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LSU vs. Alabama: An Interview with Roll Bama Roll

Time for the hype to end and to start takin' care o'bidness. As such, Kleph of Roll Bama Roll was good enough to answer a couple of questions for a little mid-week snack. We'll return the favor over there sometime later this week.

1.       For a long time, Alabama played some of its biggest games in Birmingham at Legion Field - is this the biggest game Bryant-Denny Stadium has ever hosted?

The fact that so many of Alabama's premier games have taken place in Birmingham certainly matters. Until the 1998 expansion of that boosted capacity at Bryant-Denny Stadium to 83,818, Legion Field was the larger venue and, by default, hosted bigger games. In fact the first Iron Bowl in Tuscaloosa didn't come to pass until 2000.

In fact, Saturday's game will be the ninth time in the history of Bryant-Denny Stadium between teams ranked in the top 10. On two occasions, in 2009 and 2005, that other team was LSU. This year's Tigers are the second No. 1 team to play Alabama in Tuscaloosa. The first was Oklahoma in 2003 (the Sooners won, 20-13).

Yet, qualifying this game due to its location is gilding the lily a little bit. It is certainly arguable that this is one of the biggest regular season games Alabama has ever played. The Crimson Tide has played in six No. 1 vs. No. 2 games, although never during the regular season much less at Bryant-Denny Stadium.

2.      These two teams are near mirror-images of one another, with dominant defenses and offenses that specialize in pounding the other team into submission. What are the matchups you see as leaning one way or the other?

Both defenses are justifiably lauded and both offenses are probably unfairly overlooked to a certain extent. The quality of play on both sides of the ball is as likely as good as either team has produced in the past five years and that's no mean statement when you start counting the crystal footballs between them.

Alabama has the edge in just about all the major statistical categories but that slim advantage may be offset by the parity of the two. Games between teams this close tend to be determined by things such as  turnovers and special teams. LSU has a slight edge in the former and probably a substantial one in the latter (particularly in terms of punting).

That leave the last big intangible, coaching. And while I know LSU fans embrace the chaotic insanity that can be a Les Miles-coached contest, I have to believe the nothing-is-too-small-to-be-overlooked approach is the right one to pull out a win in a game like this.

3.       The Tide have had a few slow starts this season. While they've proven to ultimately be minor hiccups, what has been the culprit behind them?

One big reason is most teams seem to be betting their best chance is to try get a haymaker punch right from the start. The logic being that by jumping out ahead on the scoreboard will force the offense to play catch-up instead of grind-it-out ball. The problem with that has been that nobody's been able to put up enough points to make it a real challenge. The defense clamps down and the offense just keeps on doing what it does.

But certainly some of it is a matter of is intensity. This Tide team is functioning at a level far above most of the competition and has occasionally played down to its opponent at the start. Last season, there were problems breaking out of that lethargy and it proved costly. We got away with it against Arkansas put paid the price versus South Carolina. Down the stretch, it proved to be brutal. We haven't seen anything like that this season.

4.      Alabama's defense has been nigh-invulnerable this season. Is there any Kryptonite out there that you can see?

Is there a magic bullet to beat this defense? No. The hallmark of this squad has been playing error-free assignment football. 

This isn't to say there aren't strategies that could prove effective. Running up the middle ain't a pretty option but a team with speed in the backfield could move the chains with some regularity if they can make it to the outside. 

Deep passes - especially on third down - are the kiss of death against any Saban secondary. And the speed of the pass rush is downright terrifying. Sacks aren't as much as you might expect but they've got an MO of putting QBs out of the game. Short pass routes to eat up the field five yards at the time have shown promise, but you can't run a whole drive on slants alone.

If there is a key to beating this defense it has to be having your offensive line to win the battle in the trenches. And nobody's found a way to do that against Alabama this year. 

 

Don’t forget to show support for your favorite coach by voting him as the 2011 Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year at www.coachoftheyear.com

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I think one of the reasons this game is intriguing is the fact that neither team (and I think this has been true of these teams in the last few years) has faced/will face another team with athletes that match their own across the board.

I don’t think Bama fans will have to worry about playing down to their opponent nor do LSU fans have to worry about our players putting on cruise control (see to some extent Oregon and WVU second halves) – they all seem to rise to this occasion. All the cliches will apply – who wants it more, win in the trenches, TOs could decide the game…

I think Kleph hints at what LSU is going to need and that is a few big plays on offense, whether its Randle or possibly Shepard getting loose – traversing the whole field in small bits vs. Bama will be tough.

Is it Saturday yet?

by dallaslsu on Nov 2, 2011 9:32 AM CDT reply actions  

Wow. What a homer.

Guess we shouldn’t make the trip. This guy really believes in his team.

nemo me impune lacessit

by LSUJOSHUA on Nov 2, 2011 9:36 AM CDT reply actions  

well

he does write for their blog. I’m not sure I believe their defense is impenetrable but their LBs are scary good.

If we have any success running the ball I feel good about our chances. I assume Lonergan is playing at or near 100%? (please say yes)

On the other side of the ball I always feared Ingram more than Richardson. TRich has not had success against us and last year we hurt him. I could be in homer mode myself but most of the big runs I see from TRich come from giant holes. We are going to see if he can move laterally and find the holes Saturday. Thats why Ingram had great success against us, he was so quick laterally.

by dallaslsu on Nov 2, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sure sounds like a homer to me
Alabama has the edge in just about all the major statistical categories but that slim advantage may be offset by the parity of the two. Games between teams this close tend to be determined by things such as turnovers and special teams. LSU has a slight edge in the former and probably a substantial one in the latter (particularly in terms of punting).

Alabama only has a slim advantage is stats, but LSU has more advantages in the things he says will determine the game. Yep that’s homer alright.

Deep passes – especially on third down – are the kiss of death against any Saban secondary…Short pass routes to eat up the field five yards at the time have shown promise, but you can’t run a whole drive on slants alone.

Admitting out D has some very serious short-falls. Yes that’s a homer alright.

"If wanting to win is a fault, as some of my critics seem to insist, then I plead guilty. I like to win. I know no other way. It's in my blood." -- Paul "Bear" Bryant

by GeauxCrimson on Nov 2, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought possibly so

since he’s always been a rather rational, dare I say SMART, commenter at RBR. Didn’t know if he was just messin’ or if all this hype/tension/nervousness had finally gotten the better of him.

"If wanting to win is a fault, as some of my critics seem to insist, then I plead guilty. I like to win. I know no other way. It's in my blood." -- Paul "Bear" Bryant

by GeauxCrimson on Nov 2, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I suggest we create a sarcasm font

well actually, I suggest somebody else create it, but it’s a good idea at any rate.

by haveagreatday on Nov 2, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's a horrible idea

but really its not

"If wanting to win is a fault, as some of my critics seem to insist, then I plead guilty. I like to win. I know no other way. It's in my blood." -- Paul "Bear" Bryant

by GeauxCrimson on Nov 2, 2011 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

The "kiss of death" line

Isn’t he saying that it’s a kiss of death for LSU to try and throw deep? Or am I reading it wrong and saying Bama’s secondary is vulnerable to the deep ball?

by Squash on Nov 2, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

you should remember

Saban likes to throw CBs on the island – sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t

by dallaslsu on Nov 2, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess kleph will have to answer that

I read it as a “SONONABITCH WE CAN’T GET OFF THE FIELD ON THIRD AND FOREVER” because it sure seems like that happens a lot. However, maybe he did mean it as “3rd and long we are coming after you for the kill.”

"If wanting to win is a fault, as some of my critics seem to insist, then I plead guilty. I like to win. I know no other way. It's in my blood." -- Paul "Bear" Bryant

by GeauxCrimson on Nov 2, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's definitely saying Bama is somewhat vulnerable to the deep ball

They’ve given up a couple this year, and Saban obviously has given them up in the past, both here and at Bama. I have always thought that was how to attack Saban’s defenses, but I think a lot of teams are afraid they can’t protect the QB and won’t call deep routes. It’s a lot more likely to hit one deep pass then 6 or 7 in a row on one drive. You can’t let them intimidate you out of the deep pass (nor do I think we will).

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 2, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

No. I am pretty sure he is saying the opposite.

Neither of the long passes (really the only two long passes) were on 3rd down. Bama only allows 26.5% 3rd down conversions and it is much lower on 3rd and long.

by BamaBR549 on Nov 2, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

you are correct

I misread it. I disagree, but not about 3rd and long. Obviously, that’s bad news. I still think you have to throw deep against Saban, but it needs to be in non-obvious passing situations. I also said that before the game last year, and it turned out to be true.

I posted this on EDSBS, but here I’m putting it here cause it’s relevent:

LSU defense on passes of over 15 yards:

43 attempts, 5 completions, 1 TD, 7 INT

This was accurate before our most recent game, but I don’t have it with that game included. What are Bama’s stats in this situation? I tried to look and couldn’t find it.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 2, 2011 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

i am saying

saban’s defense is designed to make opponents throw down the field on third down.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Nov 3, 2011 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

This.

He wants you taking a lower-percentage throw into zone coverage.

Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook

by Billy Gomila on Nov 3, 2011 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ok

That’s what I thought

by Squash on Nov 3, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

richardson is a beast

but i think that our speed and swarming to the ball carrier will pay dividends. he may be able to bounce off of or even run over one tackeler but LSU has shown we bring several bodies to the ball to help and holes seem to close very fast. the honey badger will be there this time and we all know he takes what the hell he wants.

by truckemdeuce on Nov 2, 2011 10:11 AM CDT reply actions  

Richardson is the scary part of the Bama offense

if we tackle well, that should really help. I don’t see the completing a lot of deep passes – and the more times they try the more opportunities Claiborne has to make a great play and get a turnover.

On the other side- outside of Shep I’m not sure we have a real threat to run outside so it will come down to Oline push. Ware can Beastmode through a few tackles if he gets a head of steam, but if he is hit in the backfield there is not much he or anyone else can do.

Can Jefferson keep the defense honest with some runs and can JJ and Lee hit a couple of downfield passes like they did against Bama?

by GeauxTiger on Nov 2, 2011 11:42 AM CDT reply actions  

Randle

And his YAC will be big in this game too I think…we need to turn those slants into big plays, a la Toliver last year against Florida.

by Squash on Nov 2, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep. A big part of this game will hinge on Randle's YAC

Can he make Bama’s corners miss just like he’s made every other corner miss. Same with Beckham really.

by GeauxTiger on Nov 2, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

"And while I know LSU fans embrace the chaotic insanity that can be a Les Miles-coached contest, I have to believe the nothing-is-too-small-to-be-overlooked approach is the right one to pull out a win in a game like this."

I hate this. Miles is not some crazy lunatic who only wins because his players love him. He’s not just blindly leading the charge and the talent of the team takes over. He’s not just a leader who can’t coach.

“The right one to pull out a win in a game like this.” I don’t recall all of the regular season bye-week games, but I know for sure the bowl games and first games of the season, when Miles has plenty of time to prepare, LSU has been flat-out DOMINANT. Obviously that’s a clear tribute to his coaching ability.

As LSU fans, writing articles (like the last couple of days) that are openly questioning whether are coach is really dumb or really smart, and playing up the “crazy lunatic who’s a great leader” angle isn’t doing any favors. We are getting WAY too caught up in the whole chaos vs. order thing. Miles is a freaking good coach who prepares his players extremely well: Ga-Tech, Va-Tech, Oregon, MSU (07…although, it WAS Mississippi State), Notre Dame, etc. A lot of variety in those offenses (and defenses) and we dominated all of them. Good coaching.

by Squash on Nov 2, 2011 1:12 PM CDT reply actions  

+1000

And he is 2 and 2 against Saban and has a better bowl record while coaching in the SEC. Both coaches are great, but in a big game with time to prepare, I’ll take Les.

by Displaced Tiger on Nov 2, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I honestly think that Miles

is the anti-Saban. You may want to get that on a T-shirt. I get 10% of revenue for coining the term.

Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.

by Bamapride on Nov 2, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bizzaro-Saban

AKA: The Hat!

Booing = farting. Booing can’t come with caveats and neither can farting. . .You drop that bomb and it’s going everywhere, spreading out evenly across the kill zone. You can try and blame it on someone or something else, but no one is buying. Just don’t do it. - tigerarchitect (2011)

by Purpletiger006 on Nov 2, 2011 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah I realize that

My point is I’m just sick of the disrespect to Miles. Here’s the timeline of people’s view of him:
1. Winning with Saban’s players
2. Extremely lucky coach who keeps catching the breaks
3. Sucky coach who can’t manage the clock.
4. (This year) He’s a good recruiter, and LSU is good because his players love him and play hard.

The guy is a FOOTBALL COACH. A good one. And LSU fans aren’t helping him out when we play up the crazy aggressive gambler perception.

by Squash on Nov 2, 2011 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seriously?

70-17…yeah that’s a great coach. He can mismanage the clock every single game if he keeps coming out with that record.

Are you seriously trying to say that any coach who has ever mismanaged the clock is automatically disqualified from being a great coach? Cause that would be the dumbest thing ever. Case in point: http://www.aarontorres-sports.com/articles/nfl/quick-rant-bill-belichicks-fourth-down-fiasco.html

by Squash on Nov 2, 2011 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

To BamaBR

Seriously? How could a “great” coach like Saban- especially as a much lauded db coach, allow his team to give up last minute TD’s to teams like Iowa in the Capitol One Bowl? Or in a number of other games where his perfect defenses gave up ridiculous plays to lose late in games.

Look – every coach has issues sometimes – and it is always easier to criticize them from the sidelines. Miles deserves some blame for clock issues, certainly – but some of that was also on the players (thinking of a particular game with JJ). Unlike some coaches coughbriankellycough Miles is never going to lay the blame on his student athletes.

by GeauxTiger on Nov 3, 2011 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

None of these are stupid - just poor execution

I wanted y’all to lose the Ole Miss game but I am yelling at the TV…. “call time-out, call time-out”. How do you explain Les or someone on his staff not realizing what was going on? Then he claims he it wasn’t his call to clock the ball after the long completion. The video shows otherwise. Keep loving your coach. I assure you Bama fans are glad y’all are in love with him because the next one might be able to recruit AND coach.

by BamaBR549 on Nov 3, 2011 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Saban lost to ULM.

Period. Miles lost on the road to a good Ole Miss team. Barely. Yes there was an incredibly stupid mistake at the end, but like GeauxTiger said every coach has low points. Pointing one out doesn’t disqualify the coach from being considered a great coach.

Miles was NOT trying to tell Jefferson to clock it. You can clearly tell on the video that he’s saying “he’s down! he’s down!” when Toliver went down with one second left.

by Squash on Nov 3, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with you Squash

I just thought your original post sounded like you thought ATVS was writing these comments. Honestly, as reasonable as Kelph sounds (for a bama fan), I’m not sure what else we’d expect from him about Miles. They certainly can’t think he’s actually a great coach who is doing even better at LSU than Saban did…..

by GeauxTiger on Nov 3, 2011 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

forgot tOSU

LSU is an 800 lb gorilla. With a chainsaw as a penis.

by nasa1225 on Nov 2, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

serious question..

before this season wasnt there a lot of talk of Miles being on the hot seat? There was a ton of bitching (on this site mind you) about Miles and his in game mishaps. Im not saying he’s not a great coach or what not but its not like he’s been stone cold solid for years and this chaos character is something new.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 2, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

And not before this year, but before last there was

And it was stupid. The guy wins, and runs a good program. What else do you want in a head coach?

by Squash on Nov 2, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think fans want order..

Most fans can handle not playing for a NC every year but they don’t want their teams looking like idiots on the field either…If you have the players to play Les’s style of ball then you are golden, if not you end up losing games you never should have.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 2, 2011 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Except that EVERY program and EVERY coach

Will lose games they shouldn’t have. Nobody’s exempt from that. The rest is just window dressing.

People tell themselves they want a lot of things, but in the end, what we all REALLY want is a coach that wins games and runs a clean program. Both LSU and Alabama have those things right now.

Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook

by Billy Gomila on Nov 2, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've had my issues

with Les but I like his quirkiness and the fact the he is genuine and not afraid to make fun of himself.

At the end of the day, if someone can give me a list of guys we should trade for Miles I’d consider it, but that list would be very very short and therefore meaningless because it would be full of unattainable guys and guys that wouldn’t fit. South Louisiana is a very different place and not for everyone.

You will always have the portion of the fanbase that is never satisfied and our segment of that fanbase is probably worse than others because in my opinion LSU (outside of maybe a couple of years in the late 50s and early 60s) has never been this good or had this much success yet these yahoos act like we should demand it. We are a top 10 program historically but nowhere near the top 5 historically. These are golden times and Miles is a huge part of it. We owe had and Saban both for this great run.

by dallaslsu on Nov 2, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

"EVERY program and EVERY coach will lose games they shouldn't have."

ULM anyone? Doesn’t mean Saban isn’t a great coach.

The things that I can think of that people list as evidence of his “chaos character” are:

1. Florida fourth downs-all of them were smart. I remember watching that game and feeling SO relieved that we actually got Tebow off the field with like…7 minutes left I think? I’ve never felt so helpless watching our defense than that year, against that offense. We had to go for it on fourth because the chance of us getting the ball back with enough time to do something if we gave it up were very slim.

2. Auburn play-that was rehashed in another thread, but again good call that ESPN called stupid so everybody believed them.

3. Ole Miss-this one is the least defensible, but I’ll give Miles one freebie. The only thing wrong was waiting so long to call a timeout, but seeing as it was fourth and forever and they were throwing for the endzone, I guarantee he didn’t think he needed the time anyways.

4. Tennessee-Crowton. Period.

5. Obviously his press conferences are a little…unique…sometimes but that doesn’t mean he can’t coach.

Am I forgetting anything? Really the only legit one someone can argue is Ole Miss, and one play of one game does not make a coach stupid.

by Squash on Nov 2, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's all about perception

The chaos that rears its ugly head from time to time, on top of the quirky press conferences, give the perception. And we all know, if you give the media an inch…..

"If wanting to win is a fault, as some of my critics seem to insist, then I plead guilty. I like to win. I know no other way. It's in my blood." -- Paul "Bear" Bryant

by GeauxCrimson on Nov 2, 2011 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

"If you give the media an inch"

The dumbest thing ever. Not the statement, but that it’s actually true. I cannot STAND how the media decides one thing, and then EVERYONE goes by it: other media members, announcers, fans, etc. A good example of this is in the NBA where the media decides who the MVP is every year by December, and they’re never wrong because nobody breaks rank…idk why. Either because they don’t wanna go out on a limb or because they’re too lazy to do their own analysis and research, both are pretty pathetic.

That’s actually one reason I like Gary Danielson a lot. He’ll say what he sees, he generally doesn’t just spout the same lines that you hear from the media every week.

by Squash on Nov 2, 2011 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

3 and 4 were both really bad

but I see shit like that happen every weekend, and people don’t start flipping out like they would if Miles were coaching.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 2, 2011 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

You really think the AU play was smart

Chipshot FG vs. having to make a perfect pass (go back and look the AU player came extremely close to making the play). Play was insane.

by BamaBR549 on Nov 2, 2011 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

that was not a chip shot FG

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 2, 2011 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

And our kicker had been struggling

And that kind of pass play is NEVER intercepted.

And there still was plenty of time to kick a field goal after it.

So yeah, smart play.

by Squash on Nov 2, 2011 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

seriously bama

that was a 40+ yard FG – with a young slumping kicker. I doubt we had a 50% shot of making that.

by GeauxTiger on Nov 3, 2011 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yea it would've been a 41 yarder.

Doesn’t matter though, it was a hell of a finish. I was cheerin for yall that day.

by bamaman1488 on Nov 3, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

i know you completed the pass...but the FG is a much higher percent of

being good than that pass…I bet you don’t make that pass 8-9 out of 10 times.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

last try here and then I give up

It was a 41 yarder. Our field goal kicker had at that point shown no real ability to make that.

There was plenty of time on the clock to throw it to the endzone and then kick the FG if that did not work.

The only legit criticism I could see here is arguing that they should have thrown 15 yards down field to try for a shorter field goal – but that ran the risk of a player not being able to get out of bounds after a catch.

by GeauxTiger on Nov 3, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

just a question...

i know hind sight is 20/20 but what would your reaction had been say the pass was intercepted or caught in bounds but the play clock went to 0.00 before he crossed the plane?

It easy to say it was the right call cause the play worked.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

"It easy to say it was the right call cause the play worked."

In fact, one might even say that’s the very definition of the “right call.” But that’s assuming one judges football coaches on whether they win games, which as we both know is just completely crazy.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 3, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

just cause a play worked

doesn’t mean it was the right call. I think LSU fans during the Saban era would say, “kick the FG”. But Les being the Mad Hatter that he is takes more chances and that mindset and bled into the fanbase (which makes sense). Both have an upside and both very much have a down side.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

that's no worse than missing the FG

In both situations, you lose.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 3, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Almost 0 chance of time running out

Just about everything that could go wrong in regards to time did, during that play, and there was STILL time on the clock. I don’t find the “what if the clock went to 0:00” argument persuasive at all?

And if you’re afraid of interceptions, well, just don’t ever throw the ball.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur

by Poseur on Nov 3, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

i was just wondering what your reaction would be..

Saban is not known to make risky calls late in the game. Sure he’ll do something crazy early (see the fake FG against Arky this year) but its usually calculated. I think in that same situation Saban maybe takes a shot but more than likely sets up for a FG..I can’t remember, was there any time outs left?

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

so when Saban does something crazy

it is “calculated” and when Miles does it is because he is the “mad hatter?”

Obvious Troll is Obvious.

by GeauxTiger on Nov 3, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol no..

I was pointing to that play against Arky cause Saban said later that he had planned to go for it on 4th down no matter what on that drive..

Same goes for the fake punt (that didn’t work btw) in the NC game in 09. And come on man, if you know anything about Saban is that he doesn’t take a piss without a plan. There’s nothing wrong with Les being more ballsy..So far its worked for him.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

The ball was on the 22 yd line.

It was a 39 yd FG.

Colt David was UNDER 50% on the year on FG’s between 35-45 yds at that point in the season.

Do you still think we should have kicked the FG?

2011 LSU Accolades:

"I really like corndogs" -Sparky

"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples

"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton

"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports

"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles

by LSU Jonno on Nov 3, 2011 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the "chaos" theory about Les Miles

Boils down to the fact that he does things that are unpredictable and when he does them, they (almost always) work. You can’t watch that fake field goal, over the shoulder toss without marveling at the sheer audacity and incredible effectiveness of it. You can’t watch the “fourth-down Florida” game without being shocked that he went for it every time and that Florida couldn’t stop it. He does things that most other coaches are too conservative to try on a regular basis, and coupled with his tenuous grasp on the English language, it gives the impression that he’s some kind of idiot savant rather than just a great, unconventional game planner.

"You play fast! You play strong! You go out there and dominate the man you're playing against, and you make his ass quit! That's our trademark! That's our M.O.... as a team! That's what people know us as!" - Coach Nick Saban before the 2008 LSU game.

by 12NationalChampionships on Nov 4, 2011 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

my point is when you run a system that is really less about schemes and more about

your best against their best than you are susceptible to loses. For instance, USC ran a base D that basically put their best against your best. It worked for years cause they had better athletes. Once they missed on certain recruits the bottom feel off. See Pete Carols last year.

And I may be completely wrong about this so correct me if I am but from the quotes I’ve read from Les, the players and from what Ive seen from LSU this year, I see a very similar approach. Its not about crazy schemes, complex blitzes or anything like that. Its about your best beating the man in front of them, at least on defense. Problem is, if you dont have the players who can do that on a consistent basis you will lose more games than you should..Im again not saying that system is bad or worse than others, Im just pointing out the flaws in creating a team around it.

Compare that to the opposite end of the spectrum like i.e. Sabans defense that needs a very particular type of player who is not only athletic but one that completely understands the system. When you attempt to throw a young but athletic player in to the game you end up having 3 losses you should have never had (see Bama ’10.)

Thats why in the college game you see a mixture. Its very hard for most teams to have the talent to do either one.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're selling the complexity of Chavis' D way short

Offensively, what you’re saying is basically true, but it’s the exact same kind of offense Saban has run for most of his career.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 3, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I probably am.

All i can go off of is what I’ve read from quotes and what I’ve seen. Obviously I don’t know the intricacies of the LSU D.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah you got me..

Sabans first year, when he was in the middle of a complete rebuilding project (remember Les didn’t have to rebuild a damn thing) and had to completely change not only the mindset of the team but the university and the fans…Yeah cause using ULM makes total sense.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

it was his first year?

That’s your excuse? Are you saying he didn’t have the players to compete with ULM? A team which has only been in division one since 1994? He didn’t have the team ready to play, that’s all there is to it. You can blame the players and the fans’ mindset all you want (that’s certainly what he would do), but that loss is on Saban. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad coach, any more than a gaffe against Ole Miss means Miles is a bad coach.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 3, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

no...im saying to use any game from that year isn't fair to this argument..

We could go back to some random year where LSU lost an emabarrassing game but that wouldn’t fit this argument.

We are talking about losing a game due to your defensive or offensive phylosophy (being overly aggressive or not)..Using ULM (which was Alabama’s worst loss ever) doesn’t fit here.

If you’d like to debate Saban’s mistakes during that year we can do that. But thats a different conversation all together.

You can blame the players and the fans’ mindset all you want (that’s certainly what he would do),

When has Saban ever blammed a loss on the fans or the players? Im sure he’s alluded to us all being apart of a loss or win but to say he’s outright blammed it on the fans or players reeks of buthurt. And by god i hope you’re not talking about his comments after the Sugar Bowl loss cause IMO he was right on. The fans completely checked out, for the most part before the game. He never blammed the fans but said their comments and reaction to having to play in a BCS BOWL GAME was piss poor.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here are a couple

from last year’s LSU/Bama game:

“We had a guy that’s coming off the edge who’s supposed to be ahead of the play,” Saban said of the Peterson run [edit: the reverse on 4th down]. “But that goes back to the same old thing: If everybody executes and does what they’re supposed to do — eye control and discipline, which is important in this game — it wouldn’t have been an issue.”
“This whole year, everyone around us has been very concerned about the results in comparison to what was accomplished a year ago, and that has not been the best thing for the development of this team.”

I’m sure you won’t read these the same way I do, and that’s fine cause you should like your coach, but to me this reeks of finger pointing. He didn’t say “Great call on the reverse, we got fooled.” He said, “no we weren’t fooled, but one player blew an assignment.” The second quote had more context when I read it, but basically it seemed to me like he was trying to tell the media and fans how to handle success so as not to corrupt his team’s mindset. There’s no doubt that repeating is difficult and there are lots of distractions and that’s why it’s hard. It’s HIS job to handle that stuff and prevent it from affecting the team; it’s certainly not the fan’s and media’s job to behave in a manner acceptable to him

My idea is that every specific body strives to become master over all space and to extend its force (--its will to power:) and to thrust back all that resists its extension.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 3, 2011 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

sure he's finger pointing a little..not everything is the coaches fault.

In that quote above he’s explaining why the play worked and how the play wasn’t defended properly. Its not like we went for the block and were completely fooled. A player didn’t do his assignment. Its not like Saban called the player by name and pointed saying," WE LOST BECAUSE OF HIM".

Saban preaches that if everyone does their job right, we will have success. That if you do your job and still get beat thats acceptable but if you don’t, then your ass is toast.

That last quote could be taken a billion ways. Problem with last season was the #1 hype. Fans were talking about repeating and Ingrams 2nd Heisman etc etc. When we starting losing fans freaked. We had gone two full regular seasons without losing. Fact is we had holes at OL, LB and DB. You can’t win a NC with those problems. So his point was that we as fans/the media were trying to compare ‘10 with ’09 which wasn’t fair to that squad.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

and for the record i am not a Saban homer..

there are a lot of things he does im not fond of. I don’t like his anger and reaction on the sideline. I wish he was a little more refined with the media. I also wish he allowed players and coaches to speak to the media..

But I do like how he sets expectations and attempts to keep the crazies out. Cause by god theres enough of those in the state of Alabama.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think the game you should look at is

USCe in ‘10. We should have never lost that game. But due to a very young and completely green secondary and also USC playing the f’ing game of their lives we lost. Any other year and we beat them by 14+.

But this is the flaw in the Saban way. When you don’t have the athletes to run his defense you’re going to get burned. A lot.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

before this season wasnt there a lot of talk of Miles being on the hot seat?

No. Not before this season. Maybe before last season….

There was a ton of bitching (on this site mind you) about Miles and his in game mishaps.

You’re thinking of a different LSU site. ATVS has been pretty solidly pro-Miles. SEE Optimism, Delusional.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur

by Poseur on Nov 2, 2011 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Two years ago

We had plenty of dissension about Les. Remember the header after the Ole Miss game? “Les just lost me.”

Many of us were debating SouthernMan back and forth, mostly because he refused to tolerate even levelheaded criticism of Les. We were all bitching a ton, Poseur. Can’t believe you don’t recall that.

by GeauxTigers on Nov 3, 2011 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

That was our basketball writer

And he took it back a week later:

http://www.andthevalleyshook.com/2009/11/28/1177380/les-just-won-be-back

Sure, the site was pretty negative after the Ole Miss game, but I think calling ATVS solidly pro-Miles is accurate. Look at our offseason posts in 2009 and 2010 — we were the site defending Miles. It doesn’t mean we’ve never criticized him or weren’t upset after the OM debacle.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur

by Poseur on Nov 3, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

i was thinking of the comments...

like when displacedtiger called RBR full of homers. Maybe the members are but the writers have not been. I stand corrected.

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

That comment was made in the spirit of the big game this week...we aren't supposed to like you and you aren't supposed to like us this week!

And my post was based on MY VIEW of the tone of the comments posted below ONE article, (anecdotal evidence or singular data point?), which was that Bama beat itself and failed to even recognize that the other team (LSU) contributed to putting Bama in a position to beat itself. I called that homerism and I stand by it.

I also complimented the RBR writers on providing good to excellent content.

by Displaced Tiger on Nov 3, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think we can also agree that your elephant is fat.;-)

I hope we crush you this week, but that we leave you intact enough so that you finish the season strong!

I can’t wait for this game.

by Displaced Tiger on Nov 3, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes I know

But that recant seemed like more of an attempt to quell any hysteria. Nothing in that following week really offset the prior. I agree this site has been pro-Miles in general, all the way back to when I was writing in 06-07, but a lot of us regulars were rightly fuming around that time in 09. Just read the commentary on the thread you linked. It’s all levelheaded discourse, and I was a participant, but there was no shortage of “Les needs to regain our faith” type posts from others besides myself.

Even Pittman said “we’ve been 17-8 in our last two seasons. That’s not exactly $3.75 million/year results, and if Miles did not want criticism for 5- and 3-loss seasons, maybe he should have turned down that big contract.”

My point is just that bammer is not at all far off in his assessment. He is wrong that we all had him on the hot seat, but is on point that there was plenty of bitching about the game mishaps.

by GeauxTigers on Nov 3, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I also think this is incorrect

I think the attention to detail of Saban’s that he is referring to is ideal for building a program, and most objective people would say that Saban is the absolute best coach in the country for building a program. As far as I know, though, there is no evidence whatsoever that Saban is a better big game coach than Miles. Miles really embraces big games, whereas Saban goes out of his way to downplay everything. I don’t think it can be proven that Saban’s approach in this respect is similar, and Miles record in bowl games, close games, etc. is on par or superior to Saban’s statistically.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 2, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I must correct you on one thing

Saban doesn’t downplay any games. He does exactly the opposite. By his theory (the Process as people like to either revere or heckle), EVERY game should be played as if it were the last game.

"If wanting to win is a fault, as some of my critics seem to insist, then I plead guilty. I like to win. I know no other way. It's in my blood." -- Paul "Bear" Bryant

by GeauxCrimson on Nov 2, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

It certainly sounds like he's downplaying this one

He downplays big games and bullcraps about how big pushover games are haha. When he says this is just any other game…that’s downplaying. “Any other game’s” tickets don’t go for 10 grand.

by Squash on Nov 2, 2011 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

theres downplaying adn

and trying to bring everyone’s head out of the clouds. Im sure the team knows exactly how big this game is. Why make it so big that the players have a hard time concentrating?

Follow on twitter @thelyell

by bammer on Nov 3, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah I know what he's trying to do

And I’m not saying it’s any better or worse than Miles, but I definitely DO think it’s unrealistic to expect the players to treat it like any other game.

by Squash on Nov 3, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's pretty fair

but that still implies that every game is equally important. I think he tries to get his players to forget that there is hype around certain games (which I would call downplaying) whereas Miles doesn’t even bother, cause he knows it’s impossible.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 2, 2011 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

i'd clarify that just a bit

in that saban insists every game and every contests needs to be handled exactly the same. certainly enthusiasm to go up against north texas versus going up against lsu is going to vary (and you can pretty see he understands this by his comments) but that’s not really what he’s addressing. saban repeatedly insists that players need to perform their roles precisely and consistently no matter who the opponent. that focus on execution remains absolutely consistent no matter who is the opposing team that week.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Nov 3, 2011 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

"I don’t recall all of the regular season bye-week games..."

LSU is 4-2 coming off of a bye with Les as the coach. The two losses were vs UT in 2005 (blew a 3 TD lead) and vs UF in 2008 (no shame losing to the champ).

Les is 2-0 vs Bama/Saban coming off of a bye. Probably not a big deal, but, you know… just sayin’

by Amerikon on Nov 2, 2011 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

LES MILES HAS PROVED HE'S A GREAT COACH

As far as I’m concerned, Les Miles is a great coach with nothing left to prove. Anything he accomplishes from this point forward with the LSU football program is lagniappe. And for those fans who’ve supported him through his time at LSU, it will be a reward for that support in the form of being able to boast of some of the best teams to ever play college football. This year’s team, especially, is a joy to watch as they have repeatedly dismantled ranked football teams by playing what can only be termed nearly “flawless football”. Talent has combined with great coaching to produce one of the most dominant teams in college football. Alabama fans had better get ready for a long night because when LSU is finished putting a good ole ass whipping on their team they’ll watch what is a really good football team turned into a shell of itself as was the state of the Oklahoma team after LSU laid into them in the national championship game. I’ll never forget the image of Oklahoma’s quarterback as he limped off the field after that game. I believe that’s the type of images the Alabama team will present after Saturday’s game. Geaux Tigers!!!

by Caliguy55 on Nov 2, 2011 2:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Here's a question for you...

Do you think Chavis goes 8-9 in the box and let the chips fall where they may in single pass covereage?

From an outsider looking in, it doesn’t appear that LSU has ever had to do that and I can’t recall it happening over the last 2-3 years. Although my memory can be dodgy at times.

Talent can only get you so far. Give me a player who has less talent, but the heart of a champion and the will to succeed.

by Bamapride on Nov 2, 2011 2:56 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't know, but

that’d be a plan I’d try. I’m not an X’s and O’s genius though, so take that with a grain of salt.

I’d try keeping an extra defender in the box and letting the LSU secondary earn their keep mano y mano. Maze, Hanks, and Bell are all good, but they’re not “elite,” and if the Tiger secondary is as good as they’re supposed to be, I’d be tempted to let them take their chances. The Tide would no doubt make some plays, but hopefully not enough to lead to a lot of points.

The only thing that bothers me about putting Mathieu on an island is his size. There was one play in the Tennessee game that a lot of people said he was too busy going for a strip. While I think that’s true as well, it also looked to me like he was struggling to bring down a bigger, physical receiver.

by MikeDeTiger on Nov 2, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

mathieu

I agree with you on his size if you are talking about a jump ball but I’m not sure we have a better tackler than #7 – I remember the play against Tenn#21(name escapes me) and he was trying to make a big play instead of securing the tackle – usually he does the opposite – tackles first then goes for the big play.

I think Taylor is in run support quite a bit so we definitely have 8 up more than a little – not sure if I recall having 9 – but if things get bad, I would agree with Mike and say put Reid up there too and let the corners fend for themselves. Lets hope it doesn’t come to that

by dallaslsu on Nov 2, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you think Chavis goes 8-9 in the box and let the chips fall where they may in single pass covereage?

This is pretty much LSU’s defensive MO, and they’ve done it plenty of times this season against teams like Oregon, State and Florida. Advantage of having good corners. Sometimes they don’t give the look pre-snap, but Brandon Taylor or Eric Reid will often come flying in.

Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook

by Billy Gomila on Nov 2, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is probably the best scondary LSU has ever had

The only real competition is Webster/Daniels/Landry and last year’s team. And that really means either this year or last year, because you don’t get to call yourself the best secondary ever if you collectively give up on a last second Big Ben pass on the final play of the Citrus Bowl. Not that I’m still bitter.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 2, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think those were different years.

Webster was a senior in 2003, I think, and Landry was a freshman that year. The only year those guys played together was the championship season. Not sure about that, though.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 2, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Webster was a junior in 2003

Webster and Landry played two years together, 2003 and 2004. Webster = jr/sr, Landry = fr/so.

Webster was in that Citrus Bowl.

by MikeDeTiger on Nov 3, 2011 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep and the '04 team had Jessie Daniels playing significant minutes too

Although the ‘03 team had Blue Gay. And you can make the argument that Landry’s best year was his freshman year, and it was a slow and subtle slide downhill from there.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 3, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

His 05 season was pretty good

But he was more hype than substance in 06. Reggie Nelson for Florida completely outplayed him.

Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook

by Billy Gomila on Nov 3, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dood

I cannot agree with that at all. What’s your basis for saying ‘06 was hype? I thought it was a travesty he didn’t even a finalist for the Thorpe. I loved Reggie Nelson’s playing, but I didn’t think he outplayed Landry that year at all.

Side note: Nelson was a finalist and present for the awards show, and it was a (milder) travesty that of the finalists selected, he didn’t win. I thought he was way better than the Texas guy, Aaron Ross, or whoever that was that won it.

by MikeDeTiger on Nov 3, 2011 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

i'll take you guys word for it

I stand corrected.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 3, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

TR can and will run over any single LSU defender, the problem is..

there is never just one defender. Those guys are scary fast and always gang tackle. Will be a great game.

by Bamafan on Nov 2, 2011 4:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Nothing personal...

… but TR vs. Brockers? I’ll take Brockers. Or d-linemen are pretty good.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur

by Poseur on Nov 2, 2011 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or Montgomery

or Adams or Downs or anyone else on the D-line (with the possible exception of Mingo). Richardson is great, but LSU has great tacklers. Nobody is going to be consistently running over anybody else on Saturday.

by Squash on Nov 2, 2011 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

TR can run over any single LSU defender

on any single play but he can’t and won’t do it every play.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 2, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

The worry is TR against the linebackers

if the Dlineman get blown off the play by the blockers and the linebackers have to tackle, TR will likely break some tackles. But if Brockers, Montgomery, etc gets in TRs way there will be some TFL.

by GeauxTiger on Nov 3, 2011 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Many excellent comments and lucid observations here. Certainly food for thought… Some have clearly sipped the Kool-Aid though…

Two outstanding football teams. Can’t wait for Saturday night. SEC football at it’s best.

by BadSport on Nov 2, 2011 9:39 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't know if kleph will read this, but....

The first Iron Bowl in Tuscaloosa was not actually in 2000. That was the first Iron Bowl in BDS, but Auburn visited Tuscaloosa 3 times, I believe, in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Technically, the game wasn’t called the Iron Bowl then though so maybe that’s what he meant. The game has definitely been played in Bham more times than in any other location though. In fact, for many years it was played there every year as a neutral site game. That changed in 1989 when Auburn started hosting their home game on campus. Alabama started hosting theirs in 2000 and I was lucky enough to be at that game even though we lost.

by AllTideUp on Nov 3, 2011 1:01 AM CDT reply actions  

since there seems to be come misunderstanding

i would like to clarify my statement about his “style.” accusing me of alleging miles is a bad coach is simply incorrect and i believe even a cursory listen to my statements in the Geaux Show podcast will make that clear. i firmly believe miles is an underrated offensive coach and his record of success at the highest level of college football speaks for itself.

that said, the question is about this single game. in the past, miles has famously had difficulty with critical things such as clock management at key times in close contests. that suggests a procedural breakdown at the coaching level. and this is the kind of thing likely to be the difference between victory and defeat in a closely fought game as we expect on saturday.

nick saban, by contrast, takes an extremely methodical approach to these issues. a few hours before every game he and his staff have a meeting where they go over what to do in the worst case scenario. the idea is to have gone through what to do under critical situations in case they come to pass in the game. with time of the essence, any confusion at all can kill you.

thus, in this respect, i think saban’s approach gives alabama an edge against lsu in this specific game.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Nov 3, 2011 8:18 AM CDT reply actions  

Kleph

Your thoughts are not crazy – but I do think you are only looking at one coaches’ negatives. Saban has a tendency to take his foot off the gas early – and his teams have given up big plays late. His teams also sometimes come out flat – which may partly be related to his general approach of “don’t be too enthusiastic guys, it doesn’t matter if this is the biggest game of the year, it’s still a long season…”

Should be a great game.

by GeauxTiger on Nov 3, 2011 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

i understand that and this is just my take on the situation

but i did want to be clear that saying something about one aspect of les miles coaching in the context of one single game is by no means a blanket condemnation of him as a coach.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Nov 3, 2011 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I understand what you meant.

You are not a crazy homer – which is nice to see.

by GeauxTiger on Nov 3, 2011 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

"You are not a crazy homer" - Disagree...

This week, by virtue of being a Bama fan, Kleph is a crazy homer to me…a well thought out and particularly articulate homer, but a homer all the same.

This week, I expect to be a crazy homer as well. . . but with probably less well thought out arguments (damn day job) that are much less articulately presented.

This is the biggest game of the year, so I am suspending my usual anti-homer beliefs and fully embracing homerism.

I have also obviously suspended my self restraint on blog posting. This game is just too exciting to sit on the sidelines all week. I could treat this as any other game and keep up the business as usual thing, but I am taking my lead from CLM and embracing the spotlight and enjoying the big game atmosphere. So, in that spirit, someone else said it best on another thread, Bama, your elephant is fat! Geaux Tigers!

As a side, it is pretty damn awesome how much cross traffic there has been between fan bases this week. Good stuff!

by Displaced Tiger on Nov 3, 2011 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

oh he's a homer

if he were any more a homer, his last name would be simpson.

nemo me impune lacessit

by LSUJOSHUA on Nov 3, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I clarified guys - not a "crazy homer."

We are all homers. What would the point be otherwise?

by GeauxTiger on Nov 3, 2011 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's also had a number of times where he's rather masterfully managed the clock as well.

You don’t have his record in close games if you bungle clock management constantly.

Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook

by Billy Gomila on Nov 3, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know who "he" is in this sentence

Which goes to show that it applies to either coach. I just feel like if both coaches have 20 late game situations and handle 18 well and 2 poorly, people point to Saban’s 18 but to Miles’ 2.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 3, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Billy was talking about Miles I think

and your last point 4.0 is partly related to media/internet perception. People don’t watch all of the games – so they see what’s on sportscenter or whatever else and build on whatever the initial impression of the coach is. Works the same way in politics.

by GeauxTiger on Nov 3, 2011 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

And as long as we're on the clock management theme

What I think was far, FAR worse than our meltdown in a regular season game against Ole Miss was Mack Brown’s in the Big 12 title game against Nebraska in 09. Remember McCoy throwing it out of bounds, the clock going to zero, then referees reviewing it and adding a second back so that UT could kick the game-winning FG? That was to play in the national title game, making that situation multiples worse.

Yet how often do you hear about Mack being a bumbling fool with the clock?

by GeauxTigers on Nov 3, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

To be perfectly honest

If put on the spot, far more coaches would screw up a last-second situation than people believe. Butch Davis did it last year too.

Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook

by Billy Gomila on Nov 3, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

let's be clear here

i’m not building a case against les miles. i’m providing reasonable evidence for why i have drawn the conclusion i have. asking it to meet a higher threshold than that is a bit beyond the point of the exercise.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Nov 3, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

This seems true anecdotally

but statistically speaking it’s simply not the case. Miles is 6-3 in bowl games and Saban is 6-6. Football study hall looked at coaches records in close games and Miles was right at the top. All the numbers say that Miles is actually a really good coach in big games, and simply looking at one or two games and assuming they represent the entire body of work is a mistake.

You have been mad and drunken, furious and wild, filled with hatred and despair...but so have we - Thomas Wolfe, inadvertently commenting on college football.

by Yail Bloor on Nov 3, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think you're probably referring to my original post

And I don’t think you meant to say he’s a bad coach. I’ll leave that argument behind though, because I think your contrast of the two coaches has some serious flaws. First, do you really think that Saban and his staff are the ONLY staff that goes through that meeting? I would guess 99% of the coaches in America do that at some point during the week…so it’s not exactly a sign of Saban’s genius (and he’s a very good coach, I’m just saying there’s much better evidence than that).

Miles is 22-9 in one possession games, and you don’t get there by being a complete idiot at clock management. He mismanaged ONE game. That’s it. As someone pointed out elsewhere, Saban giving up Hail Mary’s is pretty bad too….but that doesn’t mean they aren’t great coaches still.

by Squash on Nov 3, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

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