The BCS Must Die
I hate the BCS. Hate, hate, hate it. It's an awful system that lends itself to corruption and worse yet, it has made the regular season less and less meaningful. Their slogan is "Every Game Counts", but this season shows that every game simply doesn't count.
Conference titles used to matter. Teams used to schedule tough cross-regional games with frequency. Now, thanks to the BCS, they don't. The BCS claims to make the regular season more meaningful, but under the BCS, college football's regular season has become less meaningful. The quality of out of conference schedules have steadily declined under the BCS as teams have learned it is more important to not lose than to go out and prove your worth. The BCS has consistently rewarded teams, as it has this year, for avoiding tough games.*
*Ed Note - Before we go any further, this is not about Alabama making the title game. This is entirely about the method of selection and the BCS itself. I reject the entire system, not because of who it spit out as LSU's opponent. I do think Oklahoma St deserved it over Alabama, but I'm a resume voter. A power poll voter would likely take Alabama. I don't find the result of Alabama in the title game all that objectionable, as there are valid arguments on both sides. I find their method of selection terrible for football - this is about the BCS itself.
The BCS, and its supporters, claim the purpose of the BCS is to match up the two best teams. That's not true. To quote the BCS's website:
The Bowl Championship Series (BCS) is a five-game showcase of college football. It is designed to ensure that the two top-rated teams in the country meet in the national championship game, and to create exciting and competitive matchups among eight other highly regarded teams in four other bowl games.
How does the BCS ensure it gets the two "top rated" teams? It has invented a formula that is the illusion of objectivity when really it is a fancy way of distracting the rubes that it is simply selecting the top two teams in the human polls.
Only once has the BCS picked a team for the title game that was not in the human polls' top two, and it was so controversial that the AP crowned the team that missed the title game its champion. Oh, and then the BCS revamped the formula so that would never happen again.
The other goal of the BCS is to create "exciting and competitive matchups" in the other BCS bowls, and it has largely failed at that goal. It also has selected teams for those bowls who have not performed as well in this season as the teams getting passed over. The regular season certainly didn't matter in the selections this year.
This is what the BCS says their goal is, but that's not the true goal. The real goal of the BCS is in its name: Bowl Championship Series. The purpose of the system is to preserve the bowls. If you sat down and created a postseason from scratch, there's simply no way you'd come up with the bowls, much less the BCS. The BCS exists to matchup #1 and #2 within the framework of the bowls. The bowls come first, and don't ever forget that.
After the break, let's review how each BCS bowl game demonstrates a major flaw in the system.
BCS CHAMPIONSHIP GAME
LSU v. Alabama
This matchup exposes two major flaws, only one of them having to do with the BCS. Let's deal with that first. There's a legitimate argument over who should be in the title game. Oklahoma St won a conference title and has more quality wins. Alabama passes the eyeball test and only has one loss - to the best team in the country in OT. There is a an honest and legitimate debate over which team deserves that one slot in the title game -- and the method we used to decide is awful.
The BCS essentially leaves it up to the human voters in the Coaches Poll and the Harris Poll. Does anyone honestly believe that more than half of those voters had even seen Oklahoma St. play a full game until last weekend? Hell, if the coaches are doing their job, they probably haven't seen Alabama play either. We use two voting bodies who have absolutely no idea which team is more deserving.
These voters are not sitting down and evaluating these teams with any level of detail. OK, maybe a few are, but it is surely a small minority. Voters still vote primarily by reputation -- there's not a doubt in my mind that if Oklahoma has Oklahoma St's resume, OU would be in the title game. Alabama won the vote not because they won the debate on its merits, they won the debate because they are an established brand and OSU isn't. It's absurd.
The second big problem exposed here is the problem of ESPN's massive influence over the sport. ESPN is a network that thrives on conflict. It has flooded the airwaves with talking head shows of varying levels of quality. ESPN is so desperate for conflict it once made it a news story that LeBron James wore a Yankees cap.
But on ESPN's Saturday morning showcase, not one of the analysts on that show made a case for OSU in the title game. I generally like College GameDay, but I could not believe that the network was actively campaigning for Alabama over OSU, even giving Nick Saban a platform to plead his case. I don't blame Saban for campaigning, OF COURSE he should campaign for his team. Alabama's guilty of no wrongdoing here, but ESPN couldn't find one person on air to at least lay out OSU's case?
As infuriating as the morning's coverage was, ABC/ESPN's coverage of the night games was far worse. Alabama's nightmare scenario played out before our eyes, and twitter and the blogosphere exploded with debate between Bama and OSU. ESPN responded by pretending the debate wasn't happening. Throughout OSU's blowout win, the announcers consistently told the viewing audience that this win couldn't dislodge Alabama, even running that LSU-Bama was the title game matchup on the Bottom Line scrawl. ESPN didn't just set the narrative that Alabama deserved the bid, they refused to even admit there was any controversy over this selection. It was blatant campaigning for, let's face it, a team that didn't really need the help. Alabama doesn't have a problem getting recognized.
ROSE BOWL
Oregon v. Wisconsin
The Rose Bowl, above all other bowls, values its tradition. The Rose Bowl worships at the altar of the Big Ten and Pac-12 matchup, and the conferences worship the Rose Bowl in return. If there is one roadblock to a playoff above all else, it is the Rose Bowl and its tie ins.
Hey, at least somebody respects tradition. College football is all about tradition and the Rose Bowl stands staunchly for tradition. I'm not against that. In fact, I'm completely for it. If we're going to preserve the bowls, let's actually preserve the bowls. Winning the Big Ten or the Pac-12 and earning a Rose Bowl trip actually means something. It values the regular season and winning the title of your conference. The reason the Rose Bowl does so is that it is the bowl that the BCS has the least control over. Let that be a lesson - the less influence the BCS has, the better the bowl.
FIESTA BOWL
Oklahoma St. v. Stanford
I'm sure this is disappointing for Cowboy fans, but it's still a pretty good matchup. OSU gets a reward for winning the Big 12 and they get a matchup with highly rated Stanford. Stanford is #4 in the BCS, ranked ahead of Oregon, despite losing head to head to the Ducks and also failing to win the Pac-12 title. Why are they ahead in the polls? Because they have one loss and Oregon has two.
This demonstrates precisely why touch cross-regional games are on life support. The difference between UO and Stanford, other than the Ducks winning on the field and taking the conference crown, is that the Ducks lost to LSU and Stanford didn't play them. Stanford is being rewarded in the polls for NOT playing LSU while the Ducks are being punished. Had UO scheduled Louisiana Tech instead of Louisiana St, the Ducks would have only one loss right now and would unquestionably be ranked ahead of Stanford. Hell, they might even be in the national title game. Oregon is absolutely being punished in the polls for going out and playing someone. We like to say the BCS has made the regular season more meaningful, but the incentive is to win, regardless of opponent. There is little incentive to go out and play top tier teams. The regular season might be more "meaningful" in the sense that your record matters more, but the quality of the regular season has been harmed.
ORANGE BOWL
Clemson v. West Virginia
Can we stop treating the Big East as a BCS conference? The BCS guarantees bids to the conference champions of the power conferences, which I generally support. I like valuing conference titles, but we need to stop promoting the Big East to the same level as the other power conferences. Hell, the ACC has not exactly set the world on fire in the BCS era, but at least their conference isn't falling apart at the seams.
The biggest loser of the BCS era has arguably been the Orange Bowl, which has a litany of terrible games, thanks to its ACC tie-in. Hey, at least this game isn't Louisville v. Wake Forest again. But it's not just the matchups, it's the schedule. January 1 used to be my favorite holiday. You'd sit in front of the TV all day with your family and watch a cornucopia of college football. I'm okay with moving the title game to different day, but each BCS game? By stretching out the schedule like that, the juice has gone out of the non-title BCS games. Worse yet, it has ruined January 1st to such a point that hockey has moved in on college football's turf, and they schedule their showcase event on New Year's Day. That's right, the BCS is so stupid that it allowed college football to be outsmarted by the NHL. Let that sink in.
SUGAR BOWL
Michigan v. Virginia Tech
This game is an abomination. From 1950 until the creation of the Bowl Alliance(the predecessor to the BCS - and yes, it was even worse), the Sugar Bowl invited a SEC school every year except 1973 (OU v. Penn St). From 1995-2000, the SEC only sent a representative to the Sugar Bowl twice in six years. Thanks for maintaining tradition. The BCS has largely righted itself since then, and this will be the first Sugar Bowl without an SEC team since 2000. And the matchup sucks.
BCS rules prevent more than two schools from a conference going to the BCS bowls, which tied the Sugar Bowl's hands. The Sugar Bowl passed over teams ranked 6 through 9 to take a #11 vs. #13 matchup. By rule, the Sugar Bowl couldn't take Arkansas or South Carolina (or Georgia). So the Sugar Bowl reached out and picked Michigan, who didn't even make the Big Ten title game. Michigan St finished ahead of Michigan in the Big Ten and beat them head to head, and wasn't even allowed to be considered for the bowl by rule. Think about that, Michigan St was punished for having a BETTER SEASON than Michigan. Michigan demonstrated, on the field, that they were the inferior team to Michigan St, and because they missed the title game of their conference, the BCS rewarded them. The regular season, once again, didn't matter. More people would be making a stink about this if it, but this was, by far, the less objectionable selection.
Secondly, Kansas St. has already sold out their Cotton Bowl ticket allotment. That's right, KSU got hosed on the bowl selection, and their fans still sold out the inferior bowl in less than four hours. So the Sugar Bowl decided that no one would watch KSU on TV and took a Virginia Tech team that did not beat a single team ranked in the top 25. In fact, the only team in the top 25 VT even played was Clemson. VT lost to Clemson twice by a combined 48 points.
You don't want KSU? Fine. Why not Baylor? Baylor actually beat teams with a pulse and only features the Heisman front-runner in Robert Griffin III. Think the Sugar Bowl could sell a Denard Robinson - RGIII matchup? Can't imagine anyone who would want to watch that game.
Instead, the BCS rewarded a team for playing a joke of an out of conference schedule, avoiding any meaningful games against good teams. When VT finally played a top 25 team, they didn't just lose, they lost by blowout.
The regular season matters? This season clearly demonstrates that it does not.
A MODEST PROPOSAL
Look, I understand we're not getting a playoff because of the Rose Bowl and the tradition of the bowls. You know what? That's not a bad thing. The Rose Bowl might be the last bastion of tradition in college football, and even they have partly sold their souls. So let's preserve the old bowls and chuck the ridiculous BCS formula, which means nothing anyway. Actually, keep the BCS rankings as a guide, but stop giving it this exalted meaning. No one bitches about the polls in college basketball because, well, they don't matter.
Go back to the traditional bowl tie-ins and just add a plus one. Have the participants selected by a committee, like they are in every other college sport, picked among the big bowl winners. Get rid of the Big East tie in, but keep some sort of rule that the BCS bowls have to take a non-AQ conference champion that finishes a certain level in the polls (the Boise St. rule). If that system were in place this year, we'd have these matchups:
ROSE: Oregon (Pac-12 champ) v. Wisconsin (Big Ten champ)
SUGAR: LSU (SEC champ) v. Stanford (at-large)
FIESTA: Oklahoma St. (Big 12 champ) v. Alabama (at-large)
ORANGE: Clemson (ACC champ) v. Georgia (at large)*
*Yes, Georgia. The Orange Bowl, which doesn't have a stake in the title this year, would kill themselves to get a matchup of these two traditional rivals who now rarely play each other in this BCS era. Georgia also gets rewarded for actually winning something, instead of rewarding USCe and Arkansas for not winning.
All of the BCS bowls would be played on New Years Day (January 2nd, this year). The next day, the NCAA committee would meet and set a title game, which rotates just as it does now, between the top two winners. We may have ended up with precisely the same matchup, LSU v. Alabama, but at least it would have largely been determined on the field while also preserving the tradition of the bowls.
The current system just flat out sucks. The regular season doesn't matter. despite what the press releases say. Let's make it matter again.
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Love your proposal
but not sure the other conferences would go along with it. I think most of them believe they have a better chance of winning the narrative than a semifinal football game against an SEC team. The SEC hogging the whole thing this year may be just the thing to get them talking. Let’s hope.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Methinks...
… there’s a lot more support for a plus one today than there was two days ago. The Big 12, especially, got royally screwed by the bowls — Okie St gets passed over for the title game, KSU/Baylor gets passed over for a BCS slot by Virginia f’n Tech, Baylor slides behind OU in the bowl pecking order, and Mizzou loses its Big 12 tie in bowl.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Would tie-ins have helped that though?
The one problem with your scenario is that Bowl directors would never stand for teams that won’t travel being shoved down their throats. The BCS, depending on your perspective, may have screwed OSU (no need to debate that any more.) I don’t see how the BCS screwed Kansas State though; the Bowls just flat out didn’t want them and took lower rated teams ahead of them.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
the problem with this argument is that there is good evidence that VA tech travels poorly
and K-state fans are desperate to see a good bowl game.
Oh, I'm not saying they were correct.
Just saying that the BCS rankings actually worked for K-State. I think it’s pretty clear that K-State deserved to go, and much less clear that they wouldn’t have been profitable. Just saying that the BCS formula itself worked for them- the Bowl committee didn’t.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Wow, department of redundancy department.
Edit fail.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Agree with you
As long as the bowls are semi-autonomous operations, nothing can really be done about who they select. With the exception of removing the stupid rule that a non-AQ team like Boise, no matter how highly ranked, cannot make a BCS game without winning their conference.
a plus one is likely the most reform we will ever see
I don’t think there would be too much (as much?) debate about who the top 4 teams were (unless your team was #5). Let them fight it out on the field.
My reasoning against a play off is purely anecdotal, but I think it would hold true for a lot people. A play-off is just too unwieldy from the attending fan’s perspective. I didn’t make it to ATL this year because I’m spending my dolla dolla bills and brownie points on NOLA. If this were a play off, I guess I would have gone to ATL (since that could be the end of the line) and then likely had to miss out on NOLA. And of course, there’s the issue of trying to attend the game after that if LSU were to win.
And that is just in the SEC region. Imagine if Stanford were to come to Baton Rouge, Okie State to Tuscaloosa, Wiscy to Eugene, and the Hokies to Ann Arbor (these numbers and match ups are e.g.) and then all the winning fan bases are put in the position of buying tickets, booking flights, hotel rooms, etc for the next couple of weekends to different parts of the country. Do you stay at home and hit up stubhub as the clock rolls to zeroes? Maybe I should reevaluate my commitment to sparkle motion, but that’s an enormous burden on the fan base to try to attend three games in three far-flung cities in three weekends. It would make for great TV though.
My other problem with a play off is the perennial problem with a play off. How do you reward LSU (or the barn in 2010 or Bama 2009, etc) for it’s regular season? What if they won every game by 50 points? Do you spot them some points in their first play off game? Home field advantage?
by haveagreatday on Dec 5, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
That is the unfortunate side.
If we ever get the plus one, fans of the team will probably have to attend the Bowl game and watch the CG on the tube. The big game would likely become a “Super Bowl” event with a stadium full of corporate folk and very few tickets released to the schools.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
It isn't now?
It’s not like corporate seats haven’t taken over the title game already. It’s not Super Bowl bad, but it’s not a great college environment now.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Very true.
In that case I guess you could argue that a plus one gives the fans a better chance to see their team.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Only thing I’m struggling with is why is WVU left out of a bowl in your proposal. They won the conference and scheduled tough as you want teams to do, yet aren’t high in the polls because of it. Seems like you were quick to defend Oregon for the same stuff, yet WVU was tossed aside.
Because the Big East is awful
Which is one of the reasons all of the football schools are bolting the conference. The quality of play is weak. I believe Boise has a stronger case than WVU, as Boise at least won their tough OOC game.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
I know its definitely down, but isn’t that also perception, which you wanted to eliminate when talking about how Alabama’s brand helped them get into the title game?
It's not perception
In the 8 years since VT, Miami, and BC left the Big East — the Big East has only has a team finish in the top ten once. Once. That’s worse than the Mountain West. Only twice did they have a top ten team headed to bowl season, as well.
In the odd year in which the Big East champ, if it even survives as a viable entity, is in the top ten then sure, let ‘em in the BCS bowls. But WVU is 9-3 with losses to LSU, Syracuse, and Louisville. Cincy lost to WVU, Rutgers, and Tennessee (by 22). Louisville is 7-5 and has some wretched losses (FIU and Marshall). the Big East’s weakness is not perception. It is very, very real.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Not sure where you got your stats
2005 WVU 11-1 #6/#5 in the polls
2006 Louisville 12-1 #6/#5 in polls
2007 WVU 11-2 #6/#6
2009 Cincinnati 12-1 #9/#8
Only 2005 WVU didn’t go to a bowl in the top 10, they were 11
collegefootball-reference
2005 WVU was #11
2006 L’ville ws #5
2007 WVU was #11
2009 Cincy was #4, but dropped to #11
The last two years has been two teams outside the top 20. 2004 was a #19 Pitt squad and 2008 was a #12 Cincy squad, to round things out.
The Big East has been an absolute non-factor in the title race. Now, it’s losing three more schools. The Big East is not going to exists as a top tier football conference, and it really hasn’t anyway. It’s been dying a slow death for a decade. This is the death rattle.
Still an awesome basketball conference, though.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
I was using wikipedia
But still according to your source’s coaches poll:
2005: WVU ended 6th
2006: Louisville ended 7th, WVU ended 10th
2007: WVU ended 6th
2009: Cincinnati ended 9th
My point
Perception can’t be a factor in determining where teams go. Even if the conference was bad in the past, it shouldn’t be used to bring down a team or prop one up.
The SEC usually gets the benefit of the doubt, but it shouldn’t get it for past teams winning. Auburn winning in 2010 has nothing to do with LSU 2011. LSU 2011 should be in this year’s game based off what we did this season, which everyone agrees is enough to be in the championship game.
Coaches know their teams and NOTHING else
Per Andy Staples, more than half of the coaches’ ballots placed Virginia Tech ahead of Clemson. And we’re letting this count for 1/3 of the vote to determine a champion? Ugh.
If you think about it
when does a coach have time to watch all these other teams? They’re too busy planning for the next opponent, practicing, and recruiting to DVR the games and watch them later. And they sure as hell aren’t watching them live on Saturday. I have it on good authority that coaches have assistants fill out their ballots for them. In some cases the coaches might tell them who they want at the top, and they might even look at it once it’s done, but they’re not spending any time on it, and it’s not an informed coach’s opinion. It is a truly terrible poll. Unfortunately, it is the poll from which the BCS draws its credibility.
And of course the BCS has no credibility. The BCS has diminished its own self. It has taken away it’s own credibility. Why? Because every time the BCS has spit out a 1 and 2 that people didn’t like, they changed the formula to where it would spit out an answer closer to the AP poll. In so doing, it has basically admitted that the AP poll is legit, and it is only trying to chase the AP poll. For the BCS to have any credibility, there should just be a formula, and stick with it. If it conflicts with the AP or any other poll, so be it. But morphing itself every so often when people don’t agree with it just admits that it has no backbone, no conviction, and therefore little credibility.
i don't expect coaches to watch all of the games
I do expect them or their assistants to know that Clemson crushed VA Tech twice.
Well, you've now hit on the other problem
which is that what coaches DO know and ARE aware of…..they are still likely to manipulate to their benefit. Have you seen the latest Coaches poll? For example, Nick Saban voted OSU 4th. Hmm…..no agenda there, right?
That is a major flaw in the BCS. A full THIRD of it is handed over to interested parties. Like the coaches won’t vote in ways that benefit them, or their coaching buddies they like, or things like that.
I’ll note Coach Miles voted Alabama #2 and OSU #3. I suppose that’s the way he really sees it. But for those who truly believe OSU should’ve gotten their shot, admittedly Miles was part of the “problem.” But…..nobody can accuse him of not wanting to play Bama again. His vote did nothing but help the rematch.
Why would you assume that Saban moving OSU up
from #5 to #4, along with several other coaches, was a manipulation? The Air Force coach put them at #5 behind Arkansas, which isn’t unreasonable if you think about it.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Several good points
1. Having a coach’s poll involved at all is subject to self-interest and hints at bias (which, I suppose, is the same thing). I guess the theory is that coaches would have better knowledge about which teams are truly good (not just “observational”) but they’re mainly going to have insider knowledge about teams they’ve actually faced. As it stands, if coaches are spending their time preparing their teams, they have less time to crunch any numbers or do heavy-lifting analysis. AP voters may have bias, too, but they’re in the position to analyze
2. “For the BCS to have any credibility, there should just be a formula, and stick with it. If it conflicts with the AP or any other poll, so be it. But morphing itself every so often when people don’t agree with it just admits that it has no backbone, no conviction, and therefore little credibility.” Absolutely true. I’ve said it for years (and elsewhere in these comments) — BCS is like a “Calvin & Hobbes” game. Make up the rules as you go. Almost every glitch this system has encountered could have been solved before it happened, if there were any foresight.
by Volty on Dec 6, 2011 2:25 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec for Calvinball reference
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
The Air Force Coach had OSU at #5
behind Stanford and Arkansas!! And Saban had OSU at #4 behind Stanford…typical.
Les Miles is a man…he put Bama at #2 cuz we ain’t scared!
by WhoDatSaintsLSU on Dec 5, 2011 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
That sux.
I’ve always hated the BCS. One more reason.
"The same things win today that have always won, and they will win years from now. The only difference is the losers have a whole new bunch of excuses why they don’t win or can’t win."-Bear Bryant
Robot Chicken Star Wars should be canon.
by the thin red line on Dec 8, 2011 1:58 AM CST up reply actions
ah fuck it
My idea is that every specific body strives to become master over all space and to extend its force (--its will to power:) and to thrust back all that resists its extension.
by Yail Bloor on Dec 5, 2011 11:20 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Fuck it! Yes! That's your answer. That's your answer for everything!
rec’d
LSU is an 800 lb gorilla. With a chainsaw as a penis.
the good side about this controversy
is now the Big XII and Pac-12 will be willing to come to the table and at the very least discuss a Plus-one model as proposed by Slive in 2008
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
emphasis mine
QUESTION: Let’s talk about the BCS. I know you all presented the plus-one plan last year. (Taking the top four teams in the BCS, No. 1 would play No. 4, No. 2 would play No. 3 in the semis, with the winners meeting for the national title.) Is that something that you as a conference want to address again?
ANSWER. We thought it was worth moving ahead on and having more serious discussion about it. And it didn’t happen. We’re all set for the next four-year cycle, (and) we have one more year in the current cycle. Whether or not after that there’ll be any discussion, we will see.
The idea may have come from here, but it’s in the public domain now, the idea. So now every year you can take a look at what happened, apply the plus-one model to the actual results in a given year, and over time see how it might have been helpful or not.
Q: Who is against the plus-one format?
A: It was pretty clear that the Big 12 presidents don’t want to have the extra game. The Pac-10 and Big 10 were not interested in it from the start. The ACC was wanting to look at it, as we were. The Big East didn’t like the model.
And having said that, I think it’s only fair to say that I’m not a playoff advocate. I don’t think a playoff is appropriate, and I make a distinction between a plus-one and a playoff. A lot of people don’t, but I do.
Q: Will there ever be a playoff?
A: There isn’t a postseason scenario in the sport of college football that can meet all the needs of everybody. We have exams in December. That’s why we don’t play bowl games until the 28th or 29th.
We don’t want football to become a second-semester sport. It’s a long, hard sport. If they did, all of a sudden they’re going to be behind. So if you respect that, it makes a playoff very difficult.
The regular season, even the most cynical people about the BCS have to recognize that the regular season has become much more significant. It’s always significant here in the Southeast.
And the bowl system is important to us in the SEC. If you change it dramatically, I don’t think you’re going to have bowls that want to be the NIT of college football.
is that four year contract coming up in 2012? I know he proposed in 2008 so if 2012 is the year when this gets brought back to the table it COULD NOT have come at a better time
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
by Wallacewade04 on Dec 5, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
That's Mike Slive answering BTW
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
by Wallacewade04 on Dec 5, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
I recall that Bill Connely wrote this morning that the new deal comes up in 2013
but made the same point that you are making, that the timing is right to push through a plus one.
by haveagreatday on Dec 5, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
Totally agree about the OSU lack of "brand".
The absolute dismissal of OSU’s win by Mustyberger and Herbstreit was down-right shameful. They beat the number 10 team by 34 points and it wasn’t that close.
Reverse AL and OSU in last week’s scenario. If AL had beaten a #10 Auburn like that to win a conference, you don’t think AL would be burning right now? The fact that we’re now down to Herbstreit’s “eyeball” test instead of taking into account conf. championships is an abomination since he proves every Sat. with his terrible picks that his eyes ain’t that great.
a big part of the problem here is the influence of ESPN
I read something this morning (forget where) about the movement between a bunch of lower tier bowls at the last minute…ESPN actually owns those bowls and essentially said, according to the report, “We don’t care how we traditionally pick, we want to pick the best TV matchups.”
I heard they also made Erin's pants come off.
Wait, what?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I also agree
with the notion that if Oklahoma State was names Oklahoma…they would get in without a doubt
by WhoDatSaintsLSU on Dec 5, 2011 6:51 PM CST up reply actions
Poseur I like this idea a lot. I personally love the bowls, and I hate the idea of a full blown
playoff. I think that devalues the regular season in every other sport. I think a plus one in most years would fix all of the issues over who should or should not be left out (this year is the obvious exception, since the question should be moot with LSU’s dominance). And I really like the idea of removing some of the weaker conferences stranglehold on the BCS bowls.
Question though – you obviously value conference championships very highly, which I agree with generally. But given that – why the hate of WVU? They won their conference? The big east is terrible – but what’s the cutoff point for which conferences matter?
See above with actioncuse
It’s been 8 years — the Big East has shown itself to be a level below the other conferences. Actually, so has the ACC, but they survive due to raiding the Big East and their bowl tie in. Also, with only 8 slots in the four BCS bowls, I’d rather have the extra at-large than be tied to the Big East champ.
The Big East (or the MWC) champ should absolutely be considered for an at-large bid and should get preferential treatment. But they don’t have much of a case this year.
But I’d like to see the regular season matter again – which it clearly doesn’t in the current system. I also understand that we’re not getting rid of the bowls – so any proposal has to accomodate that fact. Deal with the facts on the ground and come up with a solution. any proposal without the traditional Rose Bowl matchup in most years is a non-starter. Let’s just accept that and work around that fact.
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And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
I don't think your proposal solves any problems Poseur...
This no more “settles anything on the field” than the current system.
As long as there is an element to the system like this:
The next day, the NCAA committee would meet and set a title gameNobody will be satisfied.
As a long time proponent of the BCS, (which I think largely has gotten it right in the title game every single year save for this year) I think I’m slowly coming around to the idea of a playoff.
My plan
The basic plan is a 4 team seeded playoff.
The participants are chosen thusly:
1) The current BCS formula is scrapped, with only human polls remaining to preserve tradition. (They will actually have a use as well though)
2) New computer rankings will be determined for the sole purpose of ranking entire conferences.
3) The conference champions of the 3 highest rated conferences will get automatic bids in the playoff.
4) The 4 spot is held for a wildcard. The wildcard automatically goes to a non big 6 conference or an independant school if that school’s average poll rating is higher than a school who has an autobid for the playoff. If there is no such school, the wildcard goes to any school who has the highest poll average and is not already in the tournament.
5) The first round of the tournament is played the week following the conference championship games, with the higher ranked team getting the game in their home stadium.
6) The two winners of the first round meet in the NC game, which rotates through the 4 big bowls as they do now.
7) The rest of the bowl selections are made as they are now, no new polls are created after the first round tournament game. Bowls are encouraged to select teams as if the first round playoff games never happened.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
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What if there's an upset in a CCG?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
This year,
Had UGA beaten LSU, UGA would get an automatic birth into the tourney.
LSU would have to hope that they get the wildcard slot over teams like Bama, Stanford, Arkansas, and Boise.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
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Doesn't that kind of go against what you are trying to do though?
You just made one game more important than all the others in determining your participants.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
My answer to that would be, so what...
my rationale is:
1) The public is really hung up about winning your conference. They have a hard time grasping playing for the title game without winning your conference.
2) Playoffs inherently make winning “one game” more important than your body of work anyway. Every sport in America is built this way.
3) The regular season is still extremely important. You have to win your conference (or hope for the ONE wildcard).
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
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I think your first point
would be largely mitigated if a team that didn’t win its conference knocked off a team that did in the semifinal round. Right now it’s a beauty contest.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I don't get your point.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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Right now a team that doesn't win it's conference
can get a bye straight to the title game based on votes. With a plus one they would at least have to play a top rated team (and almost always a conference champ) to earn their place.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
True
I think this proposal covers that.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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It does
I just think it has too many avenues to exclude teams that are legitimately among the best four.
- Best team could be in a weaker conference
- Best team could be upset in its CCG
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I think those are possibilities
But on your first point…When has the “best team” not been from one of the best 3 conferences that year? And if they aren’t, they can still grab the wildcard slot.
On your second point…Who cares? The “best team” might be upset in the playoffs in the first round, or the second round. Upsets happen. I guess your solution to this is to scrap the BCSNCG in New Orleans and go ahead and award LSU the trophy today since we might be upset by an inferior team right?
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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I don't know the answer
to the former, but it is absolutely possible. Look at how FSU is recruiting, for example. They could easily be the best team in the country soon while playing in the #4 conference. On the latter, you are talking about who gets to go to the tourney- not what happens once you’re there. Assuming the conference is in the top three, that inferior team with three losses just made the final four over everybody else by winning one game. Is that really what you want?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Well...
Oklahoma St. isn’t in the title game because they were upset by Iowa St…So there whole season went out the window in a fluke loss on a short week, on the road, in double OT in a game in which they uncharacteristically committed 5 turnovers…
Now true, Iowa St. shouldn’t get into the game, just for beating Okie State, but in my system they wouldn’t have…A conference champion would have. And upsets happen, they are part of the game. We can’t create a system that discredits all upsets.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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Oklahoma State would be in
with a straight plus one that utilizes all of today’s formulas and/or under The Poseur Plan® without allowing for the possibility of a grossly undeserving team crashing the party.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I disagree.
The reason why I don’t like Poseur’s Plan is because it still relies on a committee to choose the title game participants. This is fundamentally the problem with what we have today. It solves zero problems. It’s just a new, shinier turd. And once that shiny new luster wears off it will just be another turd.
The reason why I don’t like a plus one, is because most of those proposals basically say “take the first 4 teams in the BCS, seed them and play a playoff”. That has always sounded nice, but this year is a glaring example of why that system is fundamentally flawed. Oregon is the PAC 12 champ, beat Stanford, and is ranked 4th in the BCS while Stanford is ranked 4th. Oregon is basically being punished for playing and losing to LSU. This will only cause big time OOC games to become even more rare as they hurt you more than they help.
Your argument against my system is that an undeserving team could “crash the party” by lucking into a win in their conference championship game. First that’s not true. They’d crash the playoff party, in that case, but unless they won another legitimate game in the playoffs they wouldn’t crash the title game. Second, that scenario happens today in the BCS system where 3 and 4 loss teams are routinely playing in BCS bowl games despite other more deserving teams being left out. And finally, that scenario happens in every other sport in which there is a playoff. Fresno St was a 3 seed in the 64 team NCAA baseball tourney and won it all. 8-8 teams make the playoffs in the NFL all the time while teams in other divisions go 10-6 and are watching from the couch. Playoffs will always favor teams who get hot late, and they will always allow teams that upset other teams to play on. You can’t prevent that from happening if you want to see a playoff.
My system keeps the playoff pool small on purpose to keep the regular season suspense in tact. However, it is susceptible to upsets in conference championship games. But that’s a part of the game. Upsets happen.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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Oregon is the PAC 12 champ, beat Stanford, and is ranked 4th in the BCS
Should read 5th in the BCS…
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
The reason why I don’t like a plus one, is because most of those proposals basically say "take the first 4 teams in the BCS, seed them and play a playoff".
Not true.
That’s what it would essentially do this year, but a committee would be free to take any bowl champion. It could take the Rose Bowl if it wished. And committees select the field in every other NCAA sport. So long as the criteria is clear, they largely do a good job.
I’m saying go back to the old bowls and then play a plus one. Because even if we don’t have a perfect champ, at least then we’d have the old bowls back.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
And at least voters would have one "glamour game" from each team
against a strong OOC opponent to vote on.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I am differentiating between “the poseur system” and “most other plus one systems”. So yeah I agree with you but you missed my point.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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by LSU Jonno on Dec 5, 2011 2:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I do like this system better than the more popular +1 model
I’d still be in favor of an 8-10 team playoff, but I know everyone thinks that’s too many games, and some people are very traditionalist about the bowls. I think you could keep the bowls intact. They’d be devalued, sure, but it’s not like they aren’t already in the current system. They’re basically exhibition games (outside the NCG), and that wouldn’t change.
Proud member of the Fax Girl fan club.
I also know people think if a playoff system occurs
It will just keep getting bigger and bigger. People cite the BB tournament, but does anyone really think football would end up like that? With 64 teams? Or even 32? NCAABB has more games in the regular season too, but I don’t see that happening to football. I don’t think an argument against a 20 team playoff should apply to a 10 team playoff. If you’re just against a 10 team playoff in the first place (which I know plenty of people are), that’s fine.
Proud member of the Fax Girl fan club.
Crashing the semis is crashing the party.
BCS bowls are pretty much meaningless today. I want the best four teams in the semis, period. If that means two each from two conferences, fine. I would agree with capping it at two teams per conference, but other than that it should be the best four.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Definitely disagree with the - conference
champ from the – computer-generated-ranking of the best three conferences. All sorts of problems there.
I am for a plus one – but based straight off of the rankings. The BCS rankings should be adjusted – but don’t just turn it over to the computers on conference rankings.
Then u need to figure out a way to pick the best 4
Given that schedules aren’t regulated, talent disparity is huge I imagine your system for choosing teams will look a lot like the BCS today. In fact you’d basically be picking LSU, Bama, OSU and Stanford this year which falls right into my argument against a plus one. It kills OOC games and makes winning your conference irrelevant.
What will happen under your system is once Bama or USC or some other historic team is left out, the playoff will grow from 4 to 8 teams. And that is how the NCAA BB tourney was formed and expanded which has rendered the regular season and conference championships moot. I don’t want that, but maybe I’m in the minority.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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by LSU Jonno on Dec 5, 2011 2:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I would definitely take the top four today
Would it be better with Oregon over Stanford? Sure. But Stanford at least has an argument – they have one fewer losses.
I think the voters messed up by voting Stanford over Oregon – but I’d rather live with that mess up than with a system that gave us LSU, Okie State, and Wisconsin as the three champs of the three best conferences this year. And Oregon has no one to blame but themselves – they lost to USC.
In my system LSU, okie st, Wisconsin and Boise state
Would play in a playoff. (I think Boise is higher than wisky)
I have no problem with that. I have a problem with any system that puts Stanford in over Oregon.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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by LSU Jonno on Dec 5, 2011 2:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
and we just disagree here
i’m not a fan of a rematch – but seriously, wisconsin and Boise over Bama? That’s ridiculous. Boise didn’t even win it’s lousy excuse for a conference.
And Poseur’s post below is right on – you have created a system tailor made for playoff creep. The first time a good team from the 4th best conference gets left out – uhoh.
If you're not a fan of rematches
you don’t want a plus one. There seems to be a “Game of the Century” at some point in most seasons.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
no, i'm not a fan of a rematch under the current system
but in a plus one, it would be much more understandable.
Ah, correct
Boise wouldnt’ be in then.
Bama would be in over boise since they didn’t win their conference.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
So you're in favor of blowout games
in national playoffs. Any plan that doesn’t have some legitimate criteria to select the best four teams regardless of conference affiliation makes little sense to me.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
What team wouldn't LSU or Bama blow out this year?
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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I mean most years.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Blowouts are going to happen
It’s college football. Heck look at USC-OU in 2004
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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Sure they are
but let’s not cultivate them, aight?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
When you create a playoff
Such that every game is competitive and meaningful…
go ahead and let every other sport know how that’s done.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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Not every...
just most. When you only allow the best four out of 120 you will have some competition.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I can't come up with a way to let the best 4 in without crapping on Oregon this year
That’s why I prefer my system. I think conference championships should matter. Yes there will be upsets sometimes. But we don’t stop the underdog in the superbowl from winning the superbowl.
We also don’t stop the AFC champion from getting into the superbowl because we know Dallas will beat them by 40.
It happens.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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You just gave two examples
of why college ball is better.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
again, i agree with tadpole
the point of a post season should not be to give underdogs the chance to get an upset – it should be to let the top teams from the regular season prove who is best that year. So a plus one with the current system is not a bad option…not perfect, but not terrible either – and arguably better than any realistic alternative.
We just disagree on the importance of conference championships then
That’s fine. I’m likely in the minority on that one.
I can name the past 20 SEC champions in football. I bet nobody on this site could do that in basketball. I love that about college football, and don’t want to lose it.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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Conference championships mean a ton on their own merit.
No reason they have to be a ticket to a BCS Championship though.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
THen they don't mean anything
Just like in NCAA basketball…
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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Why?
They are real. I am personally much more proud of the 22 than the however-many-you-say MNCs.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
They are real today.
They won’t be as soon as a playoff evolves into a 16 or 32 team extravaganza where Bama is resting Trent Richardson for the Iron Bowl because a playoff 1 seed is already locked up.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
As Poseur said
academics.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I think Stanford being over Oregon
Is simply because they both played a damn good USC team. Stanford won… Oregon lost. Take that game away and then you have their head up game… Oregon took that by a long shot, but unfortunately they have the loss to LSU weighing them down. Besides, if USC was allowed to play Oregon again… They would have whipped that ass again. No doubt. Matt Barkley has been on beast mode this year.
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes." – Winston Churchill
So the lesson is to not play big time OOC games.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
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outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
No, the lesson is not to lose them.
LSU was able to win all of their games this year after beating Oregon, but if they had stumbled along the way that Oregon win would likely have pushed them over the top. High risk with high reward is decidedly American.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
and if we had a plus one
and oregon hadn’t sucked it up against USC, it would be LSU, Bama, Oregon and Okie state.
But there is no reward
LSU didn’t need that win to get into the championship game. And had Oregon never played it, they’d be ranked higher right now.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
Hindsight bias rocks!
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
That is the case in most years though.
In 2007 when LSU whooped Va Tech, you can point to that game and say, had LSU not played and won that game, they wouldn’t have gone to the championship.
I’m not sure you can say that for anyone else. The risk doesn’t outweigh the reward in my opinion.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
Any time
you are deciding between teams with equal records from different conferences a quality OOC game matters.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
We just had 12 games
Most models showed the Big 12 was the best conference…Why add a 13th game?
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
I think you just moved the goal posts.
Here we were discussing the risk/reward of playing a big-time OOC game.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
lol
Too busy at work and too many threads to keep up with. No clue what debate is where anymore.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
Playoff creep
See, I think your system is far more vulnerable to it. You’ve created a specific “playoff” and now its on like Donkey Kong. The number of teams will slowly creep.
My proposal specifically avoids being called a “playoff”. It is different and distinct — “a plus one”. You hopefully avoid the playoff creep problem by explicitly saying it is not a playoff.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Any system is susceptible to playoff creep.
I don’t think that is a valid argument.
Your system involves some group of people in a smokey room making a decision, my system is transparent, and involves winning your conference. Something you can control.
You can’t control if your conference sucks, which is my system’s downfall, but if your conference sucks how can we really know how good of a team you are?
Your system doesn’t fix anything. It merely moves the crapstorm of hate from December to January.
You cleverly selected your bowl matchups so that Bama would play Okie St in your example.
ROSE: Oregon (Pac-12 champ) v. Wisconsin (Big Ten champ)
SUGAR: LSU (SEC champ) v. Stanford (at-large)
FIESTA: Oklahoma St. (Big 12 champ) v. Alabama (at-large)
ORANGE: Clemson (ACC champ) v. Georgia (at large)*
But what if Bama was playing in the Sugar opposite Clemson. Then LSU, Bama and Okie State all win? We are no better off with your system than we are today.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
There was nothing clever about it
LSU is the SEC champ and goes to the Sugar. OSU is the Big 12 champ and goes to the Fiesta. those are the tie ins. The Sugar isn’t going to take two SEC teams, allowing the Fiesta to take Alabama.
And why does it have to be secret committee with no accountability? and who meets in smoke filled rooms anymore? There are selection committees in every other NCAA sport and they work fine. They don’t always make the right selection, but they are generally transparent and defend their selections.
The basketball committee, for instance, values tough OOC scheduling, order of conference finish, and winning on the road. We know this, so teams schedule tough road games to help their profile. The basketball committee, generally, does a pretty good job.
But let’s go worst case scenario in which teams try to avoid one another and the bowls are complicit:
ROSE: Wisky v. Oregon
ORANGE: Clemson v. Alabama
SUGAR: LSU v. Boise St
FIESTA: Okie St v. Stanford
I think the committee would likely select the winner of the Fiesta Bowl over the winner of the Orange Bowl to punish Bama for trying to duck competition. But I don’t think that would happen as teams didn’t try to duck one another in the pre-BCS bowl era.
But I think simply allowing the bowls with an at-large slot to pick in the order of their conference champ tie-in’s poll rank would prevent that. The Sugar would pass on Bama, but take Stanford because of the matchup. Then the Fiesta, seeing that they would get a virtually play in game, would clearly take Bama. The Orange, stuck with leftovers, takes UGA to get an attractive matchup to sell tickets.
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by Poseur on Dec 5, 2011 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The basketball selection committee decides on sixty something teams for a tournament
And teams still complain.
They aren’t picking two teams.
The problem is still there…Who are they going to pick out of Bama, Okie State and LSU. You didn’t solve anything.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
Yes, they complain
And then we forget two days later. No one questions the validity of the field like they do the BCS. It does not happen.
And I told you how a committee would likely act — they would punish Bama for ducking competition and select OSU if they won. However, I also showed you an incredibly simple workaround to prevent teams ducking one another in the major bowls.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
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I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
The committee could have done that. And they didn't.
Bama played a weak OOC schedule and went to the title game this year.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
Penn State was a quality game.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
It was a decent win
But the bottom line is in Poseurs scenario we are left with Okie State, bama and LSU winning BCS games.
Then what? Some group of voters is left to decide…Which is exactly what we have today.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
But they all played against good teams
on National TV with a championship berth on the line. Everyone with a vote gets to see a de facto playoff game to consider.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
We just had that
It settled nothing. It was called the regular season.
Alabama and Okie State both played great teams.
What does adding an Alabama trashing of Clemson and an Okie state trashing of Stanford do to anything?
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
Auburn is not great
and it lets the voters have one last look at what these teams look like against OOC opposition.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
You think the Alabama-OSU debate would have been more clear cut with one more game?
The first 12, well those were nothing, but this last game, lucky 13 that would solve everything?
Sorry, not buying it.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
Depends on who they're playing
and who is watching.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
I think we are having the same discussion of Bama-Okie state after those games.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
But you don't know.
Maybe one of them gets exposed as a fraud.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Well if you play enough games
Eventually you might luck up and have one of the 3 teams lose an extra game. That’s not creating a better system, that’s letting statistics do your job.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
This is the third time I've answered
Bama would miss out for ducking competition. the committee could evaluate that and punish them for their behavior.
On top of that, I outlined now, TWICE, how easy it would be to avoid that situation.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Poseur I'm sorry, your plan solves nothing.
Love live the BCS.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
Well...
Other than valuing conference titles again, making bowls matter again, giving us a champ decided on the field, and removing the disincentive to play tough cross-regional games… then you’re right.
You’ve inventing an objection I’ve refuted three times, And then you’re pretending its a deal killer by continuing to re-assert the objection I’ve already answered.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Your answer doesn't solve anything
You are giving an opinion that a made up committee that might be accountable to the media might make an impossible decision easier by asserting that Bama dodge competition like somehow Bama had control over which bowl they went to which they wouldn’t.
Your iron clad mix of fact with opinion about something that isn’t real doesn’t fix your problem.
Your problem is you’ve created the BCS again. But they select the title game participants after one extra game. I don’t understand how that is any better than what we have today.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
it gets rid of the coaches' poll
that’s something. That poll is a joke.
My idea is that every specific body strives to become master over all space and to extend its force (--its will to power:) and to thrust back all that resists its extension.
Again
because it forces every team to play a quality OOC game on national TV with a berth on the line. No damaged goods like Oklahoma. One of the best teams from another conference.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
My system does that too.
it’s just that every so often, you’ll have one team that might not be quite as good if there was an upset.
Which is no different than any other sport.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
But we want CFB to be different.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
You're making it up
You are giving an opinion that a made up committee that might be accountable to the media might make an impossible decision easier by asserting that Bama dodge competition like somehow Bama had control over which bowl they went to which they wouldn’t.
Well, which is it?
If Bama has control over where they go, that’s the only way to create your scenario. If the bowls have control over the matchups, picking in order of the rank of their champion tie in, we can’t have the OSU, Bama, LSU three-team scenario because OSU and Bama would play one another. It’s unavoidable unless the committee TRIED to avoid the matchup.
The bowl matchups aren’t randomly spit out by a computer, or taken by blind draw from a poll.
Tell me, how could we have a scenario in which the Fiesta Bowl would turn down Bama as an at-large team to play OSU? You’ve invented a scenario that could only happen if Alabama turned down the Fiesta Bowl bid — and a human committee would absolutely punish that. We know this not from opinion, but by looking at how other NCAA selection committees behave.
Tell me how the scenario happens if there is even the scantest oversight.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
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I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
We don't have a committee
And it’s completely disingenuious to insinuate that a poll by members who don’t watch the games and never meet is in any way similar to a committee that would meet and be held to media scrutiny. The head of the basketball committee has to go before CBS every year — there is no equivalent with the polls. There’s no check.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Please explain to me how media scrutiny helps anything in the Bama vs Okie State case
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
Cannot happen
If you do not preserve the Rose Bowl as a Big Ten v. Pac-12 game in most years, you’ll never get those conference to sign off. It’s a total non-starter.
I also don’t think they are wrong. They are the only people preserving tradition. The Rose Bowl matters to those conferences, and they act accordingly. Good for them. Turning the Rose Bowl into a mere semifinal game without the Big Ten- Pac-12 game isn’t going to happen.
A playoff is not going to happen. I want one, but I’m willing to accept that the AD’s oppose it and the bowls have the power to prevent it. It’s completely unrealistic to think it’s going to happen, so let’s give up the dream and try a compromise that all parties can live with — and that’s the plus-one. It’s not my preferred option, but it’s probably the only option that could get passed by the conferences.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
What about my system doesn't preserve that matchup?
Bowls still pick who they want. They just lose their conf champion if they play for the title. Same as we have now.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
You're proposing a four-team playoff
Which means the Rose Bowl is unlikely to EVER keep its Big Ten v. Pac-12 champion matchup. It’s almost impossible to imagine a season in which neither the Big Ten or the Pac-12 champ isn’t in the top 4 and qualified for the playoff.
You’ve invented a system that would never have the traditional Rose Bowl matchup unless both champs had underwhelming seasons. In the BCS, the Rose Bowl matchup hasn’t occurred five times, and twice it was a title game. Usually, it keeps it’s tie ins.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
You read it wrong.
The teams that lose the playoff still go to bowls after the “first round” of the playoff.
The first round of the playoff essentially are meaningless games if you lose. You still go to your respective big bowl. The winners go to the national champtionship.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
Actually sorry,
Just reread. That part wasn’t clear.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
Then you run into the "finals" objection
I think it’s a crock, but AD’s have opposed a playoffs on that ground as well. You’re just not going to get it past the Big Ten or Pac-12.
You have to think about who will have to pass the proposal.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
We are talking one week for only 4 schools.
We have over a month until our bowl game.
If the AD’s don’t want those 2 games to happen in mid December…Fine. They can happen in late December after finals.
We have over a month between the conf championship game and BCSNCG. Almost a month between the major bowls and the BCS NCG. If we really are in a bind the season can start a week earlier.
Again we are talking 2 football games involving 4 schools.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
I'm not saying the objection is logical
I’m saying it exists. I don’t think your proposal would have a snowball’s chance in hell of passing — you’d run into the “Finals” objection and you’d still have a “Rose Bowl” objection as they’d be relegated to “loser’s bowl”. I don’t think it could pass.
I’m not saying your idea isn’t fair or a good way to do things, I’m saying it could not politically survive the process of getting ratified by the conferences. The Big Ten and Pac-12 absolutely would oppose it.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Maybe they would oppose it...
But the Rose Bowl is the losers bowl today.
And the finals objection is one I completely understand, but there are ways to mitigate that concern…start games a week early, push bowl games a week later, or play the playoff games after finals (which there is plenty of time to do). Logistically it can happen. We just need the curmudgeons to die off.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
No, today the Rose Bowl champs
can still crow about how they would have beaten that damn SEC team if only given the chance.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Well
We’ll never solve that issue. The issue of “let me at ’em…no wait…hold me back”…
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
wouldn't you need a lot more OOC play though
in other word, how would you compare what are basically closed systems? Love the idea though.
by haveagreatday on Dec 5, 2011 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
It encourages schools to play OOC games to improve your conferences computer score.
If you don’t want to play tough OOC games…Fine, roll the dice that nobody else will either.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
You're missing one very key element here
If this had happened this year, LSU players would be doing game week prep and taking finals at the same time.
I know that academics are barely considered anyway right now, but the week following the conference championship game is finals week for a large number of universities. I couldn’t imagine trying to work out, practice, watch game film and do all the stuff I already have to do this week as an LSU student. And my workload is actually pretty reasonable this finals week.
How does Appalachian State manage to do it?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
exactly
And as I said before, it doesn’t have to be the week after championship week. There are so many ways to solve the academic problem that it fails to hold water.
1) Start the games a week earlier
2) Play the first round of playoff games after finals but a week before major bowls
3) Move bowls back a week
That took all of 25 seconds to think about. Everyone can keep complaining about final exams or we can break a few eggs to make some omelets. Can we drop this one?
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
1) Start the games a week earlier
This should say “start the season a week earlier”
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
We'd love to
I’m not saying it’s an honest objection, but the objection exists and will not go away. It’s a deal breaker, and it’s time playoff advocates accepted it. We will not get through a system that doesn’t have a long layoff for finals.
I’m not inventing the objections that the AD’s and conferences have.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
It's time to accept those objections for what they are
Hollow attemps to dodge a playoff. They aren’t real issues. They are fabricated loopholes that these guys are taking. They only cry academics when it plays in their favor.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
YES
But it doesn’t matter.
There is no institutional support for a playoffs. None. It is simply not going to happen. Stop running your head into the wall. I want a playoff, too, but it’s time to move on and realize it’s never going to happen with the control of college football held by the conferences and the bowls.
It. Will. Not. Happen.
The conferences won’t support it, the AD’s won’t vote for it. And no one is politically dumb enough to propose it. It is a dead letter.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Long live the BCS!
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
First, they may not
plenty of lousy academic records in 1A and 1AA. Second, they may (I don’t know for sure) have stricter limits on practice times.
Glad I'm not the only person to see ESPiN for what it is
In addition to the Gameday stuff you mentioned, Saturday night’s Sportscenter right after the OU/OSU game had the anchors talking about and showing footage of Iowa State’s loss to Kansas St., while completely ignoring talking about or showing footage from OSU’s demolition of OU that had finished earlier. Agenda much? It just felt like pushing the “ISU is a bad team, don’t forget!” meme, and then to completely ignore the OSU game…..it all just seemed pretty blatant to me.
ESPiN has been on a downward slope for a while. They have pretty much lost all credibility as an actual news outlet. They are more slanted than political news channels and for whatever reasons, they have their own agenda and definitely push it.
btw…..is it just me, or does it seem like the media at large was just SO convinced that Alabama gave the game away and that they really should have won that they’ve been looking for any way to give them a do-over? I’ve never been a conspiracy theorist and I’ve never been one of the “The media hates LSU!” crowd. But this felt an awful lot like a bunch of people so shocked that Les Miles, of all people, could beat the mighty Tide with Saban at the helm. Like it can’t be right. We have to fix this. We have to show the world that was a mistake! If we make them play again, Bama will win, we’ll be vindicated, and all will be right with the world!
by MikeDeTiger on Dec 5, 2011 12:09 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed here as well...
ESPN is a complete sham. They are without a doubt driven by agenda and money from influential powers that be. They’re the worst college football coverage in this country and I wouldn’t take a nickel from the ground if it fell from their pocket.
The MTV analogy is pretty strong
now there are just a bunch of PTI-esque shouting matches that revolve around sports rather than sports themselves. The Lebron thing is a perfect example. Some of the in-game analysis can be good, but I’d prefer entire shows dedicated to educating viewers about Xs and Os rather than gossip.
by haveagreatday on Dec 5, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Anyone think that ESPN
really wants a playoff? I think if a playoff was proposed they would outbid everyone to get exclusive rights. I mean, ESPN actually had more to gain by getting a Big XII team in the NCG, because of their broadcasting deal with the Big XII. So I’m still trying to figure out why they were so obviously slanted towards Bama.
LSU/Stanford Alabama/OSU and then a championship game...Yes!!!
Let’s do it! That would be some great football! Who knows Saban and Miles might be willing to give up their cinch to the championship game just to settle things. Add a bowl game in KC. Split the Fiesta and let’s have at it. Afterall, it’s getting to see good football that’s the best part of it all. LSU would be worn out though. It’s been a long season for us. Geaux Tigers
Can someone answer this?
Why do the BCS polls have to be out by Sunday? What exactly is the purpose of this? Another thing, why isn’t their a certain selection committee who watches each game through the course of the week and determines a fair and balanced ranking? Why is it a mix of bullshit who don’t even watch half the games (some might not even watch a down of CFB on select Saturdays) and just say “Ok lost? You go down. Won? Ok you go up” or “Oh your Oklahoma, you can stay here. Oh Baylor you lost? Droping you 8 spots.”
It’s stupidity at it’s finest.
Yes
and you can see the results of that throughout the year. For example, Alabama loses a close game to LSU, and they dropped……all of one spot, to #3. Wisconsin lost on the road on a crazy, fluky, last second hail mary pass that got batted to a receiver against Michigan State…..and they tanked by no less than 8 spots in the polls.
Poseur refers to brand recognition. I call it helmet factor. Alabama has a shiny recognizable helmet. Wisconsin….not so much.
I also agree....
That the games shouldn’t be spread out of the course of what is seemingly a month. I understand they want to make each match up stand alone but christ almighty, you really just devalue the match up.
I understand that conferences and ADs love their auto bowl tie ins. They will never ever give it up. That’s why the Beef Bowl and Kraft bowl exist. If they want those around, hell keep em, I’m not going to complain about more college football. But lets balance the top where the match ups really matter.
Only a playoff will do
- The humans are flawed – their ‘perceptions’ and ‘eyeball tests’ are the reasons folks wanted something else to begin with. If these folks were so good at determining who is better than who, they would pick every game winner every weekend. Then on top of it, when the system doesn’t agree with them, they change the system – wasn’t the exact purpose of the computer parts of the system to counter the human flaws?! And lets not forget the poll voters reactions to overall record regardless of who played who and the ‘need’ to move teams down when they lose.
- Some of the computer systems are really, really bad. Sagarin’s is the best example of this – play a round robin format, and the whole conference is elevated under his model. Really, with Sagarin’s model, no more needs to be said on this.
That’s why I think any model that involves subjectivity or the computer ratings is a bad one. If I were King of CFB, I’d force alignment into 8 16 team conferences and only conference champs make the playoffs. That’s 4 games in round one that can be aligned by region ( so the Rose gets their match up and travel is limited ), two bowls can ‘rehost’ round two, and a third bowl can ‘rehost’ the NCG. Round one on Jan 1st and a week between each round.
Will it happen? No. But until it does, we’re always going to have these problems.
yeah, and this solution is horrible in my mind....
please, no more larger conferences. No more ridiculous assumptions that the conferences are equal.
Then remove teams from D1 ball
Either those teams are D1 or they aren’t. If they aren’t, move them out and have fewer conferences. If they are, then they have to have a chance as well and the only non-subjective way for that to happen is an automatic bid for their conference champ like everyone else. And before you say ‘then move them out’, Boise St, Utah, BYU, Houston all come to mind as programs that aren’t typically very good but sometimes can be.
Larger conferences… they are the only way to even out the playing field and move toward a playoff. The more conferences you have, the more ‘scrubs’ you let in or you find the need for a subjective ( ie voting ) system to determine who is in or out which would solve nothing. By moving to larger conferences, you average out the quality of in conference play moreso just by sheer volume and its less troublesome to invite 1-2 scrub conference champs than 6 of them.
If any part of a ‘solution’ involves polls, voting, committees, or the like, its a failure because its subjective. If any part of a ‘solution’ counts certain teams as D1 teams yet leaves them out of the picture, its also a failure and prone to lawsuits.
The only solution that would be free of lawsuits and subjectivity is a playoff based on set criteria that is the same for everyone ( ie. conference champs ) and not subjective in anyway and the only way you are going to accomplish that is to shrink the number of conferences participating. Anything less is just more of the same.
you're right in that regard
Because the Pac 12 and Big 10 want that beauty contest because they know they cannot win it on the field.
But in the same token, why discuss new ways to get the same results? I’d rather discuss a real solution than a new way to play under a broken system.
and i'm saying the system isn't broken
it’s not perfect, but it’s not broken. I’m fine with the system now. I think it’d be better with a plus one, or better with the old bowls and no BCS. I think a full blown playoff is the worst of all worlds.
I had an unbroken turd this morning
Unbroken means that much, hunh? Just b/c something isn’t an unbroken, still doesn’t mean it’s not a piece of shit.
"The 2011 Tigers, on the field at least, are boring. See target, swing war club, rinse the brains and skull fragments off and repeat." - Billy Gomila
by Curtis Bleaux on Dec 5, 2011 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Why is a playoff so awful?
Every major sport uses some form of a playoff, as does every other level of football. Do you think there are too many schools for a playoff?
There are twice as many 5A schools in Texas as there are D1-A universities, and they make a playoff work.
A haiku, by Deadpool: I hate broccoli / And think it totally sucks / Why is it not meat?
Robert Griffin for Heisman
His team got blown out by Texas a&m and Okstate. When he got hurt for one half the backup QB came in three TDs passes.
The contact that takes place when our defense is on the field is very sincere ~ Les Miles
Dirk Nowitzki's Flamingo Fade away is this generation's Sky Hook
I think that's why everyone wanted to end up with 4 major conferences
It provides a hybrid playoff that would work with what we have now.
18 teams/conference
4 home/road games a year for your division
Division winners play for a conference title
You’re left with 4 conference champions who play a 4 team playoff, while you can let the rest of the country play bowl games as usual. Find a way to make it work for the little guys to get into the 4 major bowls if they are worthy and it might work.
This was a great read...
The sole purpose of having games played out before our eyes is to crown an objective champion. Not a champion based on a hunch or conventional wisdom… Games are played to allow teams the right to objectively succeed. The BCS works in direct opposition of that goal by relying two-thirds of their formula on the most biased possible sources: the people that promote the game (media) and the people that compete in the game (coaches).
Like you said above… if we were starting from scratch and someone suggested this system, it would be ridiculed. How we let it get this far is hard to comprehend.
I'm quite charismatic.
We can't start from scratch
The biggest problem is that we can’t just tear it down and start again. It’s time to accept the realities of the situation and propose not the best objective system in a perfect world, but the best system that the powers that be will possibly agree to.
A plus one is the best we’re going to get, so let’s also try and make it the best plus one we can. There’s already support for the plus one from actual decision makers (Slive), and it’s certainly a better system than the BCS. And Chris Peterson today is now publicly calling for a selection committee. He’s powerless, but it’s nice to see a well-known coach speaking out on the issue.
Moving forward, the question is not “what do you want?” but “what can we get?” Let’s stop wheel spinning and start coming up with a proposal the AD’s will actually support.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
I've liked the BCS in the past
But this system hasn’t preserved the bowls. It has destroyed them. Or rather, it has been unwittingly complicit in the neutering of the bowls. No bowl game matters anymore except for the BCSNCG.
I propose a different solution, however. Just get rid of the BCS. Leave everything exactly the way it is, except with no BCS and no BCSNCG. Just go back to the way things were 20 years ago, with no official national championship.
Father. Husband. Lawyer. Nerd.
I'd be fine with that as well
But I think there is a demand for a national title game.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Absolutely.
Play all year with no winner at the end? That’s like T-ball. Unamerican.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
But I tried to get as close to pre-BCS as I could
There was no Big East tie in then, either.
I like the old bowls, even if the Big 12 has moved from the Orange to the Fiesta. Just keep the old bowls and then play one more game. That’s my proposal in a sentence.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
I actually proposed the same thing on RBR not long ago.
Most felt that it’s better to have two games designated as semifinals. I could see that side of it as well since somebody could get an easier draw in the bowl that makes themselves look prettier for the final vote. Nothing is going to be perfect.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
This would be my preferred solution
but I think Poseur’s is much more likely.
The BCS is infinitely better than pre-BCS
I thought everyone agreed to this, no?
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
Nope
The regular season used to matter. As did conference titles. I really miss great cross-regional games all through September instead of just one or two.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
The only time the regular season didn't matter was this year. And it was one game.
I think I’ll get over it.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
No, it happens EVERY year
It’s not just the title game, it’s the other bowls. The conference title has been devalued. Go watch the Pony Exce$$ doc again — SMU played for a tie to ensure a conference title instead of going for two and risking the SWC title but gaining a shot at the national title. That would never, ever, EVER happen today.
Additionally, cross-regional games between good teams used to be common. Now they are the exception. Schedules have gotten progressively weaker, and it’s teams gaming the BCS. It has been awful for the regular season. The BCS has watered down the regular season. And this year isn’t special in that regard.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
If this is a watered down regular season in your opinion
Then what do you call every other sport?
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
At least they have good games
The Patriots can’t manipulate their schedule to only play the teams in their division and then the worst teams in other divisions plus some CFL teams. The NCAA regular season might have more “meaning” but its coming at the cost of quality.
Baseball doesn’t allow the Yankees to schedule a bunch of games against the Nationals, Astros, Padres, and 45 minor league teams. The Yankees could post a gaudy out of division record, but it would be meaningless. That’s what we’re doing in the BCS era.
LSU played a great schedule, but let’s look at Alabama, who I think played a better than average OOC schedule – they played Penn St (traditional power having a somewhat down year), Kent St (MAC), North Texas (Sun Belt), and Georgia Southern (FCS). Essentially, one-third of their schedule is exhibition games.
Teams used to play one, maybe two patsies. Now, it’s out of control.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
We have good games too
It’s just that most of them happen in conference.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the face of the Alabama fanbase, the Manager of the blog RollBamaRoll.com, and the kind of person Alabama fans get their football perspective from:
"Been saying it for six f**king years now...That g**damn hurricane just wasn’t big enough." - Outsidethesidelines, Manager, RollBamaRoll.com
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/12/3/2607240/sec-championship-game-open-thread#
outsidethesidelines@gmail.com
...which tells us nothing about how those teams would do OOC.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
And that's worse than it used to be
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
I self-indulgently tweet @ATVSPoseur
Les Mils SEC coach of the year Honey badger D player of the year
http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205342468
The contact that takes place when our defense is on the field is very sincere ~ Les Miles
Dirk Nowitzki's Flamingo Fade away is this generation's Sky Hook
Wow
Honestly surprised to see Miles win the award over Franklin from Vandy. Not that I didn’t think Les deserved it just as much, but the “Young energetic coach comes and makes a big splash at bottom-dweller, takes them from 2-10 to respectability” narrative usually wins out. Very happy for Les.
If Mathieu had not won the award, it would have been a sham. There’s no player like him in college football today. He’s like the cornerback version of Barry Sanders.
I like your system but I would...
change it from a selection committee to an AP Poll after the bowls determining the championship game. With the simple rule that if they lost their BCS bowl, they can’t play in the championship even if they are ranked number 1 or 2. A committee, while it seems objective, takes things like sales, fans, and “school brands” into account.
Side note: ESPN is the biggest problem with college football today.
LSU is an 800 lb gorilla. With a chainsaw as a penis.
I think everyone is forgetting one major development
apart from a brief mention by actioncuse. And it is a development which can meet just about all of the critical needs expressed above. I also strongly agree (a) that we can’t start from scratch, (b) that the needs / desires of the major bowls have to be accounted for, or else progress will be blocked, and © that there is a groundswell of demand for some kind of playoff system. But I think there is a way to do all of this.
The development is, the move to 16 team conferences. It is happening, the current realignment status is just a pause on the move to super-conferences. And I seriously expect that there will only be 4 of them at the end of the day. There will still be lots of other minor conferences, as well as independents. And that’s fine.
The solution is to create an 8 team playoff (as to how, I’ll come back to that), comprised of the conference champion of the 4 super-conferences, plus 4 at-large slots which are allocated to the highest ranked teams which did not get a place via their CCG. (Until ther are 4 super-conferences, an interim rule applies: Until a conference reaches 16 teams, it has no guaranteed place and that slot remains an at-large slot – thus giving the conferences the incentive to get to 16 – yes, there will be a bloodbath for a while, but the end result will be worth it.)
With 4 super-conferences, the existing BCS bowl tie-ins will change. Each BCS bowl will align itself with one of the super-conferences, e.g. Sugar Bowl with the SEC (I am assuming the SEC is one of, if not the first, of the super-conferences), Rose Bowl with the PAC-16, etc. The 8 chosen teams will play in the 4 BCS bowls, seeded according to their final rankings (1 v 8, 2 v 7, etc.). This can result in a tie-in being missed so the choice rotates, i.e. 1 year the SEC winner might be playing the PAC winner in the Sugar Bowl, next time the Rose Bowl gets to choose first, etc. But the 4 BCS bowls get the 4 quarter finals. All are played on Jan 1 or 2 (i.e. 2 BCS games each day). 6 or 7 days later are the semi finals, and 6 or 7 days days later the NCG. These could be at the same grounds (just as the NCG currently rotates around the BCS bowl grounds), and/or the NCG could be at a different ground like the Superbowl is today. All of the other teams (other than the 8 in the playoffs) will play in bowls just as now.
This only adds 2 extra games to what are played today (the semi finals), and 1 extra week (the NCG would be a week later than now).
The clamor for a playoff would be satisfied, as would the demand for reward for winning a (super-) conference. The 4 at-large slots give plenty of opportunity for deserving teams to get in. Yes, there still has to be a ranking system of some sort, and that can certainly be improved on what exists today, but as 4 teams get places at a lower level (i.e. quarter finals) this will be less controversial.
And, most importantly, this works well for the major bowls. The move to super-conferences is happening, they have no control over it and so they have to move with that. This allows them to maintain their prestige and their (new) tie-ins, and perhaps it gives them even more money than now (e.g. if the semi-finals and the NCG are rotated around the 4 BCS bowl grounds, then instead of getting 1 extra game (the NCG) every 4 years they would get 3 extra games every 4 years (or at least 2, if the NCG can go further afield). And, of course, it preserves the existing bowl system (more or less). I also think it pretty well meets the need to contain the CFB season (only 1 extra week with only 1 game), and it doesn’t get in the way of finals – in fact the December gap for finals actually helps teams get healthy for the playoffs. The move to super-conferences make a huge difference in facilitating all of this.
I know there are some wrinkles which need to be ironed out, but I really believe it isn’t beyond the wit of man to take this system and make it work, meeting all reasonable needs and objections.
But I’ll let y’all tell me why I’m wrong about that…
I think as long as Texas and Oklahoma stay together
there ain’t gonna be no superconference business.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Poseur, I dont have time for all the comments, I just want to say "much love"
UGA and Clemson in the Orange Bowl? That’d be sold out in 10 minutes. TKK would probably commit a felony for that to happen.
And I am all for polls and bowls with old tie ins. We had much better games then. I can remember more of those games than I remember of the BCS games of last year.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
I would not have a problem with your proposal
Sounds similar to the plus one advocated by the SEC several years ago, but rejected by several conferences, includingthe Big XII. Not laughing, but irony is so…..ironic.
So much truth here
I’m sure nobody could agree with every detail of this, but there are so many good points.
I have two major, longtime irritations about the BCS.
1. Evolving “guidelines” that evolve only when the guidelines are disrupted. It’s the “hadn’t thought of that possibility” rule.
2. It seems designed to maintain “sanctity” of the bowls, but really doesn’t.
I also hate the fact there is a system, flawed as it may be, that takes itself so seriously, but is ignored completely once the “top 2” are in place. You alluded to this with the example of Kansas State and Michigan State being jumped in favor of Virginia Tech and Michigan. If the process itself really matters to help determine the title-game qualifiers, it should actually mean something when postseason bids are determined.
Loved your example of how K-State got snubbed because of “traveling poorly,” then sold out a “lesser” venue.
Generally speaking, the “championship” matches two highly qualified teams. It’d be difficult not to do that. (I’d venture to guess any two teams in the top 10 in a given year would provide an entertaining, competitive centerpiece.
So be it. Why do people assume that viewers wouldn’t want to watch a true matchup between the 7th & 8th place teams, regardless of “tradition” or “name recognition”? As if college football fans think only a half-dozen schools play major college football?
This system elevates teams like Boise State as a “contender,” pretends they have a shot at a title, uses any excuse to downgrade them if they lose to anyone, still ranks such teams in the top 10 with regularity, then catapults someone else into that position.
Why should we pay attention to this sham as it’s happening, if most of it is irrelevant, inaccurate, unscientific or window-dressing?
What's going on in here?
I’m resisting the urge to spurt out, “Cliff Notes, Please!”
This is a great discussion for a 5 in the morning read while trying to begin work. I really need to wait to read this blog at lunchtime when production is not at stake.
Great conversation, guys!
Booing = farting. Booing can’t come with caveats and neither can farting. . .You drop that bomb and it’s going everywhere, spreading out evenly across the kill zone. You can try and blame it on someone or something else, but no one is buying. Just don’t do it. - tigerarchitect (2011)
Your distinction between resume test and power test is good.
I’ve always preferred the power test, even if we had beaten you. However, as you point out, there are good arguments for both tests. Other than your preference for the resume test, I agree with your post. The Bowl analysis and the modest proposal were great.
"The same things win today that have always won, and they will win years from now. The only difference is the losers have a whole new bunch of excuses why they don’t win or can’t win."-Bear Bryant
Robot Chicken Star Wars should be canon.
by the thin red line on Dec 8, 2011 2:11 AM CST reply actions

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