Game over. I just hope it’s not us.
Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.
TROLLZ
I’ve gotten to go to two games in Death Valley in the post-Saban era—and man, were they awesome. One Bama won, one LSU won. The fans were awesome in both.
Of course, after the one where Bama won, a GIANT bro in a yeller Polo came at me, and my LSU friends had to be like “no! No! No hitting!”
(But I love the dedication).
Never quit. It is the easiest cop-out in the world.
Speaking of GIANT
Has anybody seen who is this week’s Gameday guess picker? Hint: he’s black ops.

Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 1, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
this Bama fan loves LSU - Best Gameday/Gamenight Atmosphere on Earth
I love Bama more because it is in my blood, born and raised in Ttown and my father played for Bama. I always root for the Tigers except when we play one another. I’m still wallowing in the afterglow of last week’s great beatdown over Audumb. I do NOT obsess over any championship other than the one currently under contention. I loved Coach Bryant and wept like a baby, standing on the curb at BDS as his funeral went by, one last bus ride up to Birmingham. I went to the LSU/Auburn game in BR after Dinardo had lobbied successfully for the return of the white home jerseys – what a great game that LSU won that night. And there is one very special thing LSU has that Bama never will, and I would trade all the houndstooth in Tuscaloosa for one, no make that two days in Gulf Shores with . . . Those glorious Golden Girls! Oh, yeah, and your band kicks our band’s ass more often than not, but we’re getting better. Good luck Tigahs other than Saturday.
Well, whaddayaknow? It IS Saturday!
by Grampaw Fug on Nov 1, 2011 10:47 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Good Read
im a bama fan and i enjoyed reading that good job!
I'm amazed...
At how much this thread has blown up between LSU and Bama fans. I’m not reading through all of it by no means but this is what this week is all about! Enjoy it fellas, and GEAUX TIGERS
Missed?
This thing keeps growing…
2011 LSU Accolades:
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
Alabama is gonna kick y'alls sorry asses.
That is all.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
LSU Fans
Love this: “Would I rather be a Bama fan? Of course not. LSU is just boatloads more fun. Alabama is respectable, dignified. They are college football royalty. We’re completely unhinged psychopaths. In the SEC Family, we’re the crazy drunk uncle. Everybody loves that guy, so long as he only trashes somebody else’s house. Well, we’re coming to trash Alabama’s house this week. Hide the china.”
Great article! Can’t wait for the game!
AWFUL
Seriously, I was okay with this article until these two lines… “Alabama is respectable, dignified. They are college football royalty.” Are you serious? I want the author of this article to walk around Bryant-Denny stadium ALONE after the game (win or lose) if you think Alabama is respectable and dignified. In 2005, Alabama fans told me prior to the game that “the Tide is going to finish what Katrina started!” That would be like me going up to Bama fans this year and telling them, “the Tigers are going to finish why the tornado started!” Two years ago , my wife and I were nearly attacked by an angry mob. Not to mention, the team itself has a long tradition of cheating and NCAA violations. Also, you make no mention that LSU has an 8-3 record against Alabama since 2000. So say it how it is, they have a long and respectful tradition of winning, they have a storied football history that is envied nationwide, winning means a lot to the Alabama community etc. but words like ‘respectable’, ‘dignified’, ‘class’, ‘royalty’ should never be used to describe that team, those fans, and that University. But it’s a great article to inflate the typical and already overly-inflated Alabama fan’s ego. Cmon, is this really Paul Finebaum writing this article under a different alias? Get real – ‘LSU fan’.
This is your first comment?
Interesting.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
There is only one.....BAMA!!!
“I don’t want to be Alabama. I want to beat Alabama. For all of our differences, we’re really not that different. We both want the same thing, but only one of us can be the SEC Champions. "….. Well thank you for that article… however I am Alabama, I enjoy being Alabama and yes there can only be one SEC Champ… its okay LSU…. we got this one… but thanks for playing Roll Tide!!!
by christyjanewoodruff on Nov 3, 2011 3:56 PM CDT reply actions

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