Why We Suck at Basketball
Well, thank God it's nearly baseball season, so we can now stop gawking at the train wreck that is the LSU basketball team. We didn't exactly have high hopes for this season, but I don't think anyone expected the team to be THIS bad. Heck, I was even hoping we might make the NIT this year, though I knew it wasn't a sure thing. Instead, this team is simply wretched.
So, how did it get here and how do we get out of this hole? Why is LSU basketball this bad? Oh, let's count the ways.
THE UPPERCLASSMEN VOID. There is not a single senior on the roster. Not one. There are five juniors on the team, only three of whom were on the team last year. Let's call this the core of the team. You don't need these guys to be studs, but you need some sort of contribution from your veterans. Storm Warren, Chris Bass, and Garrett Green have combined for 22 starts out of a possible 75. At least they are in the rotation, but only Storm has double digit starts or averages at least 20 minutes a game (and it's exactly 20 minutes).
Bass actually distributes the ball decently (62-37 Assist to Turnover ratio), but his complete inability to shoot has curtailed his effectiveness . He's shooting 28.8% from the field. Not a misprint. You can't play big time college basketball and shoot below 30%. Green can at least rebound decently, but he's not exactly a playmaker underneath either. The three core players on this team aren't quite giving us nothing, but it's pretty close.
WE CAN'T SHOOT STRAIGHT. LSU is shooting 40.0% on the season, which isn't horrible, but it's not great. But dig slightly deeper. Four of LSU's top five scorers shoot under 40% from the field, including the top two. LSU does not have a single guard on the team shooting at least 40%, regardless of the number of attempts. The only way LSU can score reliably is to take layups on the inside, and LSU lacks size on the inside. In fact, no listed center on the roster has played a single minute this year. No defense has any reason to respect LSU's outside shot, which means they can pack the lane, making it even more difficult to get easy looks.
LOUISIANA DOESN'T CRANK OUT PLAYERS. As Paul often points out, the most important factor in recruiting is proximity. The top Louisiana high school athletes are playing football, not basketball. LSU only has six Louisiana players on its roster. Our two leading scorers both come from out of state. It's not like Louisiana is completely barren, but it does lack top tier impact players.
LOSING BEGETS LOSING. Pretend you are a top recruit from Louisiana. You can go to any school in the country, but you want to give the local school a look. You go to a game and not only do you see a dismal team, but you see empty stands. You pick up the paper the next day, and there is virtually no coverage of the most recent debacle, as the media focuses on football or the upcoming baseball season. Ask yourself, why on earth would you come to LSU? What are we selling right now?
Also, the one-and-done rules favor the basketball powers. If LSU is fortunate enough to ever get that sort of elite talent, you can't build a program around him. He's gone in a year. But honestly, LSU isn't going to get the guy because the elite schools now get their pick of the elite talents. OK, it was always this way, but UNC used to at least be limited by keeping guys on the roster. But now, the elite schools constantly have open roster spots, and even playing time to sell to big time recruits. The roster turnover at major schools means they need to keep getting these top players, and it further freezes a school like LSU out. We're not getting the next John Wall, and even if we did, the program likely wouldn't improve longterm.
BASEBALL. But you know what? We could overcome all of these factors if we just invested in basketball as fans and as an administration. But it's not going to happen because we have baseball. Football lasts until January, and recruiting can tide you over to the first week of February. First and foremost, LSU is a football school and we treat other sports as the dead time waiting for the next football game. Baseball starts this weekend, which means the average LSU fan really only had to pay attention to basketball for a month at the most, a week if the fan is obsessed with recruiting.
At the end of the day, we don't really care that basketball stinks. Would it be great if we could go back to the days of Dale Brown and the Deafdome? Sure. But we're now invested in the baseball team instead. That's now the sport that gets us through the long dark period before football begins.
Basketball is dying at LSU. And baseball killed it.
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How I judge college basketball teams...
1. Could Brian Beshara make this team better? If yes goto 3.
2. This team has a shot to be pretty good. End.
3. This team must blow. End.
I think we all know what the answer to question 1 is for this team.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
Good night… he would be an upgrade at every freaking position. It doesn’t get worse.
by Big McLargeHuge on Feb 15, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
Can't stress enough
How much the lack of home-grown talent hurts the program.
Whether Trent Johnson is the man to get things going or not, building a real basketball program at LSU is not a quick build.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
a couple of questions
1) DIdn’t Trent basically not recruit guys his first year and a half here because of APR worries down the road. That is looking like a terrible decision. Who wouldn’t trade 2-4 seniors on the team this year for the possibility that we might lose a scholarship a year or two down the road.
2) DIdn’t Trent come here because he thought he could recruit better in Louisiana? Was he that wrong about it, or has the talent suddenly disappeared. A lot of great basketball players have come from Louisiana.
3) Fans not caring goes way, way back – and at least part of it is the ups and downs of the Brady regime. You never knew what to expect, so why bother caring that much.
I’m not sure baseball really explains it. Baseball is of course massively popular at LSU. But come on – 93,000 people go to football game. Surely there are enough LSU fans to have 7,000 go to baseball games and 10,000 go to basketball games. People don’t go because the team is terrible, and it is usually terrible – for what – 10 years now – with a year or two of exceptions in between.
I don’t have any solutions. And I don’t particularly want Trent to go. But it has to count as a massive black mark that we haven’t had a point guard since his first season here that was worth anything and he hasn’t recruited anyone there. Miles got into a bind with QBs- but he made a serious effort to fix it.
LSU is never going to be elite Basketball
And maybe the one & done is really hurting us by funneling all of the elite players into the higher programs thus widening the gaps between the have and have nots. And baseball’s reign will probably keep LSU from spending the resources to get to that elite level.
But that’s no reason for LSU to be this bad. Louisiana may not be a basketball haven, but there is enough talent here to be better than this. LSU’s level ought to enough to contend for making the tourney every year or at least going to NIT. To be out of contention so early is not acceptable at any school that takes pride in its athletics.
As for the fans, the problem is simple. LSU’s schedule pre-conference is so pathetic that there’s no reason to show up, especially for students who at that time are dealing with the end of the semester or are on vacation (which is usually not in Baton Rouge). Students will care if LSU shows that its fielding a good team, but if they’re not then students will stay away to go to Mardi Gras parades and the like until baseball comes, and then go to that. Kids in Louisiana can find plenty of other things to do in late January or February then go to LSU basketball games if the LSU team is no good (and their opponent is no good either).
LSU can get better, and when it does the fans will return.
I'm proud of my damn strong football team. Have a great day!
Didn't gorilla ball & shaq coexist?
Chris Jackson & Joey Belle? Shaq & Todd Walker? I think there’s still enough support for all. In the 1 & done era, all it takes is 1 or 2 good recruits to turn around the program. Let’s hope the kid from Pickering & mikie are the next we can pair up.
by Kellertigerfan on Feb 15, 2011 7:51 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Sure they can co-exist
But only when your football coach’s last name is Archer, Hallman, or DiNardo.
I believe Pittman was one of the first to key onto the fact that if football didn’t suck in the 80’s and 90’s, baseball would never have emerged as the monster it now is. The fact is it completely dominates the spring calendar now. It was brought up above in the comments that surely we have enough for 7K for baseball and 10K for basketball, but last season baseball averaged over 10,600 in paid attendance (i know, actual numbers are always lower) in a park that despite expansion still only has seats for 10,100. The money has moved to baseball and it will take a long time before it can be convinced to move back.
That, and raising ticket prices and introducing seat licenses the year after you go 2-14 in league play is not how you win back fans.
Managing Editor/Chief Lackey-And The Valley Shook THE LSU Tigers Blog of the Week for 52,136 Weeks in a Row and Counting
I believe Pittman was one of the first to key onto the fact that if football didn’t suck in the 80’s and 90’s, baseball would never have emerged as the monster it now is.
I think that was Poseur. And while I think he was right about the football suckage powering baseball team fandom…I don’t buy that we don’t have good basketball fans because baseball is too popular. LSU is located in a city that is much larger than most other SEC schools. There really isn’t any excuse for people not going to the games. It’s not even like baseball and basketball step on each other very often from a scheduling standpoint.
The fact is that the “one and dones” and the 64 team NCAA tourney has killed college basketball. This is why I am a BCS supporter for football. The NCAA tourney started out as a 4 team playoff, and now look at it. The regular season is meaningless, and casual fans can’t keep up with the roster turnover. Only the teams that are consitently good enough to turn casual fans into die hard fans will be able to fill their arena’s on a consistent basis.
"I know the quarterback has a strong arm, but...I mean the ball's not gonna outrun ME" --PP7
We've both said it before...
… but I have no idea who said it on the site first. We’ll go with Pittman. But I think it’s clear the fall of football allowed for the rise of baseball. We were desperate for anything, and baseball’s rise almost directly coincided with basketball’s fall.
I don’t think it’s just an attendence issue. It’s an interest issue. The AD is willing to invest heavily in baseball because we care and it turns a profit. Basketball, I believe, does not. Even when we were good under Dale Brown, the PMAC, LSU could never be described as a basketball school*
*This is where we pause to reflect how awesome are all-time starting five is. For a school that’s never won a title (do we really count the pre-WWII one?), we’ve had a staggering array of talent. Any all-time LSU team has Shaq, Petit, Jackson, and Maravich… all among the greats in college (and pro) history. You basically get to choose your personal favorite for #5 and can’t screw it up. Hell, I’ll pick Marcus Thornton, who was SEC PoY. People, that’s a five that matches up with anyone, including the Dukes and Kentuckys of the world.
I don’t think the tourney killed college basketball, as the NCAA really hit its peak in the mid-80s as the field expanded from 48 to 64 (the perfect number). I do agree the one and done rule has been about the worst thing to happen to college basketball ever. It’ also bad for the NBA, but we’ll ignore that.
Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
And The Valley Shook!
Dale Brown's success
I think it’s also important to remember that it also came at a cost.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Feb 16, 2011 8:50 AM CST up reply actions
Very true
We had to watch gert for years
by Kellertigerfan on Feb 16, 2011 5:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
At most schools
football (mostly) and basketball fund the athletic department. Baseball is lucky to break even. Due to our success in the 90’s, LSU is in the enviable position of having a baseball program that turns a profit. If they can get bball to get good, fan interest (and $$$) will come and our revenues will soar even higher.
No! That's just so wrong...
You can’t expect to pack the house or even have a respectable crowd when the product you’re selling is so inferior. This has nothing to do with football or baseball. Let Coach PM stink it up over in the box and the crowd will drift away too. No, this lands squarely at the feet of Joe Alleva. We hire an AD from a basketball powerhouse, (you would think he’d know a little something about how to market a basketball program) and he simply looks the other way and allows this mediocrity (it’s actually much less than mediocre) to exist. Brady couldn’t get it done, TJ can’t seem to get it together either. Win a few games, maybe the occasional upset, put a good product on the floor and people will spend their hard earned dollar and harder earned leisure time to not only support it, but get excited about it. Who wants to go sit through this? And why would they? Buck up, Joe! This is LSU, dammit! Act like it!
by Boom.shaka.laka on Feb 15, 2011 8:34 PM CST reply actions
Um
However it’s working out, you can’t fault Alleva for making the Johnson hire. He was unquestionably a hot coach at the time who had won at Stanford and Nevada.
Sometimes a hire doesn’t work out. Which isn’t to say it still can’t for TJ.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
by Billy Gomila on Feb 15, 2011 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
"If you build it they will come"
(Or something like that)
LSU spends good money on TJ (I think). LSU just added a state of the art (I’ve heard) basketball facility. A few years ago they renovated the PMAC. I think the administration is interested in basketball being good.
In the Big Baby, Tyrus Thomas year and in TJ’s first year, when we were good, we were consistently getting 10,000-12,000 in reported attendance.
To sum-up: I think LSU is actively trying to field a good team. People will attend the games if we are good.
by Gas_House_Gorillas on Feb 16, 2011 9:33 AM CST reply actions
I definitely think LSU can be successful in basketball
But it’s a long-term build. It’s not like football or baseball where there’s talent and infrastructure on hand to make things happen quickly.
And if you follow hoops recruiting, it’s not like it’s as simple as snap your hands and starting to recruit with the Kentucky’s and the Ohio State’s and the North Carolina’s.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook

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