LSU -- Arkansas: Viewer's Guide to the DVR Replay
by Billy Gomila on Nov 26, 2011 6:48 PM CST
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That is all I can say to anybody that still doubts whether or not LSU is clearly the best team in college football. In terms of the regular season, there is nothing left to prove. 12-0 by an average score of 38-10, with 40 or more points scored in eight of those games against a schedule that includes three other BCS top-10 teams and two possible conference champions.
And just about every one of them looked a lot like this, sans for the 14-point deficit. The Tigers wear you out at the line of scrimmage and swarm you with athletes in either backfield. They play with a confidence and a swagger in all three phases of the game, and if one aspect of the team is struggling, the others are both willing and able to carry the additional load. A true team, in every sense of the word. No one player beats you. They all do. Wave after wave of talented players crash into opponents until the collective pounding takes its toll and they can't keep their heads above water.
LSU has never had an undefeated regular season in my lifetime, and words fail me in describing just how satisfying it feels. I could not be prouder of this team, or this coaching staff. Whatever happens going forward, I don't know that we'll ever see a regular season this dominant again.
But anyway, on to the game notes:
- Odd start to the team. It felt like the defense was sort of asleep, and the offense was pressing a little bit to try and make up for it. A little over-aggressive at times instead of just hunkering down and going right at Arkansas. Credit the Razorbacks for beating the Tigers at their own game early, flipping field position and taking advantage to get a touchdown and then catching the perfect turnover for the next one.
- And just like that, the offense got going with a 14-play scoring drive, balanced 50/50 on runs and passes, with the key being a big option play by Ford that turned a second and 16 into a third and two. Ford had one of those emblematic days where he shows the speed that makes you want to keep the ball in his hands but still makes a handful of mental mistakes that frustrate you. He just seems to zig when he should zag every so often. I can't recall the exact run, but I remember he had the ball in space with a clear bee-line to the first down if he just cuts inside and hits the gas. Instead, he headed outside towards the boundary, and while the run still resulted in a nice gain, a more instinctive back could have picked up more.
- And what did LSU follow that first scoring drive with? A three-and-out and a 92-yard punt return to knot the game. The Honey Badger hasn't been able to find much room on punt returns this season, and in truth he probably shouldn't have on this one, but once he got through that first wave of ‘Back gunners, he was able to get behind a few blocks and suddenly things broke open. And of course, on the next drive he one-ups himself with yet another timely forced fumble.
- The next drive belonged to Jordan Jefferson. Two big out/comeback routes -- the best route for his catapult-like delivery, and then the big scramble play. Attacking the deep sidelines took perfect advantage of the single-high safety Arkansas was using almost exclusively, and the inside screen to Russell Shepard was timed perfectly to beat a blitz.
- Perimeter blocking was huge for the Tigers, from the tackles out. Alex Hurst whiffed a few times early, resulting in an early sack, but Chris Faulk virtually erased Jake Bequette from the box score, the tight ends consistently set the edge (Deangelo Peterson in particular did a great job on Ford's 49-yard run) and LSU's receivers pushed the ‘Back corners and safeties into next week. Jarvis Landry in particular was downright vicious, and his seal on from the slot helped create the alley for Jefferson's 48-yard touchdown.
- Patience was a virtue for Jefferson, who shrugged off a couple of early issues, including a blown-up roll-out attempt, a bad snap and another bobbled one. Aside from his interception, a case of trying to squeeze a pass into too tight of a window, Jefferson did a fantastic job on the deep sideline throws, which have always been his best. Again, the key to success for LSU's quarterbacks is all about comfort. When Jefferson is running speed/read options and throwing the deeper or intermediate play-action passes, he's in that comfort zone.
- It helps that he's also learned to keep the deep balls up, and if the coverage is close Rueben Randle will win the matchup more often than not.
- Kenny Hilliard represents the third different LSU back to go over 100 yards in a game this season, and he did it by out-Spencer-Waring Spencer Ware. Run hard, punish tacklers and keep those legs pumping. The difference is, Hilliard may have a little more burst than Ware and happens to be about 15 pounds heavier.
- On defense, everything started with Michael Brockers and Bennie Logan, who combined for 10 tackles and helped keep Barkevious Mingo, Sam Montgomery and the back seven in one-on-one situations.
- Chavis clearly made an effort to take away the deep routes and force Tyler Wilson and Co. into slow and methodical drives. Again, credit Arkansas for finding ways to still create big plays by coming back to the ball and helping their quarterback. Sometimes when you run off the deep zones, the underneath areas are either open or filled with linebackers that can't run with the likes of Greg Childs or Cobi Hamilton.
- Still, Morris Claiborne, Tharold Simon and Tyrann Mathieu of taking Joe Adams and Jarius Wright out of the game. Claiborne's interception was a classic case of bating. He hung just off of Wright, waited on the throw and went for the ball. How many times this season has Wilson been able to just toss one up and let his guy make a play? Claiborne played for it, just like his old running mate Patrick Peterson.
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LSU and its lack of respect they receive
Since the seasons opening kick off against Oregon to the final regular season contest against Arkansas the LSU Tigers football team has been doubted and disrespected. Through all of their adversities of suspended players starting in game 1 through the suspensions with players failing drug tests this team has shown cohesiveness, athleticism and sideline depth of personnel.
Their are many of those who believed that the Alabama Crimson Tide would be the obvious hurdle that would be the obstacle of destruction for LSU. Never considering that the Bengal Tigers of Baton Rouge defeated this same team last season. I must admit the majority of the nay sayers are the Alabama faithful.
Facts; Alabama was favored by +5 on their home field, Bryant-Denny Stadium in Tuscaloosa, Al. In the first half they struck first to score and led by 3 points. LSU tied the game to go into the half at 3 points a piece. In the second half Alabama struck again with a second field goal thus leading once again 6-3. It was LSU that tied the game at six all (6-6) in the fourth quarter and taking the game into overtime on Alabama’s home field. Let me remind you that the Bayou Bengals are the visiting team. Not Bama.
LSU won the overtime coin toss and gave the first possession and pressure to the Tide. Instead of them moving the ball for a score the LSU defense pushed them back. Forcing them to attempt a 52 yard field goal which was missed. The longest field goal made from Alabama’s kicker, Foster, at that point of the season was a 43 yarder. Les Miles confidence in a likely missed field goal was always evident and Nick Saban made the decisions to miss four of the six attempts, feeling as if the LSU defense would most assuredly stop Alabama’s offense in the red zone.
LSU got their turn, their possession and on third down, Ford, number 42 goes to his left and into the end zone untouched but the touchdown was called back for stepping out of bounds at the seven yard line. Along came the LSU field goal kicker on fourth down. After already being a successful on two prior kicks to get them to overtime he had an opportunity to seal the deal with his golden foot and he did. Winning the game in overtime. LSU 9, Alabama 6.
Bama had their opportunity to knock off the #1 ranked LSU Tigers on their home field and was unsuccessful. For them to be allowed two bites at the apple seems unfair. LSU would have to beat them twice in 2011 for the BCS National Championship but Alabama, a team the Tigers have already beaten on Bama’s home field, will only have to beat LSU once.
Alabama is a good team but they were not the better team on November 5, 2011 at Bryant-Denny Stadium in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. They had their chance to knock off the best team in the nation and couldn’t do it. There is always next year to prove themselves worthy to be the BCS National Champions.
The issue isn't fairness
It is simple. The BCS Championship is meant to put the two best teams in the country together for a title game. The voters would not fulfilling their responsibility if they voted someone else to that spot simply based on avoiding a rematch. If LSU and The Tide are the two best teams… Let them play.
On a personal note, I think they are. Who would you honestly vote for number two. Remember, you’re not voting to avoid a rematch. Simply who is the second best.
by HogCP on Nov 26, 2011 9:16 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Do we truly know Bama is the second best team in the country?
Who have they beaten out of conference to prove so? Penn State? Yes they look very good and look like they are actually the second beat team in the country. But Oklahoma State looked good til their only loss that was in overtime a night after tragedy struck their campus. Let’s wait till after the OSU vs UO game to decide. We beat Bama, the likely PAC 12 winner, and possibly the Big East winner so let’s see if we can beat next best conferences top team. JMO
by cbkao on Nov 26, 2011 9:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
We don't "truly" know anything...
Not even that LSU is first, strictly speaking. They haven’t played everyone in the country. But that isn’t the test. As HogCP said, the BCS Championship is meant to put the two best teams in the country together for a title game, and who are the two best teams is determined by the BCS voting and computer system. And it is determined based on their views next Sunday. So yes, it will happen after the OSU vs OU game, and depend in part on the outcome.
But unless the voters deliberately vote to avoid a rematch, rather than voting for what they genuinely believe to be the second best team, I think we are in for a rematch.
Personally, I hope the voters do that, i.e. vote to avoid a rematch. But if a rematch arrives then I am confident that LSU will do even better than on Nov. 5. We might all find that a beatdown of Alabama in the NCG is actually a lot more satisfying than a shootout with OSU!
I think you might find that...
many voters will actually vote against a rematch rather than for number two, mainly because they don’t want to see it again. I think the majority will still vote for number two, however, precisely for the reason you mentioned. So we will likely have our rematch. I see a small outside chance that Okie State gets enough human votes and computer points with an absolute bludgeoning of Oklahoma to edge bama for the #2 spot. Wow, that was a run-on sentence and, yeah… not at all likely.
Personally, I would be elated to see a rematch. Once you have played a Saban-coached team, you know exactly what to expect the second time around. He doesn’t change his game plan or style much, save to fit in new players each year, or when key players are out because of injury or other reasons. That’s just the way he is, and has always been. It worked when he was at LSU and it works at bama, so why change? Lesticles, on the other hand, will pull out the stops and try new things, especially given the time to prepare. Hell, he’s been unpredictable this year by game planning predictably. He also has a lot more fun when he is out there on the sideline. Saban has always been about the victory, but Miles is all about playing the game. Victory is just the end result of having fun. As it should be.
I like our chances against bama at least as much, and probably better than any other opponent we play, especially since we have already beaten them in their own house. We know we can do it, but more importantly, they know we can do it.
"LSU's ability to eat the other team's soul is unparalled in my memory." -Aaron Chastain via Twitter
"Madam, you have between your legs an instrument capable of giving pleasure to thousands and all you can do is scratch it."
--Sir Thomas Beecham to a lady cellist.
Disrespected?
Really? I don’t see that at all. Almost everyone has been saying LSU is the #1 or #2 team all year long. After you beat us, pretty much everyone has been saying LSU is the clear #1 and best team in the country. A few people here or there might still think Alabama is a better team. Clearly we are very close, as the game went into overtime. Is that disrespect? Not really.
As far as fair or unfair, it may not be fair to the other 1 loss teams that Bama gets another shot. So what? The BCS is inherently unfair. There is no truly fair solution. But Bama is the clear #2. The BCS is supposed to be the top 2 teams playing for the championship. That’s it, and that’s all. There’s no rule against a rematch. There’s no rule that you have to win your conference. That has been brought up, and a rule preventing a non-conference champion from getting in was rejected.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
The disrespect was pretty apparent
from the number of people predicting that LSU would lose on Fri, and obsessing about the 3-way tie in the SEC West that would have resulted.
I agree with you re the BSC. It is always going to be inherently unfair to someone, but the clearly stated intent is that the top 2 teams (as assessed by the voters / computers next Sunday) are meant to play for the championship, irrespective of whether the won their conference or division, and of how many losses they have had.
But don’t be surprised if next Sun evening a lot of voters have decided that OSU is the second best team… (I’m assuming they win and win well against OU – if they lose, you should not only be surprised, but catatonically shocked, if the voteres pick them as no. 2!).
I thought Arkansas had a good shot because of their passing game, but I wouldn’t have put money on them. If picking the #3 team to upset the #1 team is disrespect, well it just seems like you’re being thin-skinned.
I don’t think anyone genuinely believes that OSU is better than alabama. They lost to a team that’s 3-5 in their own conference…. If they don’t really believe that OSU is better than Alabama and vote them ahead for whatever reason, well that’s their prerogative. I think it’s BS, but nothing much you can do about it.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
I don't think anyone here is thin-skinned
In fact I think this is an extremely moderate group of commentators and observers. Most here would probably have agreed with you, that Arky had a shot, albeit a long one, but no-one here would have put money on it. That isn’t the point. The disrespect we felt was that there seemed to be an assumption in the national media, in fact it was almost glee, that LSU would lose, despite the domination that LSU has shown over every team they has played except Alabama. (It is interesting to contrast the views of Vegas leading up to the game.) Granted this was fed by talking heads pumping up ratings, but the disrespect was pretty strong.
I don’t think that OSU is better than Alabama either. If I had a vote, and I wanted to cast it honestly, without regard to the consequences, I would pick Alabama as second (certainly today, and I can’t conceive anything happening next weekend which would change that). But that, again, isn’t the point. I think there is a good chance that enough voters will be so turned off by the idea of a rematch that they choose OSU. I agree it is BS, if you stand by the existing rules. But as you said, there is nothing anyone can do about it. If it happens, then perhaps it is an indicaiton that the rules need to be changed.
Well, if a Bama fan
…picks a team they dominated (Arky) to beat a team that they un-won against (LSU), that seems like disrespect to me …
I think they were just hoping for drama.
I don’t see how any reasonable person could look at what LSU and Arkansas have done this season and predict anything other than a fairly easy LSU victory in that game. Same for UGA- common opponents suggest LSU by 17 or so, and there are enough games to have a decent sample size.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Well you know as well as I do
that GENERALLY no victory in the “battle for the boot” is ever an easy victory. I mean hell, prior to this ass whipping the last 6 games were decided by a total of 21 points!
I can’t go with common opponents because when we played Miss St. it was 19-6. Alabama played them and it was 24-7 or some shit like that. While Arkansas blew the doors off of them.
Yes the media was hoping for drama. Drama sells. It would give them something to constantly talk about. Given the prior week’s craziness anything was possible. And when Arkansas was up on us 14-0 I started pounding the drinks pretty hard cause I thought we were in for a long day.
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes." – Winston Churchill
by Swangahouse on Nov 28, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Guys don't forget that ESPN is an entertainment channel at heart
They’ve got to “sell” stories to their viewers. An undefeated team that’s been #1 basically all year getting into the BCSCG isn’t nearly as interesting as an upset. Anyone that has watched this team lately would know that there was no way that a one-dimensional offense was going to beat them; ESPN just had to get their ratings.
Personally, I love watching the talking heads pull a 180 after the Arky beatdown.
Agreed 100%. There is some Saban KoolAid at play, but overall they are just trying to generate stoy lines.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 27, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
12-0
Great article Billy. This LSU team has kept me entertained all season. So much fun to watch them every week. I tip my hat to them and the coaching staff. About the game. All week I was worried about Tyler Wilson, Joe Adams and Jarius Wright. You know what they did…nothin. These stars on the other teams week after week never get their great stats after they play LSU because ‘’Wave after wave of talented players crash into opponents until the collective pounding takes its toll and they can’t keep their heads above water’’. You mentioned 14 players on this team for outstanding play. The funny part is you could name 25 more. That’s scary good. Most LSU teams have had good depth but Les has taken it to a new level. GO TIGERS!!!
Jarvis Landry
I remember one of his scouting notes was that he was a “ferocious block”. We haven’t seen too much of him catching the ball so far, but he has definitely lived up to his relentless blocking attitude.
by WhoDatSaintsLSU on Nov 26, 2011 10:25 PM CST reply actions
His coverage on kick returns is SICK!!
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes." – Winston Churchill
by Swangahouse on Nov 28, 2011 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
Yes General Maximus, we are entertained
We are oh so entertained!
I went to my very first LSU game 1978 against Ole Miss and watched LSU clobber johnny reb 30-8. (Geaux to hell Ole Miss, Geaux to hell) I was kissed at the 50 yard line by an LSU cheerleader who happened to be my student nurse when I was in the Lady of the Lake having my appendix removed at the age of twelve, making me a Boy Scout troop legend, and giving me a confidence with beautiful women that would never leave me.
I lived through hard, hard, hard times. I suffered through torrential rain and Miami hurricanes, but I was there when ET phoned home. I was down with the Dalton James gang and David Woodley gave me my BREC Trophy when my team won the Toy’s for Tots Bowl.
I’ve played in Billy Cannon’s back yard and I’ve seen Bobby Hebert bombed at 10am, I’ve enjoyed Tiger Stadium as an usher, a spectator and from the press box. Les Miles has answered my questions and commented on articles I’ve written.
I’ve bled purple and gold and have had some incredible moments as a fan. I’ve seen some great teams (late 70’s, eighties, 96, 97, 2001-2010 in person and up close an personal in some cases but in my life time I’ve never seen an LSU team as good and as fun to watch as this one.
I didn’t know a football could be this good.
I don’t think we will lose, i don’t think we can lose but even if something catastrophic happens this 12-0 2011 campaign was a beautiful thing to behold and I was oh so entertained!
Thanks for asking Capitan Billy!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
I would challenge you to find a single credible source that thinks LSU is NOT the best team in the nation at this point.
Because at 12-0, if they’re not talking about you, it’s because they’re talking about who might be able to stand on the field with you.
Saban, last night said that LSU was "supposedly the best team in
the country, and his players deserved to play in the BCS. Oh, you said credible, never mind.
by lioncity on Nov 27, 2011 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Classic Saban. No class.
He has gotten worse with the pressure of $6 million and losing to Miles more than he wins. Years back he would not disrespect an opponent that crassly. Now he feels he must to defend his role in his better team losing…again. Can’t wait for his excuse in NOLA…perhapshe will blame the fans as with their last loss in the dome.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 27, 2011 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he said "probably the best team in the country"
and I didn’t pick up any snark in his voice. I didn’t think it was disrespectful or classless. I don’t remember the BCS comment. Tracy Wolfson asked him if he thought they deserved to play in the BCS, and that’s when he said that wasn’t up to him, but he had a really great team who only lost in overtime to probably the best team in the country.
I’m all for vilifying the dude, just not unfairly ;)
by MikeDeTiger on Nov 27, 2011 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
Fair enough.
I just now say the clip and it was less offensive than I assumed, but in general his attitude and remarks this year have been less professional than I recall in prior years. I think his and his players comments after the LSU game were indicative of this point. it’s ok to think you should have won, not cool to say you are better and let them win, etc.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 27, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
I misspoke,
Nick said: "we lost one game, in overtime, to what seems to be (raise hands in “I don’t know gesture) the best team in the country. ”http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7284854" target="_blank">http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7284854
For the last two weeks the entire ESPN crew has been predicting LSU would lose
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 27, 2011 8:34 AM CST up reply actions
And I would like to think by now they've gotten the point
Though I’m fairly certain Robert Smith still hasn’t.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 27, 2011 8:41 AM CST up reply actions
I noticed that even Herbie
last night was backing off (a bit) from his schtick “Bama is the best team in the counrty”
Smith
What’s his deal? Is he still butthurt about us killng tOSU in 07? He’s the only one that repeatedly picks against LSU.
"Dracula and LSU are at their best after the sun goes down." - ESPN
by Chinese Bandit on Nov 27, 2011 5:55 PM CST up reply actions
Trev Alberts in disguise?
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 27, 2011 9:00 PM CST up reply actions
LSU has the top scoring offense in the SEC
Yes, it’s true. Over 12 games, LSU has scored more points than any other SEC team:
http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/leader/911/team/offense/split01/category09/sort01.html
(At time of posting, that table haasn’t been updated for Saturday’s games, so you need to add in Saturday’s scores manually to see the proof.)
An interesting stat would be points per yards gained…
We lead that stat too.
2011 LSU Accolades:
"Les has charm. Petrino has none." -Pat Forde, Yahoo Sports
"Saban thoroughly outcoached by Miles" -Jen Engel, Fox Sports
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples, SI
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton, Dr. Saturday
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
Not bad,
for a middling offense.
Head coach Les Miles of the LSU Tigers leads his team in their usual pregame warmup song "Head, Sheauxlders, Knees, and Teauxs." -Spencer Hall
by andyj on Nov 27, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
somebody needs to alert Thayer Evans at Foxsports
“But make no mistake, LSU isn’t one of those super teams of seasons past like USC in 2004. As talented as the Tigers are defensively, they are flawed offensively.”
We are? Damn, if only my team weren’t flawed offensively, they might lead the conference in sc…..oh, wait.
by MikeDeTiger on Nov 27, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
If they're not a super team like USC in 2004,
I’m sorry, apparently this was not the best football team money could buy.
by wadewilson on Nov 27, 2011 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
2004 season is an example of why there should not be a rematch
ESPN hyped that game from preseason, dubbing it “the game America ( aka ESPN ) wants to see” after LSU apparently ‘cheated’ them out of the game in 2003. And what did we get with the cough “obvious” #1 vs #2 matchup? A pathetic blowout, while Auburn was left out.
Now Auburn was undefeated as were OU & USC ( and would have probably beat either of those two teams ) but in regards to this year, if Ok St beats OU, how do we “know” they won’t be a good matchup vs LSU? How do we “know” Bama would beat them? Do recall, the week Ok St lost to Iowa St was the week of the tragic plane crash. And don’t forget that in the minds of many, that regulation FG was good, would have won the game, and this conversation wouldn’t even be taking place because they would still be undefeated.
But to the ‘super team’ comment, we’d curb-stomp 2004 USC – they didn’t see a defense anything like ours much less a true power running game. They beat a 4-7 Stanford team by 3, a 7-5 Or St team by 8, and a 6-6 UCLA team by 5. Not even in this 2011 team’s league.
Well, you are a bit flawed offensively.
“Flawed” doesn’t mean “poor.” I love your offensive style; run it down their throats, hit the play action deep. That said, your QBs are fairly incapable of driving the ball down the field with the drop-back/ intermediate passing game- I think the Bama game showed that limiting the run a bit and taking away the deep ball results in very little point production. Problem for everyone else is that Bama is the only team with the athletes to play ball with you up front without loading the box while simultaneously covering your WRs.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Well... Just wait til' next year
Zack (Alphabet) is 6’5 with a cannon for an arm and threw for over 2,600 yards and 32 touchdowns. He is listed as running a 4.7 40… So there is some mobility there as well.
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes." – Winston Churchill
by Swangahouse on Nov 28, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
4.7....i don't think so
i saw him run the bootleg against ole miss…he is not a runner.
Can't. Stop. Laughing...
2011 LSU Accolades:
"Les has charm. Petrino has none." -Pat Forde, Yahoo Sports
"Saban thoroughly outcoached by Miles" -Jen Engel, Fox Sports
"I really like corndogs" -Sparky
"Imperial Intergalactic Overlord Barkevious Mingo" -Andy Staples, SI
"If Alabama's defense is a boa constrictor, slowly sucking the life out of opposing offenses, LSU's is more like a goon that throws the offense into a burlap sack and starts beating it with a stick." -Matt Hinton, Dr. Saturday
"Oregon’s Chip Kelly is generally considered a coaching mastermind. Miles toyed with him here Saturday night." -Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports
"I don’t want to say that I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson…..but I think Mo Claiborne is faster than Patrick Peterson." -Les Miles
Saturday Night Slant
just did an article about that. Going into Arky game, LSU averaged 9.95 yds per point (best in the nation). And our opponents averaged 24.79 yds per point (also best in the nation).
by WhoDatSaintsLSU on Nov 27, 2011 9:17 PM CST up reply actions
Congratulations on the perfect season
I never doubted the Tigers would come back and crush Arky even when down by 14. And yes, Petrino is a classless douche. Les should’ve smacked him at midfield.
As a Bama fan, I look forward to a rematch with you guys, as seems probable. And should Bama win, I think the fair thing to do would be to have co-champions. Both are great teams and LSU shouldn’t be punished for having to play the same team twice.
You will crush Georgia, no doubt. Good luck, and hope to see you in the Big Easy!
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
by mr.peabody on Nov 27, 2011 8:59 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd
I applaud your levelheadedness. I think most LSU fans are against a rematch because we really don’t want to play Bama again. That game was rough on everyone.
Very true.
No team that wins a tough playoff game wants to give them another shot. There is a reason this has never happened and it is “unfair”. But fair ain’t part of the deal, so let’s get it on. The superior coaching and talent at OSU learned what UO and aTm learned as well, Miles is really good with long prep times.
And Saban blew it against Utah and Iowa St so I’m anxious to have Miles blow Saban’s mind yet again.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 27, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
Rematches happen in conference championship games. Is that unfair? I don’t think a rematch in the BCS would be unfair to LSU. It might be unfair to other 1 loss teams, but without a playoff there is no real fair solution regardless of who gets in.
And a team has already gotten to the BCS without winning their conference before. Nothing new there.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
My point Is very simple.
The anti-playoff logic generally stands on the importance of every game in the regular season makes the regular season as important as NFL playoffs. If you think it is fine for Bama to lose at home and skip the champ game to take another shot at LSU then that logic fails completely. rewarding a loss is a strange kind of fairness.
But as I said, fair ain’t part of the equation so bring’em on.
"They play violent football at risk of injury for their team and for their school. The gift that I'm given is to be allowed to be on the sideline with them and coach them." Les Miles
by ZimmZimmZalaBimm on Nov 27, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
I don’t think the possibility of a rematch disproves the idea that college football has the most meaningful regular season of any sport. That loss very well could have taken us out of contention. It was only through an unlikely string of events that we were able to get back in the lead for a spot in the bcs cg. All of those games where top 10 teams lost in the past two weeks were ridiculously exciting and had HUGE implications for the post season.
So yea, I do think the college football regular season is nearly as important as the NFL playoffs. But the CFB regular season isn’t “a playoff”. That argument has always been stupid because a playoff implies elimination from a loss, and teams with a loss make it to the bcs all the time.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
Actually, only Oklahoma State had to lose
Alabama never dropped lower than #3. There was no unlikely string of events that occurred. All that had to happen was OSU losing once, which they did, on the road, in double OT. And OSU losing was not unlikely. It’s unlikely for ANY team to go undefeated, statistically.
The greater point is
It may or may not be unfair to LSU, but it may be more likely unfair to other 1-loss teams who have actually won their divisions and especially their conference championships. SImply put rematches only exist b/c of the Notre Dame exemption in the BCS that precludes the BCS from having in a conference champion clause. Whether that’s right or wrong, I’m sick of arguing, just pointing out the greater point that the greater issue is not necessarily bout LSU & Bama.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." - H. L. Mencken
"The 2011 Tigers, on the field at least, are boring. See target, swing war club, rinse the brains and skull fragments off and repeat." - Billy Gomila
by Curtis Bleaux on Nov 27, 2011 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
Do you reward someone for losing to a bad team rather than the #1 team? That’s just as unfair as the rematch situation IMO. There really is no fair way to say this team over that or whatnot.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
You reward a team for wins
Look, focusing on who a team lost to is not and has never been convincing to me. I like to ask, “What have you accomplished?” A loss is a demerit, of course, but focusing on the loss ignores the wins — the accomplishments.
If OSU wins out, they will have more accomplishments than Bama — a conference title, and four wins over top 25 teams while Bama only has one or two, depending on PSU’s rank. OSU’s wins are just slightly better, they are overwhelmingly better, enough to overcome the quality of the team’s losses. If the accomplishments were near even, then Bama’s far better loss would be dispositive.
That said, we’ll play whoever. But I never ever want to hear how the regular season is a playoff ever again.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Yea, but look at what those wins consist of… a 1 point win over 6-6 Texas A&M. A 12 point win over 7-4 Texas.
Bama also has 3 wins over top 25 teams (though Auburn will likely drop out). We’ve dominated every game except LSU, which we lost in overtime. I don’t think the wins resume is much different between OSU and Bama, while our loss isn’t even close to as bad as theirs, and most importantly, I think we win the eyeball test in a landslide. We are only getting that rematch because everybody knows that bama and LSU are the two best teams by a significant margin.
Again, the “regular season is a playoff” has always been a load of crap, if you take it literally. Just look at 2004 or 2007. You won the BCS with two regular season losses. Clearly, it isn’t a playoff. The point is, the college football regular season is NEARLY as “do or die” as the NFL playoffs. In the nfl, with a really bad division you can practically get in the playoffs with a losing record.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
We don't know how to make this simpler
Alabama has already played LSU. Oklahoma State, should they get by Oklahoma, has not. One team had their crack at LSU, the other hasn’t.
BamaFan’s entire argument seems to be based on the close loss to LSU. My opinion is, I’m sorry, if that’s your best argument, it’s weak. Not a whole bunch else on that resume, except a great win vs. Arkansas. My point of fact is, a rematch would mean nobody is willing to give OSU a shot. How in the world should Bama get a do-over when another team hasn’t even gotten a first try?
If Bama had not played LSU in the regular season, but was still competing against OSU with one loss, I might honestly be lobbying for them. They pass my eye test better. But guess what? The eye test is speculative and certainly not definitive. I’d still weigh in resume. In this case, we don’t have to deal with the speculation of Bama vs. LSU. We’ve seen that one.
It is mystifying to me that BamaFan can’t understand this. NOBODY SHOULD CARE THAT YOUR TEAM “LOOKS” BETTER OR HAD A GREAT LOSS VS. LSU.
OSU could have earned their shot be beating unranked Iowa State.
They didn’t. They lost. The whole “not willing to give OSU a shot” is BS. You don’t give someone a shot, they are supposed to earn it. That’s a huge black mark on their resume, and I don’t think they have earned it. That’s why they are ranked fifth in the human polls. But yea, lets GIVE them a shot.
The point of the BCS is to pit the best two teams against each other. So how can you say that nobody should care if one team looks better than another and has a OT loss to the #1 ranked team as opposed to an embarrassing loss to an unranked team?
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
How, exactly
has Bama earned it?
Please. Let’s GIVE bama a shot, is what you’re saying. It’s utterly retarded, especially considering Bama already had their shot. Everything you say about OSU, you turn around completely when applying it to Alabama.
You guys are incapable of getting it. You are so convinced Alabama is really the best team in the country that you are completely blind to logic. All you want to do is talk about their loss. You refuse to talk about their wins, or discount them.
I give up. Stupidity is immune to education.
by MikeDeTiger on Nov 27, 2011 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
Because it’s obvious to everyone that there’s Alabama and LSU and then the rest of college football. Watch the games.
I’m not discounting their wins. I’m not discounting anything. You guys are the ones saying crap like “focusing on who a team lost to is not and has never been convincing to me” and “nobody should care who you lost to”. Who’s illogical and discounting things?
“I give up. Stupidity is immune to education.”
LOL. right back at you.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
Ummm...
How, exactly
has Bama earned it?
I don’t know, by having the best statistical season in the country? By blowing out everybody on the schedule except for the undisputed #1 team and going to OT with them?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
it's easy to have great stats and blowout wins
when you schedule Kent St and GSU.
nemo me impune lacessit
See my next comment.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
To add to this craziness...
The reason Alabama get’s the nod is the eyeball test that the voters are going on.
Alabama is 16th in the country on scoring offense and # 1 on scoring defense.
While OK St. is #2 on scoring offense they are 62nd in the country. Yes they can put up points, but they can’t stop a nosebleed. It is that disparity that doesn’t look good. Add in the crazy lose to Iowa State and Alabama is the clear #2 team on looks and stats alone.
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes." – Winston Churchill
*loss
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes." – Winston Churchill
And regarding the stats
Bama and LSU also happen to be #1 and #2 in the Footballoutsiders S&P+ rankings, which are adjusted for opponent strength.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I'll have what he's having.
OSU’s wins are just slightly better, they are overwhelmingly better
The highest ranked team they will have played (assuming they beat OU) was K-State. They barely beat them. They also squeaked by TAMU by a skinny point and struggled a bit with Texas. Bama’s best wins are whippings of Arkansas and Penn State. One game isn’t a reasonable sample size, but it’s worth saying that the TAMU team Okie State barely beat lost to Arkansas, who Bama crushed. Also, y’all keep missing the fact that we are riding your coat tails right to the game. Everybody saw that we played y’all even, so every time you do something to separate yourself from the pack you also separate us from it.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Twice as many wins over winning teams.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 8:56 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
OU will be their sixth game against winning teams from AQ conferences, all of them from the B12. They lost one to a 6-5 team and struggled in two others in addition to the 1 point win over a 6-6 team.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Yea… 2 of those teams being Tulsa, Louisianan-Lafayette…. A 1 point win over 6-6 Texas A&M, and a close game with a horrible Texas team. Their only real impressive wins are over Baylor and Kansas State.
As I count it, Bama has 7 wins against bowl eligible teams. The same number OSU will have if it wins Saturday.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
Again
Tulsa and ULL are a shit ton better than North Texas, Georgia Southern or Kent State lol.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
But who cares?
We ain’t trying to figure out who gets to go to the Chick-Fil-A Bowl over the Music City. We are comparing MNC contenders. Tulsa is an OK win. Hell, according to Sagarin’s poll (yes, I think the methodology is flawed), they are better than Iowa State. ULL is nothing though.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
If we're comparing two 11-1 teams (IF OSU beats OU, obviously)
Strength of schedule damn sure matters. And whether you want to believe it or not, OSU’s is greater than Bama.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
See my post below
but strength of overall schedule should matter less than the strength of the one loss and the performance against good teams, including margin of victory and statistical performance in those games.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Says you.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
North Texas and Kent State weren’t in that 7.
Georgia Southern is actually pretty damn good. They actually had an AP top 25 vote at one point. I don’t think you can say Tulsa and ULL are any better.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
"I don’t think you can say Tulsa and ULL are any better."
I can and I will. In fact it is utterly ludicrous to suggest that Tulsa and ULL, two bowl-bound teams, are no better than North Texas and Kent State, neither of whom finished above .500 in their conference. Or Georgia Southern, lone AP top 25 joke vote notwithstanding.
But don’t take my word for it, take Paul Myerberg’s:
Tulsa: #32
ULL: #61
North Texas: #91
Kent State: #92
http://www.presnapread.com/p-s-r-1-120-week-14-re-ranking-2/
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
Sure.
Again, who cares? A team in the top 2 had better curbstomp anybody outside the top 30 anyway.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
So it's top 30 that's relevant?
Oklahoma State has 6 wins against teams ranked in the top 30 of the BCS (7 pending a win over Oklahoma). Alabama has only 3.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't say that.
Just making the point that a MNC contender should curbstomp anybody ranked as low as those four teams. One team out of Bama or OSU has curbstomped everybody they’ve played that’s ranked below #1. The other has struggled with and/or even lost to several teams, including a couple of .500 level squads.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
And GaSo ranks well ahead of ULL in Sagarin's poll.
For what that’s worth, which ain’t much.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I wasn’t talking about North Texas and Kent State at all. I only speaking of Georgia Southern in regards to being similar to Tulsa and ULL.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
8-win FBS schools compared to a 9-win FCS one?
Yeah, not a self-serving argument at all.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
Tulsa is much better than GaSo imo.
ULL, notsomuch. They lost to Arizona for god’s sake, who lost to Oregon State, who lost to Sacramento State.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Perhaps. Tulsa lost to a lot of really good teams and won the rest of their games against mediocre teams. They may be better than I was giving them credit for. But GaSo’s tripple option was very impressive.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
That or Bama can't defend the option
I know which one I think it is, and I suspect if you do get your much hoped-for rematch you’ll find out too.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
Yep.
Can’t defend it a lick. By the way, did LSU become a triple option team when I wasn’t looking? I thought they were more of a pro-style attack that had a few speed option plays in the book.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Funny how those transitive properties work
Kent State lost to Northern Illinois, who was Kansas’ only FBS win the whole season.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
Not hanging my hat on Kent State. They suck.
Just saying that ULL is not a good team either.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
And yet, they had a better record
Than 3 of Alabama’s non-conference opponents.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 7:10 PM CST up reply actions
Yep.
OSU had better patsies. Crown their asses.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
A better schedule's a better schedule.
If you don’t like it, you should go talk to your AD.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
those "winning" teams
feasted on the weak underbelly of the FBS. The “BigXII” is not a powerful and deep conference. They all played each other and they all have an aversion to playing defense. It isn’t because the offenses are so good in the BigXII, it is their defenses S-U-C-K! Their idea of defense is to play prevent starting with the opening kick and hope for mistakes by the other team. The BigXII have zero quality wins out of conference. The best one they have is Oklahoma’s win over what we now see is a vastly over-ranked FSU team or Texas’s win over UCLA (hardly a national power). All a BigXII team had to do to have a “winning record” is not lose any OOC games and win vs Texas Tech, Kansas, Missouri, and Iowa State. If they lost one of those three, then they had to win one vs Texas A&M, Texas, Baylor, or Kansas State. Those teams, this year, are hardly top 25 teams (I know that Texas, Baylor and Kansas State are ranked, but they don’t shouldn’t be)
"I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know."
IM FUCKING SICK OF ARGING THIS SHIT
I’m a proponent of conference champs. You don’t win a conference, fuck off. The end.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." - H. L. Mencken
"The 2011 Tigers, on the field at least, are boring. See target, swing war club, rinse the brains and skull fragments off and repeat." - Billy Gomila
by Curtis Bleaux on Nov 27, 2011 6:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Then the BCS is unnecessary.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
No shit
I’m a playoff proponent. In that case, your ass wouldn’t have to be here trolling for your team to get into the BCS, you would just go the playoff & I’d be ok with it. Instead we have this shit BCS system where assholes form other schools come fill up threads with their biased arguments.
You didn’t win a conference, you didn’t win a division, you didn’t even win your state- We won all but the 1st which is pending. What’s unnecessary is a system where a team who didn’t win any title of any kind all year can jump over actual champions b/c they won a beauty contest.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." - H. L. Mencken
"The 2011 Tigers, on the field at least, are boring. See target, swing war club, rinse the brains and skull fragments off and repeat." - Billy Gomila
by Curtis Bleaux on Nov 28, 2011 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
And the only reason this whole non-conference champ shit even exists
is effing Notre Dame. If those assholes were in a conference or didn’t exist, this argument would be moot & they’d have the conference champion clause in the BCS.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." - H. L. Mencken
"The 2011 Tigers, on the field at least, are boring. See target, swing war club, rinse the brains and skull fragments off and repeat." - Billy Gomila
by Curtis Bleaux on Nov 28, 2011 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, common ground!
We both hate Notre Dame and would prefer a playoff. Nice to meet you Curtis.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Shakes hand with right
but shoots bird with left, LOL
I just hate the BCS b/c of all the case pleading that goes on.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." - H. L. Mencken
"The 2011 Tigers, on the field at least, are boring. See target, swing war club, rinse the brains and skull fragments off and repeat." - Billy Gomila
by Curtis Bleaux on Nov 28, 2011 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
hate to break it to you Curtis
but a playoff won’t fix that. It will still be based off the polls at some level. There is no way the big conferences agree to a playoff that just includes conference champs – and quite frankly, they shouldn’t. Whether it was an 8 or 16 team playoff – obviously Bama should be in it. And they wouldn’t if there were just conference champs. So it’ll either be based off of the BCS poll – with the 9th or 17th team pleading; or based off of conference champs plus wildcards, with the same result.
No
Instead of arguing over who deserves to play for the title, you’re arguing over who gets into the tournament.
What is so difficult for people to understand that a tournament winner has to emerge & beat multiple good teams, where in the BCS title game multiple good teams with good chances get left out. How can none of you see this.
Instead of arguing over merits of playing for the title, we’d be arguing over who gets into the tournament. It isn’t rocket science. In basketball, they argue over who gets into the tournament, not if the championship game pitted the 2 best teams. And why? B/c the champion of that game has emerged having to play multiple teams deemed worthy to be there. Where in football you can have multiple undefeated teams AND have a national champion.
It utterly baffles me that people can’t make this distinction.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." - H. L. Mencken
"The 2011 Tigers, on the field at least, are boring. See target, swing war club, rinse the brains and skull fragments off and repeat." - Billy Gomila
by Curtis Bleaux on Nov 28, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
you're right Curtis,
Everyone who opposes playoffs is an idiot….
I get the distinction, I just prefer what we have – or a plus one, or the old bowl system before the BCS to a playoff.
So
between Bama getting another shot & the hypothetical of ending up with multiple undefeated teams at the end of the year, it makes the whole “every game is a playoff!” argument a bunch of rubbish. It’s a playoff for some teams, it’s a double elimination beauty contest for others.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." - H. L. Mencken
"The 2011 Tigers, on the field at least, are boring. See target, swing war club, rinse the brains and skull fragments off and repeat." - Billy Gomila
by Curtis Bleaux on Nov 28, 2011 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
Amen
I was tired of the rematch discussion before the first LSU-Bama game was even played. At this point it’s so irritating it’s lessening my enjoyment of college football in general, since no one, anywhere, wants to talk about anything else. I passed a gray haired librarian this morning who greeted me with “so you think it’ll be LSU-Bama?”
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
Did you ask about the carpet matching the drapes?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Just because it's happened before
doesn’t mean it’s the thing to do. Nebraska and Oklahoma both made it, but in retrospect pretty much everyone agreed they were the wrong teams to put in there. USC definitely should have gone over OU in 2003. They actually changed the rules after 2003 to prevent a reoccurance of that situation, and it has worked until this year. It is definitely ridiculous to be rewarded for not even winning your division.
My idea is that every specific body strives to become master over all space and to extend its force (--its will to power:) and to thrust back all that resists its extension.
they changed the BCS rules to prevent the computers from having such and impact, not to prevent teams that don’t win their conference from getting in.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
the computer impact they didn't like
was OU getting in circa 2003 without winning their conference. Effectively, you are incorrect about that.
Nope.
It was that the #1 team in the human polls got left out because of a bad computer rating.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
Oklahoma was their #1 team in the human polls
until they failed to win their conference. That is what the voters couldn’t stand. The voters did not want a non-conference winner and they pitched a fit about it. Had OU won their conference, they would have stayed #1. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that USC was always their #1 team. They weren’t.
The difference between us and yall is most here don’t even want LSU to play for a national title if we lose to UGA saturday. I sure don’t. And LSU would STILL have the best resume in the country, by far. It’s terminally dumb to not win your conference, but somehow win the country. I used to think the “Alabama claims 1,234,302 titles” was a fun joke. Now it’s obvious you guys are completely blind to logic and fairness. You want to be handed a chance at a title, after losing it AT HOME. You don’t want a team that would have a better resume to even have a shot.
Just say it. The real reason Bammers want a shot is because they believe they’ll win. Yall really think you have the better team. In which case, if you’re correct, Alabama did exactly what you’re accusing OSU of…..losing to an inferior team. Except they did it on the road and yall did it AT HOME. You have no logic. You have no conference pride. You have no sense of college football history and the significance of the season long resume. You are whining about a team being “given” a chance and acting like your team has earned something.
Again, stupidity is immune to education, and I must decline to continue this further.
by MikeDeTiger on Nov 27, 2011 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, I have to disagree
As a Georgia fan, I would love nothing more than to win Saturday…but not just for the obvious reason.
It would likely result in an Alabama-LSU matchup anyways (judging by the media), creating a scenario where BOTH teams did not even win the conference. In 2007, they kept Georgia out of the title game on the grounds of not having won their conference. Having everything come full circle, the media eating their own words, and getting to hear what contrived excuses they would have for putting LSU and Bama in the game would be strangely enjoyable.
by Swarles_Barkley on Nov 28, 2011 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
But on the rest of your comment,
I agree with everything you said. I’m just fundamentally opposed to their use/non-use of this idea that you have to win the conference. It either should be a rule or not. No middle ground.
by Swarles_Barkley on Nov 28, 2011 12:06 AM CST up reply actions
Oklahoma was their #1 team in the human polls
until they failed to win their conference. That is what the voters couldn’t stand. The voters did not want a non-conference winner and they pitched a fit about it. Had OU won their conference, they would have stayed #1. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that USC was always their #1 team. They weren’t.
But regardless of how they got there, the #1 team in the polls got left out, and that’s what everyone was pissed about. Did they make a rule that says if you are in a conference you must win the conference to get in? No. They changed the system so that a unanimous #1 from the human polls is guaranteed in.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
Close.
Just say it. The real reason Bammers want a shot is because they believe they’ll win. Yall really think you have the better team. In which case, if you’re correct, Alabama did exactly what you’re accusing OSU of…..losing to an inferior team.
I think Bama CAN beat LSU and don’t believe that about anyone else in the country. I believe Bama is essentially equal to, not better than, LSU. And I know that a 6-5 ISU team that barely beat Northern Iowa and Connecticut to be bowl eligible would get annihilated by either Bama or LSU. That loss is inexcusable and should be a disqualifier.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
don't lump me in with "us" on this one
winning the conference is not in the rules. It should not be enforced. If LSU loses to UGA – which I highly doubt, they should still be #1 and in the BCS NC game.
The conference issue is not why Bama should not be the only team in the discussion. It’s because they lost at home, they’ve only beaten two decent teams all year, and they’ve already had a chance to beat LSU. If OSU wins – they should jump Bama. They’ll be the best team in a conference that at least this year, is better than the SEC from top to bottom – and their loss, while to a worse team, is much more explainable given the situation in their school that day.
It's not about enforcing a rule
But voters are perfectly free to factor a conference championship into their opinion.
And even with the losses, there’s still the matter of OSU pretty clearly having better wins than Bama as well. But Tadpole and company don’t want to count that because, well, it hurts their case and they know it.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Just added a post or two about that Billy
I agree about OSU having clearly better wins. And I think voters should be able to factor in conference champs. But I think it’s silly to argue LSU is automatically out if they lose next week. Clearly that is not how past history has worked – and it should not. We could easily imagine a situation where one team goes 12-0 and every other major conference team has two losses. If the 12-0 team loses in its conference game – they still have a better record than everyone else. That ought to be considered.
I don't necessarily disagree
But I think that’s something for the voters to decide. I certainly don’t think a conference championship game should count more than a regular season record, but I do think it’s fair to count a conference championship as something of a tiebreaker if you feel like two (or more teams) are more or less even.
Basically, yeah there’s no rule that you HAVE to be a conference champion to play for a title, but there’s no rule against voters weighing a conference championship in their decision making either.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with you Billy.
I was disagreeing with Mike’s contention that a loss next week should automatically rule LSU out. I think that is ridiculous, given the rest of the season.
But aren't you aguing to change the system
while others are arguing how to apply it? No-one I’ve seen argues the current system is perfect. To me, the bigger (and longer-term) question is whether to change it. However I strongly believe that, whether or not we think the current system should be changed, we need to apply it for the current season.
And if you are going to apply it, then we should be arguing about it in those terms. The stated purpose of the BCS is as follows:
“It is designed to ensure that the two top-rated teams in the country meet in the national championship game…”
That’s a quote from the BCS website. Dig deeper, and you realize they don’t really define what “top-rated” means, but the way it is applied by the BCS is through their voting / computers ranking system. And that, ultimately, leaves it open to the voters to choose who is top-rated, without stipulating whether or not a team has won a division or anything else.
Even if the rules stipulated that a team must have won its conference (i.e. ignoring the ND argument), there will always be controversy over who are the best two teams in the country. I can just imagine all of us arguing that it is outrageous that not having won one’s conference automatically precluded us from the NCG, if the prevailing view was that we were one of the two best teams in the country. Even now, there are undoubtedly USC fans pointing out that their Gamecocks are ranked higher than UGA, and how outrageous it is that UGA is representing the East in the SECCG. But there is a simple answer: them’s the rules.
With the BCS, the rules are that the top 2 teams get to the NCG, irrespective of whether or not a team wins its division or championship. And no-one can seriously argue that it isn’t possible for the best 2 teams in the country to be in the same division. If we don’t like the rules then we should be arguing that the rules should be changed, not that they should be ignored because one team didn’t win its division.
And I say this as an LSU fan who would prefer not to see a rematch. I just think we have to respect the rules, and argue about whether they are correct or not for subsequent seasons.
Your argument would be more convincing....
if they weren’t all contrived to support your team. For instance, LSU is #1 when you want to count coup for quality losses; they are “supposedly #1” when Saban speaketh.
It’s hardly surprising that a Bama fan can come up with arguments for nonconference division winners to get rematches in the BCS this year. It’s just not convincing.
I think voters can legitimately say: we know Bama is not as good as LSU — they lost at home. We don’t know if OkSt is; few shared opponents. Let’s use the NC to find out something we don’t know, not to give a disappointed team a second chance.
Don’t really need an argument for non-conf champs. No rule against it. It’s happened before. Done.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
Not a rule...
but they have used it before as an excuse to keep teams out. It’s one of those unwritten rules that is either used or not depending on the convenience.
by Swarles_Barkley on Nov 27, 2011 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
Well there's no rule that a 2 loss team can't get in
But realisitically two loss teams can’t get in, barring extraordinary and unusual circumstances. Same with teams that can’t win their conference. I don’t know that it has to be a black and white rule, but if I were a voter I’d be heavily disinclined to include any team that failed to win its conference; even moreso if they didn’t win their division. I could imagine some scenario where I would vote for a team that didn’t win its conference, but it’d be unlikely.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
"realistically two loss teams can't get in"
Like 2007 LSU? It still happens. They acknowledged there’s no rule about maximum amount of losses. I’m just saying if there’s no rule about winning your conference, then do your job and vote regardless of conference standings. It’s just a go-to reason for someone who wants to see a certain team in the title game.
by Swarles_Barkley on Nov 28, 2011 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
nevermind that all teams cept KU had two losses in 2007
but by all means, keep up the verbal diarrhea.
nemo me impune lacessit
"barring extraordinary and unusual circumstances"
2007 was extraordinary and unusual. This year ain’t. In 2007 a 2 loss team got in because there was no other zero or one loss team from a major conference who won their conference. This year there are one loss teams from major conferences who did win their conferences (assuming OSU/V Tech win). Therefore, the circumstances are not unusual or extraordinary, and no reason to elevate a team that didn’t win its conference.
Obviously if lightning strikes and both OSU (possible) and V Tech (highly unlikely) lose, both Bama and Houston will have much better arguments.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
Clemson beat Va. Tech 23-3 earlier.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
VA Tech and Stanford are out in my book.
They both lost by 20. You shouldn’t be in the national championship picture if you lose by 20.
VT is out
They haven’t played anybody. Their schedule is truly awful and they played no one OOC. Bama’s resume would crush VT’s, even with a conference title. It’s about the only positive VT would have.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Just because it's not a rule...
… Doesn’t mean its not a massive black mark against your team. There’s no rule about losing to Iowa St either, but you’re holding that against OSU.
I think it is entirely appropriate and within a voter’s discretion to consider whether a team won a conference title. It is a huge, huge datapoint against the Tide, which can’t be resolved with a mere waive of the hand.
There’s no rule? Who gives a shit? What does that matter at all? Are you suggesting we can’t even consider that a team failed to win its conference?
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
I’m not saying you can’t. I’m saying you shouldn’t. Most of the time, it’s irrelevant because teams in contention for the bcs usually win their conference. But sometimes you have a crazy year with unusual circumstances. The circumstances this year have lead to a pretty clear #1 and #2 that just happen to be in the same division.
Maybe it should be a consideration, but then when you look at how close bama and lsu played, and how dominating both teams have been outside of that game, I think the concern is easily dismissed.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
’m not saying you can’t. I’m saying you shouldn’t.
Oh, at least you admit it. That is a terrible idea. Throwing out data, especially if it hurts your argument, is an awful way to evaluate teams. Winning your conference matters — it is a tangible accomplishment. Just because there’s no rule that says “Conference Champions Only”, that does not translate to “We Cannot Consider Championships.”
We are at an impasse. I think your method of evaluation is absolutely asinine. I don’t think we need a rule for Conference Champions to simply value them in an evaluation of teams.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
It’s not about throwing out data. It’s putting it in context. You have a clear #1 and #2 in the same division who played each other exceedingly close in a 9-6 OT game. It’s clear to everyone that there is a huge gap between Bama/LSU and the rest of CFB.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
"You have a clear #1 and #2"
This is the problem with the pro-rematch arguments. You start from this non-falsifiable premise that Bama and LSU are “clearly #1 and #2.” You don’t have any support for this, just that it’s “clear to everyone.” But that isn’t a premise, it’s a conclusion, and treating it as a premise is a logical fallacy.
Poseur (and others) have explained repeatedly why it is not “clear” that Bama is “obviously” #2 – in fact, there is a very good argument for OSU is #2. Until Bama fans are willing to admit that, we really can’t have an argument.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
No one has presented a case that they are #2
except OMGz conference champyonshipz!!! and the fact that Tulsa is better than North Texas.
Here’s my main case:
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/fplus2011
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
This is, of course, opinion. It’s not unanimous, but the vast majority of the country shares the opinion that Alabama is a clear #2. Oklahoma State is #5 in the human polls.
People watch the games and formulate opinions, not just on Win or Loss, but what the games look like and how they transpire. People have watched LSU put together one of the most impressive seasons in recent memory. They saw that Alabama play LSU down to the wire and dominate every other game on the schedule. They saw OSU have to come back just to lose to a medicore Iowa State team. They saw them beat 6-6 Texas A&M by one point. That’s why they are 5th in the human polls.
Giving OSU the nod because they beat a few more 6-6 or 7-5 teams and play in a conference where their best competition is Kansas State is a load of total bullshit if you ask me.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
It's generally understood that the Big XII is the best, or at the very least, the second best, conference in football
Arguing otherwise doesn’t boost your credibility. Although it does dovetail nicely with your sig quote.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
It's also generally understood that Bama is the second best team.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Your opinion is noted.
And has been noted, repeatedly. You can feel free to assume that everyone here knows how you feel about things and can stop responding to every single post whether it’s directed at you or not.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Looks like your SRS fella there agrees.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
the problem Zoltar - is that we don't have a clear 1 &2.
We have a clear 1. And 4 teams that some people would consider #2 – Bama, OSU, VA Tech, and Stanford. I rule VA Tech and Stanford out because they lost by 20 points. Can’t do that.
For OSU and Bama – clearly Bama has the better loss, though OSU’s is explainable given their program’s circumstances, and it was in double overtime.
On the other hand, OSU clearly has the better wins. Not by some enormous amount – but overall – better.
And – Bama already played LSU. If neither Bama or OSU had played LSU, in some abstract world, Bama probably gets the nod. But Bama has played LSU, at home, and lost. If OSU wins this week – they should go to New Orleans.
I wonder what LSU fans would be saying
if they had lost in OT vs Alabama a few weeks ago?
I want the two best teams to play for the National Championship. IMO the two best teams right now are LSU #1 and Alabama #2.
You don’t see complaining “they already had their shot” for the NCAA Basketball tournament. How many times did a non-conference winner win March Madness? (lots).
Winning your conference just means you are the best in your conference, by being 2nd in your conference or divisions does not automatically mean that you are not the second best team in land.
In Baseball, many people consider the AL East the best division in all baseball. There are plenty of times when the second best team in that division will play for and win the championship.
If your team is the best, they you want to beat the next best to remove all doubt. If LSU plays a lesser team (like OSU, Stanford, or VT) in the BCS CG then the whole thing is further validated as worthless.
"I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know."
I actually hate the wild card, too
And would have no problem if the NCAA went back to champions only NCAA tourney.
I hate how we render the regular season meaningless in baseball. We play 162 for a reason. And it’s ruined pennant races.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Baseball is unquestionably the worst sport to bring up as a playoff advocate
It’s probably the only sport whose regular season is long enough where you can confidently determine the best team based on regular season record alone. But instead they throw all that out and let some 85-win team try their hand at a best three out of five series. It’s about the worst thing to do if you’re attempting to determine a ‘true’ champion.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 6:31 PM CST up reply actions
well, for starters
if LSU had lost – it would have been as the visiting team. And LSU also beat an Oregon team out of the stadium – which is still a better win than anything Bama has.
How we'd feel if we'd lost to Alabama
Is a two way street. I have no doubt we’d be trying to beg our way into the BCS game as well. But Bama fans would be just as justified in telling us we’d had our chance and to piss off as well.
I’ll say this, LSU’s schedule would still stack up better compared to OSU than Bama’s does.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And in the EPL
there is no playoff or a poll & the winner of the regular season is crowned champion & that’s the fairest way to do it. But all of you hate soccer, so what’s your point?
If we’re comparing all sorts of sports, yeah you can make all sorts of assumptions. Guess what? Canada could probably finish 1st-5th at the Olympics in Hockey but guess what they only get to send one team. Most European countries could do well in a 32 team World Cup but guess what? They only get 11 auto qualifying bids.
The main difference in this is some of you have this notion that it’s about putting the best 2 teams on the field regardless, where some of us understand what a tournament champion actually is- the team that emerges from the tournament regardless of how “talented” or how much “better” or “worse” they are to everyone else.
The bottom line regardless of whether the BCS pits the 2 best teams or not, I-A football is stacked towards BCS conferences & any system where a participant has a different route to go than a compatriot is obviously flawed & wrong. Either you’re a I-A team or you’re not. So let’s breakoff and have a BCS division & a non-BCS division so we can quit having football versions of the white & colored fountains.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." - H. L. Mencken
"The 2011 Tigers, on the field at least, are boring. See target, swing war club, rinse the brains and skull fragments off and repeat." - Billy Gomila
by Curtis Bleaux on Nov 28, 2011 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
I like soccer
But I wanted to highlight another thing you said:
The bottom line regardless of whether the BCS pits the 2 best teams or not, I-A football is stacked towards BCS conferences & any system where a participant has a different route to go than a compatriot is obviously flawed & wrong. Either you’re a I-A team or you’re not. So let’s breakoff and have a BCS division & a non-BCS division so we can quit having football versions of the white & colored fountains.
Absolutely agree. I hate how we keep the Sun Belt around for the free wins, but then refuse to grant them access to the real postseason. Either they are D-1 or they aren’t.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Its more than a notion. Its what the rules currently say.
There is a lack of clarity here as to what people are arguing about. The purpose of the BCS as it currently stands is to put the 2 best teams on the field for the NCG. That much is unarguable – their literature expressly says so.
There is an ongoing and heated debate about which team is the second best team and should join LSU in the NCG (God I hope we win on Saturday, and it stays as simple as that…) – that debate will continue even after Sunday, especially if OSU is selected because the Alabama fans just won’t let it go.
However your point is not about which is the second best team, it is about what is the best way to choose a national champion (e.g. a playoff). That’s an entirely different issue, and one on which I expect there will be considerable discussion in the coming months. But for now, we have a system that everyone has agreed to, whether we like it or not.
If you want to debate changing the system, that’s great, but let’s not confuse that with a debate about which is the second best team, i.e. how to implement the current system.
PS. I like soccer too!
by Energyman on Nov 29, 2011 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, yes.
Are you suggesting we can’t even consider that a team failed to win its conference?
If we are talking human voters, they are instructed to rank every team 1-25 based on who they believe to be the best, second best, etc. Otherwise the top 6 teams (save for a Boise, et al) should be the 6 conference champs at the end of the year, every year. No?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
It's clearly not who you "think" is best
It’s who you think has had the best year. It’s an important distinction. For instance I absolutely think Oklahoma is better than Texas Tech, but Texas Tech won that ball game – I still think Oklahoma is the better team, but I’d have to punish them for losing. Same with Wisconsin, who I really think might be the second best team in the country in terms of the eyeball test. I couldn’t vote them #2, because they lost two games despite looking like the #2 team.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 9:44 AM CST up reply actions
Well, I disagree on Wisky.
But agree on your main point. The thing is, when forced to compare one-loss teams, it makes sense to look at the one loss to see which one is more forgivable and/or if one is bad enough to eliminate someone. After that, you look at the games against common opponents if there are any and games against quality opponents. Margin of victory and statistical performance comes into play as well. Bama comes out on top in the vast majority of these categories.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Do not start at losses - and certainly don't stop there
We should not look at the loss first. That’s a terrible way to evaluate teams. Sure, we should look at losses, but that isn’t what distinguishes teams.
We should look at WINS. What did you accomplish? Bama’s argument is that they beat Arkansas and PSU (and only three teams with a winning record). OSU’s is that they won arguably the toughest conference in the country this year, and beat 4-5 ranked teams, and 6 teams with winning records. And their best win – KSU – is roughly equivalent to Bama’s best win – Arkansas.
And how terrible is OSU’s loss, really? They lost on the road, in a short week, in double OT, on the day of an unspeakable tragedy effecting their school, to a bowl-eligible team. It’s hardly a crap loss. It’s not as good as Bama’s, but Bama was at home after an off-week.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
by Poseur on Nov 28, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Come on, man.
At least keep it credible.
And how terrible is OSU’s loss, really? They lost on the road, in a short week, in double OT, on the day of an unspeakable tragedy effecting their school, to a bowl-eligible team. It’s hardly a crap loss.
Iowa State is bowl eligible by one game. It’s a crap loss and everything else is excuses. Also, why are you so willing to forgive the one-point win over TAMU?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Spin machine going into overdrive.
I bet most of those football players didn’t even know who the women’s basketball coach was. Blaming the plane crash is a load of BS. You think that had even a fraction of the effect on OSU that the sandusky crap and firing of Joe Pa had on Penn State? And I don’t see people excusing their only losses aside from the loss to Bama on all that crap.
We had a week off? Both teams has the same time to prepare of the game.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
Missed this before.
And their best win – KSU – is roughly equivalent to Bama’s best win – Arkansas.
So, a complete whitewashing of a slightly higher ranked team is roughly equivalent to a nail-biter over a slightly lower ranked team.
Gotcha. You can’t possibly believe this yourself.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
A win is a win
I wasn’t aware wins count less if it’s close. That was the standard way to discredit LSU last year — all of those almost losses that we called wins.
How good is Arkansas really? They have the USC win after the Cocks entire offense was seemingly out. And they needed a miracle comeback to beat A&M. Yeah, Bama’s win over Arkansas is roughly equivalent to OSU’s over KSU. And that’s before we look at beating OU and Baylor.
And you keep pretending ISU is some terrible team. They aren’t. Yes, they are barely bowl eligible. a feat they pulled in the toughest conference in the country this season. ISU isn’t LSU or anything, but they aren’t, well, as bad as ISU usually is. ISU beat Baylor and played OU tough. They aren’t chumps.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
'Bout even with Auburn I'd say.
They didn’t beat Baylor, by the way. Baylor whipped that ass. They beat Northern Iowa, Iowa (OT), Connecticut, Texas Tech, Kansas(OT), and Oklahoma State.
They lost to Texas, Missouri, Baylor, TAMU, and Oklahoma. The closest of those losses was 17 points.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
And this
I wasn’t aware wins count less if it’s close.
They don’t when competing for your conference or for seedings based purely on records. Of course they count less when trying to subjectively choose one team over another based on performance. But you knew that already.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
4.7 MOV differential
OSU played a tougher schedule and Bama has a MOV advantage on the season of 4.7. That matters, but it’s not a gaping advantage, and you act like OSU has barely been squeaking by. They’ve played three whole games decided by a TD or less.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
I don't "act like" anything.
But Bama hasn’t had a close game save LSU. They have had several and lost one to a mediocre-at-best team.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
No.
But that’s willfully misreading my argument.
I’m saying that conference titles matter. Of course they are used to evaluate teams. Are they dispositive? No. I never said they were. But to not even consider a conference title is to devalue conference titles in a way that I find to be an anathema to college football. Conference titles absolutely matter.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Sure they matter.
You get a nice banner to hang up that says you won it and nobody can take that away. Got a good friend who has an SEC Championship ring that he values with his life. We are talking about the BCS system rules here, which are written to specifically devalue conference titles.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
No they are not
Just because the rules do not say “You must win a conference title to be in the title game” that does NOT mean “Voters may not value conference titles.”
You are inventing rules. A non-title winning team is eligible for the BCS title game – this is the rule. The rule is not conference championships hold no value. They are saying that failing to win your conference does not disqualify you — which is fine.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
No, but there is a rule written
to cover a scenario where two teams from the same conference can play for the BCS with neither winning their conference. If that isn’t a devaluation of conference titles, then I don’t know what is.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
That hardly qualifies as a devaluation of conference titles.
That’s a fallback plan designed for a season like this.
What type of season is this?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Fairness, Smairness,
The irony is that the BCS which actually, titles itself as “Every game counts” has as LSU “reward” for beating Bama at Bryant-Denny, the opportunity to prepare for play, and risk injury against Georgia, while Alabama “reward” for losing at Bryant – Denny, is to have a bye into the national chmpionship, prepare only for LSU, and risk no injury, seems the obvious, incentive is to lose. Counter to everything it is supposed to be.
"risk injury against Georgia"
In all fairness, don’t you think it is within the realm of possibility that you’re not just risking injury, but possibly…possibly risking losing to Georgia. I know it’s not at all likely, but stranger things have happened.
by Swarles_Barkley on Nov 27, 2011 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
to hear the media tell it
It wouldn’t matter if we lose to you or not, they’re already putting us in it if espn can be trusted (read: not much). Of course there’s the risk of a loss which is why winning your conference is that much harder than coming in 3rd and going to the sugar bowl, which is where bama belongs.
by ORtigerfan on Nov 28, 2011 12:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Totally agree
You guys got shafted by having to play Georgia. I’m just curious as to what happens if you half your team gets suspended and lose against Georgia (it would take some event along these lines). Do two teams play (Bama/LSU), neither of which won their conference?
by Swarles_Barkley on Nov 28, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
Yes
and UGA gets the SEC an extra paycheck.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Hahaha
Yeah, pretty much. I’m happy with a 10 win streak after 0-2.
by Swarles_Barkley on Nov 28, 2011 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
No we didn't get shafted!
Going to the SEC championship game is a reward! It’s the number one goal of all teams in the conference. Saying otherwise is crazy.
If LSU loses to Georgia I don’t think LSU should go to the championship unless both V Tech and OSU lose. But no matter what an LSU loss would be fatal to Alabama. Because right now their only defense is that their loss came to the undisputed, obvious #1 team. If Georgia beats LSU, LSU is no longer this juggernaut of a team, and Bama’s loss is just a normal loss to a good but not great SEC rival.
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
Nope.
an LSU loss would be fatal to Alabama.
Dollars to donuts we move up to #1 in that case.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Getting a chance to play for an SEC Championship is not being shafted.
If you were an LSU fan in the 90’s, after the expansion, you never believed LSU would ever make it to Atlanta.
Getting into the BCS National Championship is like being elected, you might not really belong there, and you might suck once you’re in the spotlight.
The SEC Championship (or any conference championship) is a title that’s earned on the field.
by wadewilson on Nov 28, 2011 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And the only real title there is.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I know that I don't want to play Bama again and it has to do more with the feeling that they have the best chance to beat us
I believe that they are the best team outside of LSU and our game with them was a hard hitting war that went into overtime. Who knows what will happen if we play again but its no doubt a game that will be a tough contested game.
Why are we discussing Bama in our write up about the Arky game?
I had much more respect for them before this season…now their fan base just seem sad.
If we play them again, great… We’ll beat them again b/c we have the better team, the better coach, and the better fans.
by Displaced Tiger on Nov 27, 2011 8:42 PM CST reply actions
Agreed with almost everything you said here...
You had me until “and the better fans”.
Says who? And fans don’t even play, so it’s irrelevant.
by Swarles_Barkley on Nov 27, 2011 11:59 PM CST up reply actions
I Say, that's who!!!
Just read “their” blogs and ours and if you can’t tell who has the better fans then you’re wasting your time commenting here.
Deserves got nothin' to do with it...
You must not have visited TigerDroppings.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Haven't bothered at this point.
I stopped by here since we’re playing LSU next week. I’m as annoyed at Bama fans’ collective entitled attitude as the rest of you, but I tend to let your character show it instead of saying you’ve got the ‘best fans’. Anyways, didn’t mean for it to be a big deal. Best of luck this weekend.
by Swarles_Barkley on Nov 28, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
I'm a Bama fan.
And yeah, we are entitled to the #2 spot.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Not trolling at all...
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
How is that trolling?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
In any case, I'll leave.
I can see that I’m wanted around here about as much as a rematch. Again, go whip some UGA ass and we’ll see y’all in NOLA, aight?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Stolen from the Rant
A nice summary of the resumes:
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Nice. Wow.
Several things jump out at me immediately.
VA tech’s schedule/resume sucks. Badly.
Stanford is very meh.
Okie state’s best win (if they beat oklahoma) is slightly better than Bama’s best win. Could call that a tie. But their next four wins are better than Bama’s next win. Ouch. I notice none of the bama supporters around here have metioned Okie State crushing Baylor, Missou or Texas, all of whom are pretty good, and easily comparable or better to Auburn this year.
But here’s the real news. Vandy is the 5th best win Bama has this year. Below Florida, who is terrible, and Tennessee, who is truly awful. Bama has wins over 4 teams outside of the top 90 in the country. Okie state’s worst win is better than any of those.
That should matter.
You're right about VT
VT has no case, even with a win. Stanford barely has a case. It’s really between Bama and OSU, and OSU has to win.
Bama’s positives:
Best loss
MOV (though their avg. MOV is about 4 PPG better than OSU’s)
An all-time great defense
Bama’s negatives:
Only one marquee win
Three wins over teams with winning records
The whole rematch thing, and the fact their first game was at home
Failed to win even a division title
OSU’s positives:
Lots of quality wins
Won the best conference (or at least a close second)
A video game offense
OSU’s negatives:
Lost to a good not great ISU team
Lots of quality wins, but they are primarily over teams ranked 16-30, not 1-15
Played close games against really good teams (I’m not sure this is a negative, but Tadpole really thinks it is, so here it is)
Can’t play defense. Like, at all.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
LOL
Played close games against really good teams (I’m not sure this is a negative, but Tadpole really thinks it is, so here it is)
TAMU is “really good”? And Iowa State is “good not great”?
Seriously, have you looked into this at all? They have five losses by 23 points each.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
OSU is Arkansas in the Big 12 with a 28 year old QB. Look at their games versus Texas A&M. Pretty identical. Either Bama or LSU would likely beat OSU by 2 touchdowns if not more. Want to see what would happen to them in the BCS? Go watch a replay of Bama or LSU vs Arkansas.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
They all know that.
That’s why they are looking for any excuse to move them up.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
as an Arkansas fan
I agree with this.
Would you argue with Arkansas being in the Championship Game?
"I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know."
If Arkansas had beaten LSU on Friday? No.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
But they couldn't
and neither can Okie State.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Nor could Bama.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
sure they could have.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Coulda shoulda woulda
DIDN’T.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
That is accurate,
But nobody else could.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Maybe, maybe not.
Okie State’s schedule suggests their more willing to step up in weight class than Bama is.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 8:48 PM CST up reply actions
If you believe the BCS computers.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Over you?
Uh…yeah.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 8:55 PM CST up reply actions
Not over me.
Again, #25 SOS you had. They just love some B12 for some reason.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Probably because it has more winning teams than the SEC
Much like Okie State’s schedule had more than Bama’s.
Besides, something tells me you wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss those computers if they favored your team lol.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 9:07 PM CST up reply actions
Not totally dismissing
just need other evidence too.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
You do.
Others may not.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
Huh?
The folks who created the system obviously do since they only give them a 1/3 weighting.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Troll hard
OSU has played three games decided by a TD or less. To argue they are not blowing teams out consistently is pretty much a gigantic lie. You tried to disregard their KSU win because they dared only win by 7. Then, to support your argument that OSU is just limping through their schedule, you bring up literally OSU’s only other close win. Try being even remotely honest for a second. OSU has a very good resume. To pretend otherwise just discredits you and your arguments — it shows you are unable to look at the issues reasonably and are just trollin for Bama.
Yes, ISU is good not great. They are bowl eligible. They have two wins over BCS conference teams OOC (Iowa and UConn). No one’s putting them up on a pedestal, but they also aren’t, well, what ISU usually is.
You rely heavily on MOV. Bama’s MOV is 27.2. OSU’s is 22.5.
It’s not that I’m disparaging Bama. I think Bama has a good case, as I laid out above. But so does OSU, if they win out.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Texas was a close win as well.
And Connecticut is awful. Bottom line, I said Auburn earlier- ISU is probably more comparable to Vandy. In fact, both teams played Connecticut and won by almost identical scores. And OSU inflated their MOV by running up the score when they had the chance. Come on, winning 66-6 over TTU and 70-28 over Kansas? Ridiculous. Both Bama and LSU had plenty of opportunities to do that this year and didn’t. Hell, how many do you think you could have had on Ole Miss?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
By the way
the F+ metric I linked above that takes out garbage time but allows for opponent strength actually has Okie State’s offense ranked 11th. LSU and Bama are 3rd and 8th, respectively. Also surprisingly, OSU’s defense is ranked 5th- LSU is 1st and Bama 2nd in that category.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I think we were all aware that the computers love the Big 12.
That’s all this tells us.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Don't really get all the arguing
It’s not like anybody here can do anything about whether we do play again.
I can understand LSU wanting to play OSU: they have no defense. If the shoe were on the other foot, I would want to play a weaker team for the title too.
"Football has never been just a game to me. Never."
Paul William Bryant
Much as I would prefer a playoff
the one good thing about the current system is all the fun debate.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Yeah we're having loads of fun here
Don't Panic.
by 4.0 Point Stance on Nov 28, 2011 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
Everybody is except the butthurt "no rematch" group
that knows the rematch is imminent and hates it.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Yeah you were having a blast when you 'threatened' to leave in a huff.
Maybe you should worry more about coming up with a better argument.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Nov 28, 2011 8:42 PM CST up reply actions
sigh...
I wasn’t huffy. See y’all in NOLA.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Now I want Bama to miss the BCSNCG...
… just so I can go over to RBR and ask if you need some Boudreaux’s Butt Paste.
We’re not butthurt. We’re not “no rematch”. We’re saying that Okie St has a pretty good case if they beat OU and will have an objectively better resume than Bama. They will have earned it on the field, more than anyone else.
If OSU loses, then Bama should clearly go to the title game. Hell, if OSU wins, I don’t have a huge problem with Bama going other than it exposes the BCS system as an absolute farce — but that has nothing to do with Bama.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Sweet!
There’s just about no chance now though with Bama passing them in the computers. OSU needed 25% of the vote to flip with unanimous computers. Since the computers can’t consider MOV, they probably won’t end up any better than they were this week in that department no matter what they do, meaning they would need about 40% to flip.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I meant last week.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I always thought
you had to lose to have butthurt
Head coach Les Miles of the LSU Tigers leads his team in their usual pregame warmup song "Head, Sheauxlders, Knees, and Teauxs." -Spencer Hall
I want to see bama make it to the BCSCG.
Beating them twice in one season is something they will never be able to live down.
"LSU's ability to eat the other team's soul is unparalled in my memory." -Aaron Chastain via Twitter
"Madam, you have between your legs an instrument capable of giving pleasure to thousands and all you can do is scratch it."
--Sir Thomas Beecham to a lady cellist.
“I’m just saying right now,” Gundy said. “You asked me about today and we have a loss and they have a loss, and they lost to the No. 1 team in the country.”
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
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Team Name = Eliminated from SEC Tournament
| West | Conf | Overall | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
1 LSU Tigers  |
19 | 11 | 42 | 14 |
|
16 | 14 | 39 | 17 |
| 7 Mississippi St. Bulldogs |
16 | 14 | 34 | 21 |
|
14 | 16 | 34 | 22 |
| 10 Auburn Tigers |
13 | 17 | 30 | 26 |
| |
9 | 21 | 21 | 34 |
| East | Conf | Overall | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
| 2 South Carolina Gamecocks |
18 | 11 | 39 | 15 |
| 4 Kentucky Wildcats |
18 | 12 | 41 | 15 |
| 3 Florida Gators |
18 | 12 | 40 | 16 |
| 5 Vanderbilt Commodores |
16 | 14 | 29 | 25 |
|
14 | 15 | 31 | 24 |
|
8 | 22 | 24 | 31 |
